Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[Incubi]

Amazing how many people with no access are posting on this internet site!

Further, even if doing so at a library or works computer ( shame on you ) How on earth have you patched your games?

Internet for gamming has been fairly non optional for over 10 years.... and I do not miss buying pcgamer hoping it had a patch for one of the games I owned

[Texhnolyzed]

Steam = no sale. I have no internet access to the floor with my gaming PC, and I'm not about to rewire the building at my own expense just to play it. Besides, I prefer having the physical disc and box over a digital download. There have been download services in the past that went financially down the toilet, and anyone who bought games through them were out of luck when they suddenly couldn't access their accounts. Bethesda Softworks' game Skyrim is due out next month, and will REQUIRE Steam for activation, even if you own the disc. It's been claimed that if you have any "issue" with Steam, they will cancel your account and not allow you to create another, EVEN IF YOU BUY ANOTHER COPY. Quite simply, I can't and won't play X Rebirth if it requires Steam. Hopefully the X-games won't go down that same road where I cannot and will not follow.

Yep, people sure claim a lot about Steam.

Regarding worries about not being able to start X: Rebirth in offline mode if it turns out to be a Steamworks game. I doubt that that will be an issue. I can start Fallout: New Vegas, which is a Steamworks game as well, just fine in offline mode. The same goes for all my Steamworks games, which are quite a few.

Ps. I've looked at some pages back, and noticed a post complaining about Steam downloading the game he bought even though he got it retail. This can happen from time to time, why... I don't know, but there's something you can do. Click here for the info! Just in case anyone else got this problem and doesn't know what to do.

[A5PECT]

Regarding worries about not being able to start X: Rebirth in offline mode if it turns out to be a Steamworks game. I doubt that that will be an issue. I can start Fallout: New Vegas, which is a Steamworks game as well, just fine in offline mode. The same goes for all my Steamworks games, which are quite a few.

Anecdotal evidence is always conflicting when it comes to this.

Of course, "I've heard people say" is a really crap excuse when you can download Steam and a good number of games and demos for absolutely no charge to test for yourself (no, you don't even have to put any personal information into your account).

[Nanook]

Amazing how many people with no access are posting on this internet site!

Further, even if doing so at a library or works computer ( shame on you ) How on earth have you patched your games?...

Ketraar politely suggested a few pages back to stop attacking people with different experiences/opinions regarding Steam. I'm reiterating it now a little stronger. Feel free to discuss the merits and demerits of Steam, but enough with the belittling of those who don't agree with your opinion or experience. If people can't keep it civil, without attacking someone else's opinion, then this thread will descend to the depths. Clear enough?

[apricotslice]

@Texhnolyzed
@Mightysword

How many times do I have to say that I dont have any emotional response to Steam one way or another.

This is an intelectual discussion for me.

Steam has NOTHING I want.

Steam has a whole heap of features I dont want.

Getting around some of the features I dont want is a great deal of effort with no guarentee of success.

Valve is a company with a very low rating.

Steam is a 3rd party program that has nothing at all to do with playing the game.

As such, I do not want it on my computer.

I dont allow Microsoft to do windows updates automatically, I have no intention of putting a program on my computer that demands to do it. And thats only 1 of its major issues.

I dont hate steam. It provides nothing I want, and has a lot features I dont want. Thats it. I choose not to put it on my computer.

If you want to use me as the posterboy for steam haters, go right ahead, I forgive you. Call me a hater as much as you like, it doesnt change anything for me. And the more you do it the more "me thinketh he doth protest to much" comes to mind.

You cant convert me. Stop trying. You cant insult me, stop trying. And I hope the mods have the sense to remove anything that would otherwise get the thread locked, because I do want to see how many people are like me over the months before the game comes out. Currently waiting to see if we reach the 200 mark.

I will also repeat what I've said many times before :

I dont want Steam.

I'm perfectly happy for those who like and want steam to have it.

I want Egosoft to give us both options the same as they did for TC.

