Coronavirus: COVID-19

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BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo »

Incubi wrote: Wed, 5. Aug 20, 23:51 Living in California and surfing the second wave

That is a little Californian humor. Being in the middle of what looks to be the current hotspot, I have to keep my humor up. Still delivering Pizza because food delivery is booming now and I need work, haven't paid rent in three months. Despite this, I think things are going to be fine. I am hoping that most of these new numbers are related to more available test, but the rising death toll is alarming. So much for this being done in August. How is everyone else doing?
In Europe cases are rising again, especially in France, Belgium and Spain: they opened too early, and these are the consequences.
In Italy, cases are somewhat stable, bouncing between roughly 100-300 daily. There is some hot spot in a couple towns, in particular from businesses that never closed (food processing, couriers, ...) or foreign workers coming back (eastern european), but for now they look like they're under control, even if potentially dangerous.
People in tourist spots often isn't respecting social distancing, nor wearing face masks, and this is dangerous too.
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Chips
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Chips »

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote: Thu, 6. Aug 20, 08:52
Incubi wrote: Wed, 5. Aug 20, 23:51 Living in California and surfing the second wave

That is a little Californian humor. Being in the middle of what looks to be the current hotspot, I have to keep my humor up. Still delivering Pizza because food delivery is booming now and I need work, haven't paid rent in three months. Despite this, I think things are going to be fine. I am hoping that most of these new numbers are related to more available test, but the rising death toll is alarming. So much for this being done in August. How is everyone else doing?
In Europe cases are rising again, especially in France, Belgium and Spain: they opened too early, and these are the consequences.
It's not necessarily opening too early - otherwise after x months of lock down it'd be eradicated. I'd imagine those contracting it are heavily weighted towards individuals who've ignored advice.
Mightysword
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Mightysword »

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote: Thu, 6. Aug 20, 08:52 In Europe cases are rising again, especially in France, Belgium and Spain: they opened too early, and these are the consequences.
Question, what kind of opening would be classified as "not" opening too early?

Unless you have a magical way to test every single person living in a country, and every single person turn up negative. And at the same time, either close your border or quarantine/testing every single person come across while assuming you're not missing a single person crossing illegally. Only if somehow all those condition hold, you will have a rise in case anytime a country re-open, no matter how long you're going to wait. And if a simple rise in case is the only qualification needed to put the label of "open too early". Even SE Asian countries which often hold as the golden standard for COVID-19 responses are not exception to this. That's why you keep hearing about cases going up and down over there, even Vietnam after re-opening started detecting new cases after like ... 49 straight days being in the clear.

It has been often mentioned, and while being also acknowledge at times but I feel they are also often forgotten or brushed aside for a more ... negative narrative. The points of social distance/lock down were not to eradicate, or totally stop new spread (we half a year passed the point of that being possible), but to slow down the spread both to help the health care system to keep pace and to buy time before a more effective/permanent measures can be discovered. So a rise in new cases doesn't mean opening too early, but further consideration are: did you re-open when your case load still high and new case were still on the up, did you re-open before new health care infrastructures are in place to prepare for new load ...etc... For example, by the time Colorado re-open, our new cases load were on the way down, our healthcare were never at capacity, and on top of that we added like 5000 new beds into our hospital (with many of that ICU and lvl2 care). Of course, as we re-opened our case loads start going up again, but I wouldn't say Colorado opened 'too early'.


The reason I point this out because the 'opening too early' is a narrative that I think being used too callously in many places. Yes, there are cases you can clearly see as negligence, but the reality is government in most places are simply dealing with a shit reality. The pandemic is like predators circling the air, and our communities are like the preys holding our breath underwater. The windows places reopen to me is like when we think it's safe to surface and have a gap of air, if we see danger then we would dive again, and we can certainly make both good and bad timing for that. Frankly I expect the open-close-open-close cycle to be the new norm until a more permanent solution is reached and it would be better for people to 'appreciate' this is the new realities and not necessary due to some evil ulterior motives. Sure, ideally we should hold our breath for as long as necessary, but no matter how good one is at holding your breath the fact is you can keep holding your breath forever.
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BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo »

