[MOD] Miscellaneous IZ Combat Tweaks

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 04:32

One question/problem with MICT. Right now in Molten Archon I'm fighting several Xenon Is and my ships if in Zone 3 (with the jump beacon) or elsewhere in sector consistently jump into Heartache Mist where three other Xenon I's are hanging out. THe ships all follow the leader into another rats nest at low shields. I order them back to a safe sector and then back into the fight and they jump right back into Heartache Mist when they are low on shields again.

I get the first time since they can't know they are there...but every time after that? Right now from Lava Flow they ships always jump to Heartache Mist...when Fervid Corona in Glaring Truth is a much safer jump.

Not sure if I dumped a X4Probe into the zone would that make a difference into the captain's logic loop?

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 06:45

BoostHungry wrote:Does this mod assist with boarding? IE: Will friendly ships destroy a ship I'm in the process of trying to board?

Yes they will. They won't stop firing on a ship that you're trying to board.

@Jonzac, you're saying that you're fighting in Molten Archon and your ships jump to Heartache Mist? Sounds like a bug, or possibly the vanilla flee kicking in. Could you send me a save?

Would you happen to be using the CES Edition?

Are your ships following their target to Heartache Mist?

BoostHungry · Post by **BoostHungry** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 13:31

Any chance you will implement boarding assist similar to CES? Or would you just recommend I use MICT CES Edition along with CES?

Jonzac · Post by **Jonzac** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 13:45

w.evans wrote:
BoostHungry wrote:Does this mod assist with boarding? IE: Will friendly ships destroy a ship I'm in the process of trying to board?
Yes they will. They won't stop firing on a ship that you're trying to board.

@Jonzac, you're saying that you're fighting in Molten Archon and your ships jump to Heartache Mist? Sounds like a bug, or possibly the vanilla flee kicking in. Could you send me a save?

Would you happen to be using the CES Edition?

Are your ships following their target to Heartache Mist?

Yes, that is what is consistently happening. Often the lead ship will take a beating and jump into a whole different sector. The AI ships do this occasionally as well.

I use the version activated through the STEAM subscriber page for now.

EDIT: Sent you a PM. Also I downloaded the mod from Nexus and deleted the Steam version to see if there is a difference. Will let you know later today.

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 19:29

Hey Jonzac, thanks for the report. Replied to your PM.

What people usually do around here with regard to sending saves is to upload it somewhere like google drive, dropbox, or tinyupload, and send a link to the upload. Tinyupload requires the least fuss, I find, since it doesn't require registration.

You could send me the link via PM, if you like. Posting the link here in the thread is fine too.

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Thu, 24. Mar 16, 20:34

Sorry Boost, missed your post. Ships stopping their fire when boarding a ship has actually already been in for quite some time, but it's commented out because I chose not to implement it. Reason is it would only affect MICT ships. You should be able to call the MICT ships that belong to you off, and i think it doesn't make sense that MICT ships who do not belong to you would decide to stop going after their target just because you decided to take it.

That said, you could go in aiscripts\MICT.fight.attack.object.capital.xml and look for the node directly under:



and uncomment that. (just delete the "" below that line.)

If you also have MOCT, you could also go into fight.attack.object.capital, fight.attack.object.station, and fight.attack.object.fighter which have similar nodes. (Actually, I think they're right on top for the MOCT scripts.) That will cause everyone in the galaxy to stop firing when you decide to board.

That feature never went beyond testing though, so I probably won't support it. That said, it does work quite well.

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 20:06

w.evans wrote:They have to. It should already be a lot faster if, for example, you order the squadron to travel between zones because the squadron members get their leader's destination and go there rather than waiting until their leader leaves the zone. I remember discussing the boost-to-doom with cicero111 back when I wasn't modding yet: a whole squadron boosting at the same time and getting to where they're going absolutely at the same time without breaking formation. Unfortunately, never quite managed to get there.

