Ketraar wrote:Seriously, I dont see the point in spending that much effort in properly porting old plots that most have done numerous times already. If you want the goodies, just cheat them in, done.
Time is much better invested in making new stuff than fiddling with old stuff. Besides if you really want to play them, just fire up TC and play them, then move on to AP. Really cant see the point in this tbh.
Still anyone is free to wreck up their game as they see fit, don't let me discourage you.
MFG
Ketraar
I can give you a reason. The AP plot is not fun due to the broken war sector mechanics. So....if one wants to play a plot line in AP that isn't fundamentally broken due to mechanics, one must play TC. If you want more information, see this thread: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=312948
If one is to play TC, why not play TC with the latest patches (AP)?
Last edited by Dakota- on Thu, 29. Dec 11, 19:55, edited 1 time in total.
Ketraar wrote:Seriously, I dont see the point in spending that much effort in properly porting old plots that most have done numerous times already. If you want the goodies, just cheat them in, done.
Time is much better invested in making new stuff than fiddling with old stuff. Besides if you really want to play them, just fire up TC and play them, then move on to AP. Really cant see the point in this tbh.
Still anyone is free to wreck up their game as they see fit, don't let me discourage you.
MFG
Ketraar
I can give you a reason. The AP plot is not fun due to the broken war sector mechanics. So....if one wants to play a plot line in AP that isn't fundamentally broken due to mechanics, one must play TC.
If one is to play TC, why not play TC with the latest patches (AP)?
And I would add to that that there is much that AP "fixes" in the game that TC sorely needed. Some of us really like playing in the TC universe but want the fixes of AP.
I had considered also going back further to add older plots (e.g. X3R) in addition to unifying TC and AP and creating new stuff between and after, however I was under the impression this would not be allowed as such due to use of assets from another (seperate) game?
I'm definatly aiming to make the universe more dynamic after Ive got the basics done, including events that can adversly effect the player (e.g. when war happens and they have to choose if they like they commonwealth or terran assets better )
Adding the plot for Reunion probably would not infringe so long as it is scripted from scratch, assets are another matter (voice and models). If one were to stick to the story only I see it unlikely anyone would object to it's inclusion.
I was recently thinking of playing through TC again before taking on Albion Prelude. But if a mod like this was released I would likely play again when released, it would be nice to just have the whole X3 story in one play through in one game.
I am not sure how anyone would tackle all aspects of the X3 versions. Sectors are found or changed, ships/stations invented, racial ties change among many other things. When one sits down and thinks about it, a lot changes and it would be hard work taking all this into account when making a modification that essential welds it all into one version.
If anyone managed to make `X3: Unified´ I would most definitely use it.
Well it would need a good look at the jobs and god engines, on how to essentially prevent them doing certain things. Not to many changes in the X3:R to AP timeline though I guess, X2 and before could be more difficult due to changes in the ships and equipment lineup.
I had considered also going back further to add older plots (e.g. X3R) in addition to unifying TC and AP and creating new stuff between and after,
It is a dream I have had for some time....
...Just one big adventure from BTF through whatever the latest/or last version will be. all in just one game.
You start with a small map and gradually expand as you progress through all the story line.
The main problem I foresee is losing property in sectors as they gradually get removed from the map...
or... loosing it all , because a new map has to be deployed.
eg... What happens to the ANH sector if we build in it before it has been taken over by the various faction that own them in AP ?
............
I have had a good afternoon and evening play-testing.
Been building up Trade rep. Getting ready to build Boron notoriety.
Omicron Lyrea Terran plot message arrived as it should,with OL on the map.
Won't be on again until tomorrow evening.
Got to play Dad for a few hours.
edit
X2 and before could be more difficult due to changes in the ships and equipment lineup.
We could just use the X3 models or nearest equivalent.
The main problem I see is that in each of the games, you start from nothing and work up to an empire. Starting from BTF, or even just X3:R will see most players having huge empires by the time they hit TC or AP, and as such those plots might end up redundant. Without the need to build up the player wealth, the plots from the latter games will just be a point and click, achieve the objectives exercise.
Saying that, if it can work, I'd definitely play it.
The players status in regards to money and ships is irrelevant.
If one followed the plot only from X3 - TC - AP no doubt they would end up with several million credits a couple of stations and several ships. An empire? Probably not, unless they actively set out to build one instead of playing the plot.
As with every game, it would surely be up to the player how beefy their ship or fleet is for that matter. Just because one can spend fifty hours getting a strong ship or earning one from the previous games plot, does not mean they have to use it. Unless they want to, X3 is about choice after all.
One solution would be to make the missions more dynamic, so that if the player has a single fighter, a corvette group, or a carrier and a full complement of escorts and fighters the plot charecters would react differently, and the player would take a different part in the battle. The Xenon, Khaak and Terran wars all have a lot of scope for such things.
As for sectors that are unknown/pirate and later claimed (even just in TC -> AP transition), I guess for the most part letting the player truely claim it is not such a bad idea and in mission critical cases somthing like forced repossession would work.
A lot is dependent on amount of help and time required for specific things of course. I would also personally like additional ships to play with, and definatly fixes to some issues, shame SRM isnt coming to AP, never really liked the XRM weapon rearrangement.
SyncViews wrote: never really liked the XRM weapon rearrangement.
Maybe there could be some modularization to the weapon stuff if you and Paul from XRM came to an understanding.
Thing is, some of the things you guys are planning overlaps e.g. Paul seems to be planning on radically changing the war sectors and obviously you seem like you would be in the middle of that too.
