Trump

[Vertigo 7]

You must get Fox "News" in Poland. I've never seen such a blatant Hannity rant on here before from someone not in this country.

Firstly, I will continue to oppose racism here, and anywhere else for that matter. I will stop when it ends or I'm dead. Until then, you can piss off if you don't like it.
Secondly, I will continue to oppose Trump and all he stands for because of the afore mentioned reason as well as the equally important reason of our democracy and the rule of law. If you don't like it, refer to above.

I'm not comparing US troubles to any other country. You're doing that. Stop it. You're making yourself look stupid. You have no idea what it's like here. Just because it's not as bad as it was before today doesn't mean it's not still bad.

Oh how fine of you and your American exceptionalism.
I don't know nothing right?
I don't know how it it to loose familiy members to enthnic cleansing.
I don't know how it is to loose family to war.
I don't know how it is to have your own capital city burned to the ground like Hiroshima.
I don't know how it is to have everything robbed from you by roaming bands of marauder soldiers.
I don't know how it is to dig out unexploded shells in your backyards every year.
I don't know how it is to be a slave in your own homeland, colonized and oppresed by 3 Empires.
I don't know how it is to see all you your labor destroyed every 50-70 years for last 400 years.


Yeah, I don't know anything, because some guy waving Confederate flag is literal Hitler and deadly thread to existence of USA.

Oh, BTW I don't know how it is to experience Hitler himself and his good buddy Stalin having a party at my backyard - my backyard was point blank on German-Soviet border after they destroyed Poland.

wtf are you going on about? This isn't a god damn contest. If you wanna start a thread on Slavery in Africa, go for it. If you wanna start a thread on how ****** up things are in Poland, go for it. This is the Trump thread. Seriously... wtf man

Which one of us is really displaying exceptionalism?

[mr.WHO]

wtf are you going on about? This isn't a god damn contest. If you wanna start a thread on Slavery in Africa, go for it. If you wanna start a thread on how ****** up things are in Poland, go for it. This is the Trump thread. Seriously... wtf man

Which one of us is really displaying exceptionalism?

That's my whole point! Bash Trump for what he deserve, he do and say plenty stupid things, like any other politician in the world (that was my point in other post before it turned into suffering contest).

If you say Trump is dump because he protect rebel statues, then I fully agree with you.

but if you say Trump is racist who cover for systematic racist oppresive system in USA, then I want to prove you that you're wrong.

Third option you can say that Trump is dump because you feel about it, but you don't need whole victimhood contest (I provided you plenty of example of as bad and way worse - across the modern world and USA past).


You wanted for solution, so you can fully bash Trump for not doing better - the problem is that he's doing the same "lets keep calm and wait (forever)" like several previous presidents, including Obama two terms.

You can bash his impotence in this matter all day long - for all his balls and cockingness persona he really did not display anything exeptional in regards to this issue.

[Vertigo 7]

wtf are you going on about? This isn't a god damn contest. If you wanna start a thread on Slavery in Africa, go for it. If you wanna start a thread on how ****** up things are in Poland, go for it. This is the Trump thread. Seriously... wtf man

Which one of us is really displaying exceptionalism?

That's my whole point! Bash Trump for what he deserve, he do and say plenty stupid things, like any other politician in the world (that was my point in other post before it turned into suffering contest).

News flash. I do.

If you say Trump is dump because he protect rebel statues, then I fully agree with you.

News flash. I do.

but if you say Trump is racist who cover for systematic racist oppresive system in USA, then I want to prove you that you're wrong.

I'm not blaming Trump for the systemic racism that has existed in this country for decades. I never once did. But he is a racist, quite clearly and flagrantly. He proved that before he took office and tripled down on that since.

Third option you can say that Trump is dump because you feel about it, but you don't need whole victimhood contest (I provided you plenty of example of as bad and way worse - across the modern world and USA past).

The contest that you started? I'm not playing whataboutism games. Save that for the Faux News comment sections.

You wanted for solution, so you can fully bash Trump for not doing better - the problem is that he's doing the same "lets keep calm and wait (forever)" like several previous presidents, including Obama two terms.