I was doing some test with fleet formations.
I noticed that, if the leader and its subbordonates are pointing to the same direction, then they ll move in formation ( with 2 3 sec delay for the subbordonates)

in a formation like , if i ask the leader to move to a position or another sector :

Code: Select all

Leader-->
sub1<--
sub2<--

the two subbordonates will turn first before boosting to the leader's new position. So maybe, the leader should turn and wait all of its sub's turns before using booster ?

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Fri, 25. Mar 16, 20:28

I tried. At the time, I didn't know how yet. Now, I have a clearer picture of how that could work. (check to see if a ship has subordinates. if it does, signal them to turn that way. turn. wait for subordinates to signal ready. everyone go.) However, I also have a pretty good idea of how much time that's going to take to do and test, and I unfortunately can't spare that kind of time at the moment. Sorry. Maybe in the future.

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Sun, 27. Mar 16, 17:30

After lots of capital ships battle

Fighting MICT ennemies are really fun !
- so to avoid hide and seek battle with the tactical jump, destroying thiers jump drive and using the teladi constrictor missile are mandatory héhé.

By the way, the Albion Skunk ship is considered as a "fighter" ? because, i as wondering why, the ennemies dont try to jump next to me , when i m using the railgon sniper gun !
( i think i ve read somwhere that mict ship does not jump next to a fighter )

- finally, a long range as squad leader is not a good idea ! if it takes aggro, it ca be dead especially if the ennemy is retreating to a jump beacon and the leader jump at him too.

- the best attack command is the "patrol zone" move. This way, the ships does not follow the target when it retreats to a jump beacon, and i ve noticed that all subbordonates respond faster and are well oriented ( balor and succelus ) after jumping.

I am using the MICT CES edition, and in your change log , DO is not using tactical jump. This tactical jump is only for Defense Officer ?
(because, all ships is using jump when they attack )

.......
11.March 2016 - initial upload MICT CES Edition

Version of MICT that does not include the DO script, and does not use tactical jumps.

Primarily for use with beaver1981's CES.

Next stage is to go to war against plutarch with the CWIR mod, i did not fight against massive fleet yet . ( just 1 to 3 light cap ships from the kill boss missions )

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Sun, 27. Mar 16, 18:10

debstar2610 wrote:By the way, the Albion Skunk ship is considered as a "fighter" ? because, i as wondering why, the ennemies dont try to jump next to me , when i m using the railgon sniper gun !
( i think i ve read somwhere that mict ship does not jump next to a fighter )

Yup, the Albion Skunk is a fighter. I think it's m-sized, but am not sure. Oh, just checked the Skunk's asset file, and was surprised to find out that it's classified an s-sized ship!

debstar2610 wrote:- finally, a long range as squad leader is not a good idea ! if it takes aggro, it ca be dead especially if the ennemy is retreating to a jump beacon and the leader jump at him too.

- the best attack command is the "patrol zone" move. This way, the ships does not follow the target when it retreats to a jump beacon, and i ve noticed that all subbordonates respond faster and are well oriented ( balor and succelus ) after jumping.

You finally gave me the last clue! After reading this, looked in command.fight.attack, and all ships (even vanilla ships) do indeed pursue targets that flee if given an explicit attack order.

Hm. Would be easy enough to change it so that they either don't pursue, or treat it as a regular combat jump and jump to the zone where their target fled to but still in optimal relative position.

Problem with the first is that you won't then have an option to order a ship to attack and pursue to the ends of the universe.

Problem with the second is that I don't think it'll fit in-game. I think tactical jumps are justifiable if the crew's really really good because the distance involved isn't all that great so calculating a jump in-zone is extremely difficult, but possible. However, jumping to a different zone is presumably prohibitively difficult thus necessitating usage of jump beacons.

Think I'll leave it as is for now. At least we now know we have that option and how to deliberately control it.

debstar2610 wrote:I am using the MICT CES edition, and in your change log , DO is not using tactical jump. This tactical jump is only for Defense Officer ?
(because, all ships is using jump when they attack )

They were two different changes.

Removed the DO script from the CES edition because CES has a DO script and the MICT DO script would override the CES DO script for all MICT ships. (Which you probably do not want if you're using CES.)

