Overtuning ships, repair laser and 2nd HQ in TC vanilla. Exploit howto with pictures)

[Rhox]

EDIT: I now have tested whether it is possible to replicate these infamous weapons this way. Unfortunately, it isn't

It is possible and this is how the whole thing actually got invented in the first place. Overtuning was just a second application of the same method. Instead of EQ dock you just need to use another ship with PALC being available either on that ship or the ship that is the target of your CLS2 pilot.
2 PALC in the entire game is the main reason for using this exploit.

Ah, it works like a charm now . I only did it at an ED, where it will never work. Got 25 PALCs now and am still producing more...

best regards,

Rhox

[Lelouch]

CLS2 is available since 2.X if not earlier, but you definitely need the bonus pack :)

At least patch 2.1 is required for CLS1, CLS2 and CAG. (Turbo Booster can be used in 2.0 but that's about it.)

[kurush]

EDIT: how silly of me, you don't need the Xenon Hub. Player EQd should be fine.

Sadly, player EQ and HUB seem to lack this particular feature. The quantity is getting reset properly. Otherwise, you would already have the above mentioned thread about repair laser posted by me

[Capt_Newbie]

Okies, I think that's installed. Time to try it out...

Have a look in any Split EQd. The last two items should be turbo 1 and turbo 2. If you don't see these, then you don't have the bonus pack correctly installed.

I was about to reply to someone on the last page, noting that Turbo boosters are also something I've never seen in the game, and they would be really useful to have.

It's strange, because I managed to install the fix that upgraded the marine training (even if it nerfed their performance), but even though the computer appears to install 3.1 for me, when I check for updates, it still tells me I haven't got 3.1 yet...

[MarvinTheMartian]

It's strange, because I managed to install the fix that upgraded the marine training (even if it nerfed their performance), but even though the computer appears to install 3.1 for me, when I check for updates, it still tells me I haven't got 3.1 yet...

3.1 does not automatically install the bonus pack, which is required for CLS1&2. Go to the downloads section of the ES site and get the latest bonus pack and install that

[Capt_Newbie]

Downloading now, hopefully. It actually gave me two options, but I rejected the 1.1 to 1.2 one, cuz I wasn't even sure I had '1.1'.

There was also a question mark (literally) about whether I had registered or was logged on, but I could see my profile on the right, and 'posts on topic' under my avatar, so my take would be 'yes, I am registered/logged in'...

3.1... 1.2... not that any of this is confusing...

[Capt_Newbie]

D/l'd and supposedly installed, but I suspect that if the wife doesn't do it, it isn't done properly... she handled 1.0.1 to 3.1... it's very reductive (of my testes).

[philip_hughes]

So I am trying some fun overtunes. A carrack that flies at 240 and turns at 7.2 is fun but only for a short time. Capital combat is a beastie that requires more than speed. If you are too quick and agile for your turrets then they never get a lock on the target ship. A fast capital therefore is only using its capabilities when swatting fighters. Found myself slowing down and turning less for the bigger ships which totally negates the advantages.

Still messing around but I may suggest that any more than 20 overtunes for speed will wreck the game and 10-15 for rudder should be the maximum. My Carrack is ridiculous .(but im keeping it)

[Rhox]

So I am trying some fun overtunes. A carrack that flies at 240 and turns at 7.2 is fun but only for a short time. Capital combat is a beastie that requires more than speed. If you are too quick and agile for your turrets then they never get a lock on the target ship. A fast capital therefore is only using its capabilities when swatting fighters. Found myself slowing down and turning less for the bigger ships which totally negates the advantages.

Still messing around but I may suggest that any more than 20 overtunes for speed will wreck the game and 10-15 for rudder should be the maximum. My Carrack is ridiculous .(but im keeping it)

That recommendation only goes for ships like M7 and M6 but does not apply to slow capitals like M2 or M1 and especially not for the Aran. I needed 80 overtunes to get to a speed of 81 m/s. Regarding rudder, I even needed 200 (!) overtunes to get a turn rate of 1,3 (originally, I had planned for only 1 rpm but I got tired of evaluating the exact number of upgrades for that)...
I'm not going to use the overtune function for creating gamebreaking ships. I just used it to get an Aran with a finally decent speed so I could use it as a really mobile Operation Center. Furthermore, I created a slightly advanced version of the Kestrel (now going 692 m/s) and I might use it to create an advanced Tyr (about 70 m/s speed and a bit more maneuverable; a shame cargo bay extensions don't work or I would have gotten it a 10.000 cargobay )
Also, I would recommend that one uses even less than 15 extensions on fighters...

best regards,
Rhox

[deca.death]

.