If you guys could collaborate, maybe things would be "easier" on both of you. Needless to say this is a desirable and potentially challenging project.
Personally, I plan to download XRM when it's ready but really want the capability of TC as well. To make them compatible or somehow merged would be awesome.
TC in the title would be inaccurate if it included all the X3 versions. Also using TC in the title would be misleading as it would require Albion Prelude, AP might be better.
X3: (Instert title)
Would be the best compromise as it may encompass all X3 versions. Also, seems it is unifying the three story arcs a word played off that or a synonym as the suffix to X3 would probably be more appropriate.
Anyway, naming a mod before it is really under way is kind of frivolous. It would be much more important to plan how the various missions would meld together and what sector changes are absolutely critical to the plot.
"X3 Convergence" for a mega mod merging the best of the community content, something I've been trying to do for a long time. AP throws a wrench in that with having to fix or overhaul stuff in addition to compatibility patches. Not sure if the "sanitized patch" approach for XRM-DDTC-XTC convergence would work anymore either. Not that I can work on it until the DVD is released (can't use Steam, dialup).
Nice name but how will you go about merging X3R into AP seems abit of a long shot.... it will require all the greatest X modding minds in history. But it will be cool to see a Julian Brennan start
Depends on whether the "hard parts" are reworked into regular missions, which are much, much easier to implement. If this were my project I think I'd do the following:
-- Mod Support: XRM increases the ware class of jump drives, fighters cannot jump, period. To compensate adjusting mission rewards to ensure the player is given enough money to buy and equip a M6 prior to the first mission requiring a jump drive. Jumping NPC's could use a transport, M6, or M8, small groups of fighters could use a TM, and obviously M7 carriers and M1's could have a more significant role for deploying large numbers of fighters. Missiles are also far more deadly, surviving any battle scenario in anything weaker than a M3+ or M6 isn't likely, plot NPC's need better ships. Also M6's can dock M5's, useful for entering asteroid interiors and maybe special drones or other plot specific uses.
-- Player Capital Ship and Fleet Usage: Almost the entire campaign assumed the player was in a fighter, this needs adjustment to make it playable in any big or huge ship with a fighter docked. None of the missions took other player ships into consideration, not that they were of much help in too many cases, but some adjustments to compensate seem necessary.
-- Manning Turrets: Several escort-like missions have Julian serving as a gunner, while this seems possible with custom ships, scenes, cockpits, and scripting, the original gameplay really wasn't that much fun, a recreation won't be much better. Instead replace it with an "enhanced" escort mission, with more flexibility for different player ship types and number of ships, smarter scripted enemy behavior, other NPC escorts, longer distance and mission duration, and other improvements.
-- Military Transport and Cityscape Chase (mission 3?): This is pointless, it was one of the most hated missions, and the performance problems resulted in a lot of people skipping it anyway. Instead have Julian escort the military transport in his own fighter, then remain in orbit to intercept Yaki spawning at gates before they reach the planet atmosphere (with random assistance from police/military), and eventually have a TM jump in at the very edge of the atmosphere to launch the fighters that steal the stone. During pursuit Julian's fighter would be destroyed along with the transport, leading to the same spacewalk rescue by the Truelight Seeker. Provide a replacement ship via either in-game use of salvage insurance to spawn/clone a replacement, or have the Goners provide a salvaged advanced M6.
-- Asteroid and Station Interiors: These use special world spaces for a larger interior than exterior and no interference from random NPC's in sector. Most of this could be recreated with special sectors but some of the original stuff wouldn't work, and overall it would take a lot more work than its worth. Instead, use special prop asteroid or station models with tunnels, similar to the Holy Asteroid mod but larger, and reduce the scope/scale of those mission segments to match. Compensate with expanded mission segments before and after the interior segment.
-- X3-R to X3-TC: Missions and other continuity adjustments are needed to bridge the gap between R and TC, not sure what off hand, needs research. Some plots would need adjustment, most of it is obvious and easy, like not sending Julian to search for Julian during the hub.
-- Maps: While annoyingly tedious, the changes from R to TC to AP would need to be extracted to a bunch of new maps with a MD script which slowly applies it to the game world as the plots progress. Variants of this could be made compatible with XRM, DDTC, and other mods based on the vanilla map (e.g. not XTC).
While briding TC and AP with the existing plots makes sense and is what I plan todo initially, doing so with anything before doesnt really make sense, not least due to the origenal plots being with different player charecters. It would make more sense to create a slightly alternate timeline in those cases.
Regarding new sectors. In my opinion any sector for which there is no clear reason why it used to not be accessable (e.g. broken gate to Albion concept, the Terran gate, and Aldrin) should be on the map from the start as unknown sectors and later claimed.
Either way, the goal right now is to get TC into the AP exe and taking advantage of new features, and find a way to bridge some of the key plot gaps. What to add plot wise before/after that and any other changes I think can wait for a larger mod. Perhaps also change some of the TC/AP plots, e.g. should a player turn up with a fleet for patrol/escort.
I understand having new sectors accessible from the start,
But in the case of ANH plot,the new ANH sectors are all in AP,but not all in TC.
Maybe you could have them all mapped,as in AP,but Unknown.
Then you decide ,when doing the ANH plot ,which one you would like as Home base.
When AP full map is invoked,have an exception that lets you keep you home sector.
I do not see why certain sectors have been removed ,or even renamed throughout the series.
I think all sectors should remain unless removed by a plot,as in the Alsrin Plot ,where the Hub was used.
)
but how will you go about merging X3R into AP seems abit of a long shot.... it will require all the greatest X modding minds in history. But it will be cool to see a Julian Brennan start 