I wanted YOU to provide a solution since YOU decided it was a good idea to attack equal opportunity laws and offered no alternatives, and still haven't.

You can bash his impotence in this matter all day long - for all his balls and cockingness persona he really did not display anything exeptional in regards to this issue.

I will and have bashed him for every incompetence he displays. He hasn't done a damn thing to advance equality for blacks in this country, rather he's taken the opposite approach and turned our own military against constitutionally recognized peaceful protests. His failure to rise to the occasion and lead this country has culminated in attacks on American citizens. There is no reason I would abide that from him or any other president.

[mr.WHO]

I think we're getting close to conclusion, so I'll clear the remaining open point.

I wanted YOU to provide a solution since YOU decided it was a good idea to attack equal opportunity laws and offered no alternatives, and still haven't.

I don't want to repeat my previous post, but they issue is equality vs equity.

I'm all for equality + special Black focused scholarship program (example that children charity do not discriminate elderly).
I'm all against equity programs that boost one minority at the cost of discriminating other minorities. Not to mention that no matter how I wrap my head around it, I can't tell how American Asians are at fault for American slavery.


Same could be done for banks and housing and it could be profitable! Turning poor Black (or any poor minority in any country) into Middle Class is a money making machine!
There are plenty of rich celebrities and plenty of corporation who celebrate BLM on twitter...yet I don't see anyting done like that - Trump is full of BS, but so it all the rest of USA.

When I was a child, USA was described to me as a land of free people who take the initiative and their fate into their own hands. Now it looks like a land of whiny babies, only capable of throwing a temper tantrum on social media.

[Vertigo 7]

I think we're getting close to conclusion, so I'll clear the remaining open point.

I wanted YOU to provide a solution since YOU decided it was a good idea to attack equal opportunity laws and offered no alternatives, and still haven't.

I don't want to repeat my previous post, but they issue is equality vs equity.

I'm all for equality + special Black focused scholarship program (example that children charity do not discriminate elderly).
I'm all against equity programs that boost one minority at the cost of discriminating other minorities. Not to mention that no matter how I wrap my head around it, I can't tell how American Asians are at fault for American slavery.


Same could be done for banks and housing and it could be profitable! Turning poor Black (or any poor minority in any country) into Middle Class is a money making machine!
There are plenty of rich celebrities and plenty of corporation who celebrate BLM on twitter...yet I don't see anyting done like that - Trump is full of BS, but so it all the rest of USA.

When I was a child, USA was described to me as a land of free people who take the initiative and their fate into their own hands. Now it looks like a land of whiny babies, unly capable of throwing a temper tantrum on social media.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is blaming Asians for slavery? Did Mightysword make some rambling nonsense post alluding to that? If that's where you heard that from, I would flatly disregard it. If not, you'll need to provide me with some credible sources because that's the first I've ever heard of that ludicrousness.

Equal opportunity is not exclusive to blacks. If anything, it applies to all races, whites included. But even still, your idea of scholarships already exists through institutions like NAACP and other minority focused outreach programs. Education is only one part of the picture, though.

A couple of people have made a point that racial statistics are inherently racist, which I agree, to a point. But without those, you wouldn't see that blacks earn in the neighborhood of .75 on the dollar compared to whites of equal work experience and education. It's points like that the statistics show a far worse problem than the largely insignificance of having the statistics themselves. I've said this before, and I'll reiterate it for your benefit; the statistics all show that to have the best opportunity for success in the US, you must be straight, white, male, and christian. Anything else is treated as less. That's what equal opportunity is attempting to legislatively oppose. It would be awesome if people could be trusted to treat others fairly and not based on skin color, gender, etc. But they've proven they can't be trusted so these laws exist and will continue to exist until society changes and this notion of white supremacy is destroyed once and for all.

[mr.WHO]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is blaming Asians for slavery? Did Mightysword make some rambling nonsense post alluding to that? If that's where you heard that from, I would flatly disregard it. If not, you'll need to provide me with some credible sources because that's the first I've ever heard of that ludicrousness.