Of course, that's what I always claimed - moderation and keeping the game balance.

Vette that goes 128- 180 km/h is ok
Unique vette alternative to springy could go 250
split "Racing dragon" could go the same

M2 from 50 to 70 is OK
M7 from 120 to 160 can pass


You get one unique ship that will add some flavor to game and would be great as personal yacht. You will not have game crashes and stability issues.


I like my advanced centaur, its like big mean fighter, but certainly doesn't feel overpowered.

[glenmcd]

When I first read this thread, I got excited about extending the cargobay. The overtunes on engine and rudder are great of course, but I so enjoy trading (from my personal ship) that I made a couple of changes to my TShips as well as doing the engine/rudder overtunes as per above and now have the following (a work in progress):
Medusa Prototype
speed: 622
rudder: 81
laser regen: 2000 (8 x PBEs last for a minute, take 10 secs to fully recharge)
cargobay: can take XL cargo, size = 10,000,000 units.

I still can't carry stations in my M3 (still trying but doesn't look good), so I'm going to need a TL also (with super upgrades of course). But at least one can dock in the other, and being able to overtune engine, rudder and cargobay means I can select the TL based on something I can't change easily, such as an unimpeded view out of the cockpit (Ryu being worst in this regard and MSF best). With a large enough cargobay, a TL can carry a huge quantity+range of stations, greatly streamlining the building of complexes as well as NPC build missions. I still need to find what stations can be purchased where. I still need to earn the credits to buy the stations. The main difference is that I can complete a mission by doing some set of sub-tasks once, rather than fifty times. Also, I outfit my two ships personally, and do so once per gamestart.

Can you see where this is going? It's decreasing the pressure to micro-manage. You can do more things without requiring a fleet which in turn need refueling which in turn...

The question of game balancing has come up a few times in this thread and I guess for good reason. But don't just think about how you should be limiting your upgrades. Also think about taking on greater challenges, now that you have the tools to make success possible.

Credits:
thanks to Litcube and kurush for getting me thinking about huge cargobays.

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

When I first read this thread, I got excited about extending the cargobay. The overtunes on engine and rudder are great of course, but I so enjoy trading (from my personal ship) that I made a couple of changes to my TShips as well as doing the engine/rudder overtunes as per above and now have the following (a work in progress):
Medusa Prototype
speed: 622
rudder: 81
laser regen: 2000 (8 x PBEs last for a minute, take 10 secs to fully recharge)
cargobay: can take XL cargo, size = 10,000,000 units.

Isn't that a little over the top for a fighter. Why not just improve a TS or TP ship

[glenmcd]

Isn't that a little over the top for a fighter. Why not just improve a TS or TP ship

For actual flying I enjoy the Kestrel most not just for its speed and ability to use a triplex scanner, but because it's "nippy" in fights so I'm challenged to think faster. Besides that, I can't dock a TS/TP in a TL and this is something I can see myself doing often as I enjoy NPC build missions. I really do like the look of the Medusa Prototype ship also.

[MarvinTheMartian]

I dunno. This sounds like it's getting a little silly now and more of a S&M discussion IMHO

The beauty of the X series is the variety of ships, no one ship is perfect at everything otherwise you'd never fly any other ship and exploring the options different ships provide is part of the X experience.

I'm all for having a bit of fun when you're late in the game, or need a break from the Hub plot, but vanilla or not it's still modifying the game from the intended balance by quite a margin.

[philip_hughes]

....but in X3R you could get a limited number of overtunes. I remember flying around in my overtuned xenon k that went at 180 and turned like a corvette. Same deal except your doing it.

[Nanook]

....but in X3R you could get a limited number of overtunes...