Removed tactical jumps because beaver1981 said that the idea with CES is to attack from a distance using drones while closing with the target slowly.

Just checked again, and MICT ships should not jump at all in combat with the MICT CES Edition installed. Are you sure you don't have a different copy of MICT installed? (Check your extensions folder to make sure that it does not contain a folder named "w.e_mct" or "ws_478790162". The latter is generated by Steam when it detects a folder with the same name as the one it's trying to install with the same or higher version number, and can cause conflicts. Also, please check your extensions\w.e_mict\aiscripts folder to make sure that you do not have MICT.fight.attack.object.capital. If one of the conditions above is true, please get back to me.)

debstar2610 wrote:Next stage is to go to war against plutarch with the CWIR mod, i did not fight against massive fleet yet . ( just 1 to 3 light cap ships from the kill boss missions )

Sounds like fun! BlackRain asked me a while back how to get the CWIR ships running MICT if MICT is also installed. Don't know if that made it in, but you might find yourself facing MICT fleets!

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Sun, 27. Mar 16, 20:12

... i've just checked and there is actually the old MICT from steam still activated ... I m sure i desabled it in game when installing the MICT CES edition and MOCT.
Maybe the steam update re-enable it ? ...
Hum i ll delete it and give further feedback .

I did not noticed that because i thought CES was working :
The DO is firing at turrets > shields > hull ( may be mict does it too ?)
The Drones are stronger and has schields, and are used by capital ships
When changing the DO officer stance of a leader, all subordonates do the same. ( very usefull for boarding rather than select all ship one by one )

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Sun, 27. Mar 16, 20:26

debstar2610 wrote:The DO is firing at turrets > shields > hull ( may be mict does it too ?)
When changing the DO officer stance of a leader, all subordonates do the same. ( very usefull for boarding rather than select all ship one by one )

It does. Not quite in that order, but jump drives, engines, radar, drone launch pads, turrets, missile launchers, and shield generators (both local force field generators and hull shield generators) are prioritized, hulls being targeted only if none of the above are in line of sight. Exception is the Sucellus IHC. In a recent change I switched that back to going for hull hits only to maximize the chance to hit.

DO standing orders given to squadron commanders extending to their squadrons is also in.

debstar2610 wrote:The Drones are stronger and has schields, and are used by capital ships

This would take the CES changes since I didn't change drones, with the exception of Assault URVs. (MICT_supp7, included in MCT) That will conflict, possibly resulting in unusable Assault URVs depending on load order. CES has engines on the connection that had torpedo launchers. Will end up either with Assault URVs that can't move, or that'll be fine.

debstar2610 wrote: I m sure i desabled it in game when installing the MICT CES edition and MOCT.

Disabling it in-game should actually be enough. Let me know if behavior changes after you delete it. (Make sure you unsubscribe. Otherwise, Steam will reinstall MCT when you launch the game.)

Also, did you check for the ws_somenumber folder in extensions?

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Sun, 27. Mar 16, 21:16

w.evans wrote: Disabling it in-game should actually be enough. Let me know if behavior changes after you delete it. (Make sure you unsubscribe. Otherwise, Steam will reinstall MCT when you launch the game.)

Also, did you check for the ws_somenumber folder in extensions?

yes that's why the mod was re-intalled, i did not unsubribe after desabling it .

No more w_e_mct in the folder or ws_xxxx.
Now first battle, no tactical jump anymore. MICT ships are boosting to attack target. So i guess, i can watch ces DO actions now, especially with the drones !

rainking2020 · Post by **rainking2020** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 19:50

Hi all,

I've recently started using this mod for the in zone combat tweaks and the out of zone tweaks. I'm using the version hosted on steam workshop so I guess I'm using the most up to date version. I currently only have a very small fleet. I have one Balor and 2 Titurels. Both the titurals seem to work fine, they jump to optimum range and start opening fire on the target. The Balor however just seems to get stuck. It tells me it's jumping to optimum range and does the jump fine, it then aligns with the target as though its about to fire it's missile, then it just does nothing, it just sits there pointing at the target.