Equal opportunity is not exclusive to blacks. If anything, it applies to all races, whites included. But even still, your idea of scholarships already exists through institutions like NAACP and other minority focused outreach programs. Education is only one part of the picture, though.

Wasn't you refere to my post about affirmative action?
If not, then the whole discussion is a misunderstanding and I fully agree with the second part of your post.

Yes, I'm aware that this is only one part, but you could make the same chain of programs from school, through jobs, banking and housing - you could complain that goverment is lazy, slow and inneficient, but nothing really stop the private sector and celebrities to do this on their own - whole thing is modular enough that you don't need to wait for all parts to be finished immedieately. Isn't charity tax deductible?

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I'm all for equality + special Black focused scholarship program (example that children charity do not discriminate elderly).
I'm all against equity programs that boost one minority at the cost of discriminating other minorities. Not to mention that no matter how I wrap my head around it, I can't tell how American Asians are at fault for American slavery.

Same could be done for banks and housing and it could be profitable! Turning poor Black (or any poor minority in any country) into Middle Class is a money making machine!
There are plenty of rich celebrities and plenty of corporation who celebrate BLM on twitter...yet I don't see anyting done like that - Trump is full of BS, but so it all the rest of USA.

When I was a child, USA was described to me as a land of free people who take the initiative and their fate into their own hands. Now it looks like a land of whiny babies, only capable of throwing a temper tantrum on social media.

Turning poor minorities into middle class is something upper class doesn't want. If they're not poor anymore, how can you compel them to work for below minimal wage? How can you threat them to be fired (losing insurance and healthcare) if they don't comply any bull coming to your mind (for instance going to work when sick).

Corporations celebrating BLM is done to sell more to their white sensitive customers. Like corporations celebrating LGBT. BLM went viral, so corporations didn't miss the chance to go viral too.
Perhaps I'm too pessimistic, I hope so.

Equal opportunities

The fact is freedom is a shield protecting racism too. How many times I heard sentences like "I'm free to let in my hotel the people I want", or "I'm free to hire the people I want".
And "special laws" are not a solution (like "pink quotas" we have in Italy to ensure at least a percentage of women is employed in specific positions in companies: that mostly made bad choices). At least, special laws should be temporary.

On the other hand, "racism" can be used in a bad way, in certain cases. "He fired me because I'm black / gay / ..." is a weapon taking someone in tribunal potentially for nothing, because the reason he's been fired can be anyone.

This change in attitude requires time, not laws. Two generations are completely impermeable to equality discussions and there's nothing we can do about that.
If you enforce special laws, even newer generations are going to see them as obligations and misunderstating their reasons. It's even hard to write in a intelligible way what I think about it.

[mr.WHO]

Turning poor minorities into middle class is something upper class doesn't want. If they're not poor anymore, how can you compel them to work for below minimal wage? How can you threat them to be fired (losing insurance and healthcare) if they don't comply any bull coming to your mind (for instance going to work when sick).

Going back to the main topic - wasn't Trump term having record low unemployment and record low Black unemployment?
You can argue that it's not thanks to him that it was Obama administration, but still at least he didn't made things worse, economically...before COVID.

Having record low unemployment, not matter who is President is good starting point to actually break the cycle of poverty. Unless you introduce mass imigration to offset the wages and put the presure on the workforce.
Oh wait, Trump is building the wall and cutting visa programs? But all the media say it's evil.

Somehow it doesn't look like he's doing random stupid things...sometimes.

[Vertigo 7]

I have no idea what you're talking about. Who is blaming Asians for slavery? Did Mightysword make some rambling nonsense post alluding to that? If that's where you heard that from, I would flatly disregard it. If not, you'll need to provide me with some credible sources because that's the first I've ever heard of that ludicrousness.

Equal opportunity is not exclusive to blacks. If anything, it applies to all races, whites included. But even still, your idea of scholarships already exists through institutions like NAACP and other minority focused outreach programs. Education is only one part of the picture, though.

Wasn't you refere to my post about affirmative action?
If not, then the whole discussion is a misunderstanding and I fully agree with the second part of your post.