Key word limited. You had to make some real decisions on how to use them, and even then, they didn't really have the power to make a real 'uber' ship. This exploit's only limitation is keeping the game from crashing from massive overuse. Huge cargo bays on tiny ships, high speed corvettes that speed and turn like M5's, huff and puff and protest to the contrary all you want, but this is a modded game in everything but name.

[philip_hughes]

I don't know what I'm arguing now....

I don't think its a modded game because you can do it without getting *modified. I do think its an exploit however. I doubt the programmers deliberately left this loophole in. Thats what makes it fun, breaking the rules etc.

I remember back to x2 when I found through the forum you could create ships and edit their speed/maneuverability etc. The Xenon were suddenly hit by a fleet of khaak destroyers that were astonishingly fast and agile. After that, I didn't play the game for 6 months. When I came back I vowed to never modify my games again. The only mod I broke the vow for was the xtended mod which was pretty much an unofficial expansion. The reason why I like this is because i have played for 10 ish years without dipping my toe in modified waters, and its a little refreshing to be able to do "legitimately" what I have resisted doing for a decade.

*edit- Nanook... I would argue that with 1 engine tuning for your lx and the rest of the tunings for 1 capital ship created 2 massively overpowerful ships. Anyways thats a subjective argument:)

[kurush]

Huge cargo bays on tiny ships,

Huge cargo bay is actually impossible. That leaves us with speed and rudder tuning. I found from experience that abusing them produces unusable ships though, so there is not as much difference as you think. I don't even like my Hyperion going 365 now and thinking about capturing or producing one more to tune it to the official limit of Poisoned Paranid start. Not nearly as game breaking as it might look...
And finally, for cloning wares for money please tell me what is the difference between it and NV mining in Kingdom End? On large enough scale they produce similar results (other than Hub shortcut and unlimited PALC, but these two are more of game design oversight anyway. Hub in the way it is related to the HQ quest).

[Nanook]

...
And finally, for cloning wares for money please tell me what is the difference between it and NV mining in Kingdom End? On large enough scale they produce similar results (other than Hub shortcut and unlimited PALC, but these two are more of game design oversight anyway. Hub in the way it is related to the HQ quest).

You can't clone wares for money, unless you use your exploit. Normal 'cloning' requires you to pay the average price for every weapon/shield/item you clone. Nothing is free. If you're referring to the ability to sell unlimited weapons/shields at equipment docks that don't sell them, that's technically not 'cloning' because you still have to produce them in complexes that you bought and set up. Nividium mining, on the other hand, gives you free money, as much as you want, for very little investment. There's a huge difference between that and your so-called weapon 'cloning', whichever one you mean.

Even so, all these other 'exploits' are in the game due to developer will. The one you discovered is obviously a bug due to the CLS software. You should know that this particular bug was in one of the older games, X2 I believe, and it was fixed as soon as Egosoft was able to do so. You didn't need CLS to do it then. And if the devs were still working on TC, I'd bet this particular bug would go away, too.

So bottom line, you're exploiting what's obviously a bug, whereas all your counter examples are actually features that the devs have built into the game.

[Alan Phipps]

It is very interesting to see the opinions on 'vanilla' exploits set out here.

If the use of exploits is purely to give a better single-player game experience then there is little rational argument for a Player actually worrying whether the game is tagged modified or not. However, if the enjoyment comes purely from devising or using methods to 'beat' the rules in unintended ways then remaining vanilla is an essential part of it. Look at the first vanilla captures of the Aran and Deca to see what I mean. Whether there is that much of a challenge for later players who have merely read how to do such things is another matter.

There are also external things you can do to vanilla games that don't act as exploits or mark it modified yet can immensely help your enjoyment (eg Bonus Pack or the 'no tubes complex' mod, etc).

Then there are things that are vanilla yet can either be helpful if used with consideration or can be overused even to the extent of disrupting game balance (eg this exploit, Salvage Insurance, pre-knowledge of the free ship locations, Nividium mining respawns, etc).

Lastly there is the ultimate vanilla hoodwink, the gamesave hex-editor.

It is down the individuals who want to play vanilla 'realistically' to set the limitations to all exploits so as to enhance enjoyment yet without degrading their own appreciation of their vanilla achievements. No-one else can judge that balance for them.