I've tried with the Balor in and out of my squad with no difference, I've also tried disabling the target ship so that it's not struggling to line up, but I've just had no luck at all. Also my screw aboard the ship are all 5 stars.

Any ideas? as I really like the the look of this mod.

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 20:00

rainking2020 wrote:Hi all,

I've recently started using this mod for the in zone combat tweaks and the out of zone tweaks. I'm using the version hosted on steam workshop so I guess I'm using the most up to date version. I currently only have a very small fleet. I have one Balor and 2 Titurels. Both the titurals seem to work fine, they jump to optimum range and start opening fire on the target. The Balor however just seems to get stuck. It tells me it's jumping to optimum range and does the jump fine, it then aligns with the target as though its about to fire it's missile, then it just does nothing, it just sits there pointing at the target.

I've tried with the Balor in and out of my squad with no difference, I've also tried disabling the target ship so that it's not struggling to line up, but I've just had no luck at all. Also my screw aboard the ship are all 5 stars.

Any ideas? as I really like the the look of this mod.

As far as i know, ( from http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... 64#4510664), the torpedos recharge time is 160 s ( instead of 40 s in base game ) it can be very long indeed with one balor only !

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 20:13

What debstar said. Also, make sure you switch your Balor's defence officer to "Attack". Otherwise, they aren't authorized to fire torpedoes, although they will align with their target and start tracking as you described.

Prepare for the macross-missile-storm fireworks.

edit: thanks for the link, debstar. That brought back fond memories. I just realized though: that was all the way back in page 11! Did you seriously read through the entire thread?

rainking2020 · Post by **rainking2020** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 20:55

AHA looks like it was my defence officer set to defence not attack. I switched him over to attack and missiles were everywhere

I'm just starting to build up a fleet for some fun, I'm definitely now going to include the Balor in the fleet.

debstar2610 · Post by **debstar2610** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 21:09

w.evans wrote:What debstar said. Also, make sure you switch your Balor's defence officer to "Attack". Otherwise, they aren't authorized to fire torpedoes, although they will align with their target and start tracking as you described.

Prepare for the macross-missile-storm fireworks.

edit: thanks for the link, debstar. That brought back fond memories. I just realized though: that was all the way back in page 11! Did you seriously read through the entire thread?

Not yet ! I've noticed same problem with balor weeks ago and I read the spec again to be sure of the balor's behaviours !
i found the link in the change logs in the first thread !

The changes made to Balor torpedoes are described in more detail here.

I've done lots of battles this week end with the real MICT CES Edition,
the MiscellaneousIZCombatTweaks_v0.61_CES_Edition [ZIP content preview] does not include the supplements right ?
I was losing all my hair over that , too much diffrences ....especially the squadron's response time and bahaviours ... I ve just noticed it right now

Adding all suplements now and doing more battles experiences !!!

w.evans · Post by **w.evans** » Tue, 29. Mar 16, 23:35

debstar2610 wrote:MICT CES Edition,
the MiscellaneousIZCombatTweaks_v0.61_CES_Edition [ZIP content preview] does not include the supplements right ?

Yup. The CES Edition contains only the base mod, same as the main mod at the Nexus. All of the supplements from both MICT and MOCT should be good to go with CES except MICT_supp7. If you already installed MICT_supp7, you could just delete extensions\w.e_mict\assets\units\size_xs\macros\units_size_xs_wardrone_macro.xml.

beaver1981 also mentioned the MICT and MOCT supplements that he uses over at the CES thread, if you want to try out a more authentic CES set-up.

@rainking2020, watch out for friendly fire with those Balors! That's why I thought having a way to control when they're allowed to fire torpedoes was important to have in.

Well, ok, that and I thought having them fire the first barrage on command was cool.

rainking2020 · Post by **rainking2020** » Wed, 30. Mar 16, 09:35

Yeah I can imagine the friendly fire is an issue if your not careful, although friendly fire has never looked so good in X rebirth until this mod

My starter fleet will probably only be 3 or 4 ships, anyone recommend a good combination?