Yes, I'm aware that this is only one part, but you could make the same chain of programs from school, through jobs, banking and housing - you could complain that goverment is lazy, slow and inneficient, but nothing really stop the private sector and celebrities to do this on their own - whole thing is modular enough that you don't need to wait for all parts to be finished immedieately. Isn't charity tax deductible?

I have no idea where that came from. I've never come close to mentioning Asians in that context and will never have any reason to. That's just an absurd idea.

I guess maybe you're not understanding that equal opportunity laws are applied through things like Equal Housing Lenders, Better Business Bureau, and a whole slew of government programs. For these entities to gain federal insurance or accreditation, or licensing, etc., they have to certify compliance with equal opportunity laws. That's why you'll see things the Subway manager getting fired when their racial bias is exposed for choosing job applicants. Thats why employers cannot ask for someone's race or gender and other things for filling out job applications. Without those laws, minorities and even women, would be damn near SOL even getting job, or a line of credit, on and on. But the laws don't stop the discrimination, neither does carrying around a cell phone. It's a societal problem. It's a thought process that people go through to judge someone on things that have jack all to do with their ability to perform a job function, or ability to pay a loan back, or to be educated, on and on. That's the real problem that needs to be addressed, and no amount of legislature can fix stupid.

So what's the option? Yeah, as I mentioned, we have the NAACP and such, those are civilian run organizations. And those are great. Any of those programs that exist to provide opportunities to the disenfranchised, I'm all for. Sure, there's charities, and a lot of them do absolutely wonderful work. But as I said, until society changes and white supremacy is gone, the people also need legal recourse to protect themselves and force these jack holes to do the right thing, even if they don't want to, whenever possible.

Believe me, I want to see American society evolve to the point where we don't need those laws. But we're not there today. Not even close. I will happily stand up along side my fellow citizens and cheer when these protections are no longer necessary. But until that day comes, the minorities of this country will have my continued support in their fight for equality.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Turning poor minorities into middle class is something upper class doesn't want. If they're not poor anymore, how can you compel them to work for below minimal wage? How can you threat them to be fired (losing insurance and healthcare) if they don't comply any bull coming to your mind (for instance going to work when sick).

Going back to the main topic - wasn't Trump term having record low unemployment and record low Black unemployment?
You can argue that it's not thanks to him that it was Obama administration, but still at least he didn't made things worse, economically...before COVID.

Having record low unemployment, not matter who is President is good starting point to actually break the cycle of poverty. Unless you introduce mass imigration to offset the wages and put the presure on the workforce.
Oh wait, Trump is building the wall and cutting visa programs? But all the media say it's evil.

Somehow it doesn't look like he's doing random stupid things...sometimes.

Yeah, sure. It's like Salvini stopping immigration and "sending back migrants" by closing the ports to NGOs. The fact is you're going to have less "known and checked" migrants and more "unknown and unchecked" migrants, because immigration isn't something you can really stop, never. Cutting visa funds and building a wall is going to have that effect, plus a lot of segregation / discrimination / violence on Mexican border, the same way it was happening (still happening, probably) in Lybia.

[Vertigo 7]

Turning poor minorities into middle class is something upper class doesn't want. If they're not poor anymore, how can you compel them to work for below minimal wage? How can you threat them to be fired (losing insurance and healthcare) if they don't comply any bull coming to your mind (for instance going to work when sick).

Going back to the main topic - wasn't Trump term having record low unemployment and record low Black unemployment?
You can argue that it's not thanks to him that it was Obama administration, but still at least he didn't made things worse, economically...before COVID.

Having record low unemployment, not matter who is President is good starting point to actually break the cycle of poverty. Unless you introduce mass imigration to offset the wages and put the presure on the workforce.
Oh wait, Trump is building the wall and cutting visa programs? But all the media say it's evil.

Somehow it doesn't look like he's doing random stupid things...sometimes.