Mightysword wrote: Thu, 6. Aug 20, 20:07 ...
I get your point.
By "opening too early" I don't mean they released the lockdown too early, but I think people got somehow a false impression of total safety; especially in tourist spots, people doesn't wear face masks anymore and doesn't respect a safe social distancing. They gather in clubs, markets and so on like nothing ever happened, and it is too early for this kind of behaviour. I get it: people needs a normal life, but there's still a ton of asynthomatic men and women (these mostly are the new cases, if you exclude immigration - workers coming back to work - from countries where the pandemic came later, thus are still in a bad situation, like balcan nations and some eastern european ones).
In Europe, we lowered our attention too much, and I mean the people felt too safe (I'm sure there have also been communication issues from authorities).
Yes, hospitals aren't clogged like months ago, and that is what's important, in the end. But covid recovery doesn't grant immunity, so people must be more careful and keep wearing masks and social distancing in crowded areas.
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Olterin
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Olterin »

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote: Fri, 7. Aug 20, 09:08 But covid recovery doesn't grant immunity, so people must be more careful and keep wearing masks and social distancing in crowded areas.
While I agree in general, I'd like some serious citations on the claim that covid recovery does not grant immunity.

Is this a virus that mutates a lot? We don't know. Is this a virus that affects your immune system in such a way as to destroy a future immune response? Doesn't look like it but ultimately we don't quite know. The reason that we don't really get immunity to influenza, for example, is that the virus mutates essentially every year, so whatever previous immunity you've got is kinda useless next time around, to my knowledge. Provided there are no exacerbating factors such as virus mutation and the like, actual immunity should exist for some time after recovery, though jury is also out on "how long" (it should be more than a couple months, however, our body doesn't forget that easily, usually...)
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felter
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter »

Olterin wrote: Fri, 7. Aug 20, 17:01
BrasatoAlBarolo wrote: Fri, 7. Aug 20, 09:08 But covid recovery doesn't grant immunity, so people must be more careful and keep wearing masks and social distancing in crowded areas.
While I agree in general, I'd like some serious citations on the claim that covid recovery does not grant immunity.
Honestly, this has been all over the place from governments, to scientists even the WHO has mentioned it on numerous occasions, I'm not talking about some random dude with a bad youtube channel, we are talking world class experts that have been saying this and you have not heard it.
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X2-Illuminatus
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by X2-Illuminatus »

Olterin wrote: Fri, 7. Aug 20, 17:01
BrasatoAlBarolo wrote: Fri, 7. Aug 20, 09:08 But covid recovery doesn't grant immunity, so people must be more careful and keep wearing masks and social distancing in crowded areas.
While I agree in general, I'd like some serious citations on the claim that covid recovery does not grant immunity.
independent.co.uk (13th July 2020): Coronavirus: Immunity to Covid-19 can vanish in months, study suggests

"A UK study found that 60 per cent of people retained the “potent” level of antibodies required to resist future infections in the two weeks around the first sign of symptoms.

However, that proportion dropped to less than 17 per cent after three months, according to researchers at King’s College London."

Medical university of Viena: COVID-19: not all patients develop protective antibodies

"(Vienna, 05 August 2020) A laboratory test that has now been developed by a study group from MedUni Vienna is able to determine whether COVID-19 patients develop protective antibodies after having the disease. The main finding of the test is as follows: the scientists from MedUni Vienna's Institute of Pathophysiology and Allergy Research discovered that only around 60% of patients who have had COVID-19 and recovered from it develop protective antibodies and, for the first time, they were able to show that some antibodies even "assist" the virus by augmenting its to the cells of the host. The results have recently been published in the leading journal "Allergy".

thelocal.de (13th July 2020): German research suggests infection offers little immunity to coronavirus

"A research project completed in the German state of Bavaria found that people infected with coronavirus lose their antibodies to the virus just months after beating the disease, giving rise to concerns about the effectiveness of herd immunity."
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Olterin
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Olterin »

I have indeed heard the part about antibodies, however, as far as I was taught, long-term protection/immunity (and I blame my memory on not being terribly precise here, I shall read up again) is ensured by memory cells, which are few in number, not the antibodies. Antibodies do obviously dissipate once the infection has been cleared out of your system, why would your body keep producing them against something that's no longer there? Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd hate to spread false information.

Thank you for the links :)
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Vertigo 7
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Vertigo 7 »

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-7-y ... r-BB17HHED

7 year old in Georgia died from Covid. Poor kid had a seizure and later died in the hospital.

IDGAF what Trump says, IDGAF what governor mee-maw says, I'm not risking my kids lives. They're not setting foot in school while this virus is still out there.
Reap what you sow.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Vertigo 7 »

Took longer to happen than I thought it would, but now a member of my family has contracted Covid. And as a result, his wife can't go to work due to her potential exposure and their 5 year old isn't allowed in day care. Not to mention he has also potentially exposed my step mother and now one of her sons who came to visit over the weekend and didn't bother to inform him who is now super pissed.