Yeah, sure. It's like Salvini stopping immigration and "sending back migrants" by closing the ports to NGOs. The fact is you're going to have less "known and checked" migrants and more "unknown and unchecked" migrants, because immigration isn't something you can really stop, never. Cutting visa funds and building a wall is going to have that effect, plus a lot of segregation / discrimination / violence on Mexican border, the same way it was happening (still happening, probably) in Lybia.

oh dude, the problems with Trump's wall was that it's just so dumb. His new wall sections weren't up for a week before someone cut through it. And he justified it by saying "it's gonna stop the drugs! It's gonna stop the criminals!" I guess he never heard of an airplane or a boat, which is where the majority of those things come through.

His policy actions on immigration though has been nothing short of heartless and cruel. Separating children from their parents, locking them in cages? Leaving these people in squalor conditions where they're dying at an alarming rate? Not to mention the disproportionate access to VISA that's favored immigrants from majority white countries. Oh he likes those.

And let's also not forget what happened in El Paso. 23 dead from one RWNJ extremist.

[mr.WHO]

Yeah, sure. It's like Salvini stopping immigration and "sending back migrants" by closing the ports to NGOs. The fact is you're going to have less "known and checked" migrants and more "unknown and unchecked" migrants, because immigration isn't something you can really stop, never. Cutting visa funds and building a wall is going to have that effect, plus a lot of segregation / discrimination / violence on Mexican border, the same way it was happening (still happening, probably) in Lybia.

Sorry, but it's not true - especially for Italy - all you have to do is cover sea border and strict inspections of ships.
Unless the country is like Russia, with wast and wild borderline it is perfectly possible to have proper migration control - it was possible for decades before migrant crisis, but is not possible now? With all the new tech like drones and mass surveilance it should be even easier than before.

You can joke about Trump and his Wall will not solve a problem - it is valid point. The issue is that everyone else seems to have "nah, it's not possible to fix mass migration" attitude.
Same is in EU - all Western leaders say "nah, it's not possible", while Eastern Europe has perfectly fine border control (even Greece seems to get it's shit together).

You can say that Trump is stupid by removing wisa programs and it would be valid before COVID.
Now with mass unemployment in USA it is perfectly fine to have "US-citizen first" policy.
I'm all for bringing back wisa programs, when employment get back to pre-COVID levels.

[jlehtone]

I have no idea whether this site https://news.yahoo.com/trump-seems-resi ... 18660.html delivers truthful quotes.

"[Biden] is going to be president because some people don’t love me, maybe,” Trump said to Fox News.

“Whenever he does talk, he can’t put two sentences together,” Trump exclaimed. “I don’t want to be nice or un-nice. The man can’t speak.”

I don't know what's love got to do with elections. Don't you vote the least offending canditate?

I would not point out lack of eloquence, if I were DT. On some of his videos one coherent sentence seems much to ask.

But, to let rhetorics hide the message is not the wisest thing to do, is it? DT has a message behind his tweets, yes?

[Vertigo 7]

I have no idea whether this site https://news.yahoo.com/trump-seems-resi ... 18660.html delivers truthful quotes.

"[Biden] is going to be president because some people don’t love me, maybe,” Trump said to Fox News.

“Whenever he does talk, he can’t put two sentences together,” Trump exclaimed. “I don’t want to be nice or un-nice. The man can’t speak.”

I don't know what's love got to do with elections. Don't you vote the least offending canditate?

I would not point out lack of eloquence, if I were DT. On some of his videos one coherent sentence seems much to ask.

But, to let rhetorics hide the message is not the wisest thing to do, is it? DT has a message behind his tweets, yes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0YKf-caVuY

There's the whole interview. I haven't watched it, I can't stand to look at that douche interviewer or listen to him talk. But if you can stomach it, you can verify the quotes.

[Vertigo 7]

You can joke about Trump and his Wall will not solve a problem - it is valid point. The issue is that everyone else seems to have "nah, it's not possible to fix mass migration" attitude.
Same is in EU - all Western leaders say "nah, it's not possible", while Eastern Europe has perfectly fine border control (even Greece seems to get it's shit together).

You can say that Trump is stupid by removing wisa programs and it would be valid before COVID.
Now with mass unemployment in USA it is perfectly fine to have "US-citizen first" policy.
I'm all for bringing back wisa programs, when employment get back to pre-COVID levels.

My points on his immigration policy predated COVID.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

oh dude, the problems with Trump's wall was that it's just so dumb. His new wall sections weren't up for a week before someone cut through it. And he justified it by saying "it's gonna stop the drugs! It's gonna stop the criminals!" I guess he never heard of an airplane or a boat, which is where the majority of those things come through.

His policy actions on immigration though has been nothing short of heartless and cruel. Separating children from their parents, locking them in cages? Leaving these people in squalor conditions where they're dying at an alarming rate? Not to mention the disproportionate access to VISA that's favored immigrants from majority white countries. Oh he likes those.

And let's also not forget what happened in El Paso. 23 dead from one RWNJ extremist.

That... was my point, actually...

Sorry, but it's not true - especially for Italy - all you have to do is cover sea border and strict inspections of ships.
Unless the country is like Russia, with wast and wild borderline it is perfectly possible to have proper migration control - it was possible for decades before migrant crisis, but is not possible now? With all the new tech like drones and mass surveilance it should be even easier than before.

You can joke about Trump and his Wall will not solve a problem - it is valid point. The issue is that everyone else seems to have "nah, it's not possible to fix mass migration" attitude.
Same is in EU - all Western leaders say "nah, it's not possible", while Eastern Europe has perfectly fine border control (even Greece seems to get it's shit together).

You can say that Trump is stupid by removing wisa programs and it would be valid before COVID.
Now with mass unemployment in USA it is perfectly fine to have "US-citizen first" policy.
I'm all for bringing back wisa programs, when employment get back to pre-COVID levels.

Actually, it's true especially for Italy, as a peninsula. There are international laws telling you can't just push back everyone, you need to be sure he has no rights to ask for haven based on there he come from. And, well, everyone coming from Lybia has the right to ask for haven, a civil war is happening down there!

Eastern Europe has "perfectly fine border control" with Hungarian "shoot first, ask later" diplomacy and barbed wire stopping people: that's not the border control a human should see in 21st century, imho.
Greece, Italy and (a little less) Spain are the countries asking to change redistribution regulations, yet a relevant quota of their EU members of parliament vote against changes.
The fact is human rights have become a political matter of dispute, and that is just horrible thinking about that, but I understand that migration is a complex problem which needs to be talked about before taking decisions.

Trump didn't talk about removing visa programs and building a wall because of covid, but talking about more strict regulations now is a valid point which can be discussed in the terms of "we can't help you now, we're drowning in our own sh t".

[mr.WHO]

Actually, it's true especially for Italy, as a peninsula. There are international laws telling you can't just push back everyone, you need to be sure he has no rights to ask for haven based on there he come from. And, well, everyone coming from Lybia has the right to ask for haven, a civil war is happening down there!

Eastern Europe has "perfectly fine border control" with Hungarian "shoot first, ask later" diplomacy and barbed wire stopping people: that's not the border control a human should see in 21st century, imho.
Greece, Italy and (a little less) Spain are the countries asking to change redistribution regulations, yet a relevant quota of their EU members of parliament vote against changes.
The fact is human rights have become a political matter of dispute, and that is just horrible thinking about that, but I understand that migration is a complex problem which needs to be talked about before taking decisions.

Sorry, but as person from Poland I know that International law is worth less than toilet paper.
People seems to be perfectly fine complaining about "systemic racism" within contries, while forgeting that "international law" is just the same on a higher level.

As for border protection - Eastern Europe is very familiar with shooting people trying to cross the border.
It's a bit confusing that people want to actually get in, rather than get out, but still.
No one really gave a flying **** about international and EU treaties when COVID hit - everyone closed their borders with no trouble within a few days.

Maybe that's the reason why I don't have a problem with Trump stance about border protection.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Actually, it's true especially for Italy, as a peninsula. There are international laws telling you can't just push back everyone, you need to be sure he has no rights to ask for haven based on there he come from. And, well, everyone coming from Lybia has the right to ask for haven, a civil war is happening down there!