And yep, patient 0 believed Trump.
Reap what you sow.

"I don't think people should be taking medical advice from me" - Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Secretary Health and Human Services, May 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s65IW4dh_6w
RegisterMe
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

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Vertigo 7 wrote: Mon, 10. Aug 20, 22:33 Took longer to happen than I thought it would, but now a member of my family has contracted Covid. And as a result, his wife can't go to work due to her potential exposure and their 5 year old isn't allowed in day care. Not to mention he has also potentially exposed my step mother and now one of her sons who came to visit over the weekend and didn't bother to inform him who is now super pissed.

And yep, patient 0 believed Trump.
Lots could be said, to evoke one political stripe or another but... I'm sorry to hear that, I hope it goes well for all of you.

My best American friend (the US Admiral I've talked about before)? I am inundated with photos of him and his family and mass gatherings of vets and beach shenanigans etc. I... struggle with that.

I should call them out for it. I haven't. Yet.

I'm not proud of that.
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020
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Observe
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Observe »

Vertigo 7 wrote: Mon, 10. Aug 20, 22:33 Took longer to happen than I thought it would, but now a member of my family has contracted Covid. And as a result, his wife can't go to work due to her potential exposure and their 5 year old isn't allowed in day care. Not to mention he has also potentially exposed my step mother and now one of her sons who came to visit over the weekend and didn't bother to inform him who is now super pissed. And yep, patient 0 believed Trump.
Sorry to hear that Vertigo. I hope everyone in the family gets over it, without too much grief.
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felter
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter »

Scottish kids go back to School today (Aug 11th) but right now we kind of have the virus under control, so it will be interesting to see what happens, as no one knows just what is going to happen. meanwhile Bozo is desperately trying to convince English parents that it is safe to send their children back to school, and some of the things he is saying would not be allowed to be said on either Twitter or Facebook. Meanwhile the virus is starting to get out of control in the North east of England, particularly around Manchester. But hey it's okay as deaths are low, lets just forget about the rising infections as they don't lead to furthers deaths down the line. Oh and Bozo says kids, don't get the virus, but if they do they don't spread it around much, so no need to worry. Meanwhile he totally forgets that the teachers in those schools are not kids, or that it is adults who take those exact kids to those schools and drop them off at the gate. Happy days.

Yeah and I hope it all works out for your family Vertigo, stay safe.
Vertigo 7
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Vertigo 7 »

Thanks guys, I hope so too, but I'm not enthusiastic about it. They were literally exposed 2 days ago and other than my father, they believe that if they got a negative test result yesterday that they're good to go.
Reap what you sow.

"I don't think people should be taking medical advice from me" - Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Secretary Health and Human Services, May 2025
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s65IW4dh_6w
RegisterMe
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by RegisterMe »

This is an interesting read. It's quite long, and difficult to summarise, but worth the time if you're curious about how the immune system works as context for COVID-19.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ry/614956/
I can't breathe.

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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by fiksal »

Vertigo 7 wrote: Mon, 10. Aug 20, 22:33 Took longer to happen than I thought it would, but now a member of my family has contracted Covid. And as a result, his wife can't go to work due to her potential exposure and their 5 year old isn't allowed in day care. Not to mention he has also potentially exposed my step mother and now one of her sons who came to visit over the weekend and didn't bother to inform him who is now super pissed.

And yep, patient 0 believed Trump.
Sorry to hear it, man. Hopefully everyone recovers.
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Olterin
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Olterin »

RegisterMe wrote: Tue, 11. Aug 20, 12:57 This is an interesting read. It's quite long, and difficult to summarise, but worth the time if you're curious about how the immune system works as context for COVID-19.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ry/614956/
An excellent read, highly educational - and a good refresher if one already knows some of this. Many thanks!

@Vertigo 7: sorry to hear it, hope everyone recovers without too much lasting damage.
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felter
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by felter »

So Bozo the clown wants everyone to believe that kids going back to school is perfectly safe, as kids don't catch the virus and of course they do they don't spread it around, meanwhile here in Scotland we know differently.
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo »

My best wishes for your relatives to recover soon, Vertigo.
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Incubi
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Re: Coronavirus: COVID-19

Post by Incubi »

Now with the AQI so bad in parts of California due to the fires. There is an interesting issue. N95 mask are not available because the hospitals need them. If you do find a n95 mask and it has a valve that allows moisture to escape it, you'll have to put a cloth over it to catch the moisture or it wont protect others from you. The exposure to smoke may make you more susceptible to coronavirus. Breathing has become a luxury in California.

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