Eastern Europe has "perfectly fine border control" with Hungarian "shoot first, ask later" diplomacy and barbed wire stopping people: that's not the border control a human should see in 21st century, imho.
Greece, Italy and (a little less) Spain are the countries asking to change redistribution regulations, yet a relevant quota of their EU members of parliament vote against changes.
The fact is human rights have become a political matter of dispute, and that is just horrible thinking about that, but I understand that migration is a complex problem which needs to be talked about before taking decisions.

Sorry, but as person from Poland I know that International law is worth less than toilet paper.
People seems to be perfectly fine complaining about "systemic racism" within contries, while forgeting that "international law" is just the same on a higher level.

And this is exactly the problem: everyone just thinks about themself. It's not "Italy first" or "My country first", it's "My country only", and it cannot work.

As for border protection - Eastern Europe is very familiar with shooting people trying to cross the border.
It's a bit confusing that people want to actually get in, rather than get out, but still.

Well, people tries to get in because it's on the path to Germany / France.

No one really gave a flying **** about international and EU treaties when COVID hit - everyone closed their borders with no trouble within a few days.

Maybe that's the reason why I don't have a problem with Trump stance about border protection.

Covid crisis is a exceptional (unpredictable? Maybe yes, but perhaps we were just unprepared) event requiring exeptional measures. Like closing borders inside EU and even closing towns (like we did in Italy in March - it wasn't enough because people kept "running away", infecting a lot of other people).

Trump stance about border protection was never about covid or the following unemployement boom, it's been just an electoral flag to gather the most votes possible. We have the same issue in Italy with border protection as political flag, but then it turns out we NEED migrants, because we can treat them like slaves and keep tomatoes prices low. And that is something it's been said quite clearly recently, even if without using the word "slave".

[mr.WHO]

And this is exactly the problem: everyone just thinks about themself. It's not "Italy first" or "My country first", it's "My country only", and it cannot work.

That's the problem with "international law" - it is applied when it's fits the big like France and Germany, but it it's not fitting them they thrown it out of the window. Yet in regards to Eastern Europe they dare to say "shut up and obey".
We are no longer playing your game.

Trump stance about border protection was never about covid or the following unemployement boom, it's been just an electoral flag to gather the most votes possible. We have the same issue in Italy with border protection as political flag, but then it turns out we NEED migrants, because we can treat them like slaves and keep tomatoes prices low. And that is something it's been said quite clearly recently, even if without using the word "slave".

So it's not good to block slavery migration to US by Trump, but it's great to have more slaves for Italy?
Damn it's dark.

No education and job oppotunities for Black is racist, but blocking migrants who directly compete with Black for these opportunities is racist too?

I don't really care if Trump is doing it from the bottom of his heart or because he want to score election point.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

And this is exactly the problem: everyone just thinks about themself. It's not "Italy first" or "My country first", it's "My country only", and it cannot work.

That's the problem with "international law" - it is applied when it's fits the big like France and Germany, but it it's not fitting them they thrown it out of the window. Yet in regards to Eastern Europe they dare to say "shut up and obey".
We are no longer playing your game.

Trump stance about border protection was never about covid or the following unemployement boom, it's been just an electoral flag to gather the most votes possible. We have the same issue in Italy with border protection as political flag, but then it turns out we NEED migrants, because we can treat them like slaves and keep tomatoes prices low. And that is something it's been said quite clearly recently, even if without using the word "slave".

So it's not good to block slavery migration to US by Trump, but it's great to have more slaves for Italy?
Damn it's dark.

That's what they said: last month they tried to pass a law to regularize immigrants working in agriculture (especially in southern Italy), which are mostly irregular migrants. Right wing "protect our borders" party voted against it because "they're going to ask for regular contracts, which will increase the cost of vegetables".

No education and job oppotunities for Black is racist, but blocking migrants who directly compete with Black for these opportunities is racist too?

I don't really care if Trump is doing it from the bottom of his heart or because he want to score election point.

Migration flows aren't something a single country can hope to control and will never be. You need diplomatic agreements, you need to help political stability and economic growth of migrants' original countries. Walls never worked in history. Welfare is the solution, but it's something you need collaboration for.