Its up to each person to choose if they use Steam or not.

All I want is the choice not to and still be able to play the game.

[epimannn]

Like i said on the french forum, offline or online working games depend on the DRM level choosen by the editor.

lvl 0 : No DRM at all, you can launch the game from the game folder without steam launched ( first releases of terraria if i'm not mistaken )

lvl max : You play only when connected to internet, frequent check of the game while playing.

And lots of possible intermediates lvl such as online activation and just online activation. Online activation + periodic check.

Deepsilver told us that there's online activation. We can't say if there will be more DRM options added or not. That will be the surprise.

If the game is lvl max DRM, i'll bare with it even if i dont like that. I love Xgames. Steam is for me a convenient way to buy it.

That's not because a game is on steam that you'll have the max lvl DRM on it every time...
And if they choose the max lvl, they wont tell us when we look at the war between players and a publisher for a game i cant remember... And it was not steam released first.

[Incubi]

74 pages. Easy to miss warnings.

At anyrate, I was not attacking anyone, but lightheartedly pointing out how people without internet access are accessing it somehow to post. SO not understanding that arguement, also pointing out that internet access has been a soft requirement for over a decade now, Some operasting systems even require it to activate.

There is hysteria in this thread so it was easy to get light heartedly dodgy about it, no intense attack intended. Obviously there are other reasons to resent steam requirements, but it should be kept within reason.

I think it is safe to assume it got a little hostile as well ( I missed that part ) or I would have had more care in my post. My point remains the same regardless, just minus the /poke now.

No internet is very limiting nearly impossible now a days. Asking for a dos version of the game because you do not have windows is to par with this claim. Saying no internet access when you are posting on the internet is a little silly IMO. I am sure there is a way to deal with this.

If the game is released in a way that you still have an hour of downloads to do even when purchasing a dvd... erghh I am with those people I hate that and it would limit some users.

[apricotslice]

but lightheartedly pointing out how people without internet access are accessing it somehow to post.
......
No internet is very limiting nearly impossible now a days. Asking for a dos version of the game because you do not have windows is to par with this claim. Saying no internet access when you are posting on the internet is a little silly IMO.

Its not about internet access, but bandwidth.

Obviously everyone here has internet access. But the difference between what you need to read a forum, and what you need to download 200+mb files in any sort of reasonable timeframe, with reasonable reliability is completely different. (Reliability wise, a high percent of files I download get to the last handshake and then time out, resulting in the entire download needing to be done again. Thus I only do downloading when I know the connection is working well.)

A lot of people dont have large download limits. They dont have reliable connections. They access the net from behind firewalls that upset steam.

The current download the patch off egosofts site works, because people can do it whenever they want, or can, or organise to do it somewhere else on some other computer, and transfer the file to their games computer.

The internet may be the best thing since sliced bread and becoming more and more useful, but that doesnt mean that we all want it to rule our gaming lives.

And it doesnt mean that its a practical reality for everyone.

Internet companies that primarily sell to people with superfast internet with unlimited useage, should not be assuming that everyone has this.

Nor should they assume that everyone wants what they are selling.

[Mightysword]

This is an intelectual discussion for me.

It doesn't have much of an intellectual thing to me. Here is what I sent the moderator about the reason behind my post. I originally post it here, but removed it and sent it via PM. But since now you insist, I'll give it to you:

But, with all due respect, in order to have a so call "discussion" ( a proper one anyway) then the participants have to be hold accountable for what they say. He is free to dislike steam and we can all respect that, he does not even need to provide reasons.

But if he participate in a "discussion" and give his reason to dislike then we are reasonably expect it to be coherent. I don't have problem with people just saying they don't like my school. But if they move on and give reason, I would fully expect it to be sensible. I'm sure you won't stop anyone from saying they hate Egosoft on the forum, but I would think if they start grabbing for every straw, true or false, reasonable or unreasonable to ditch Egosoft then I would think some of you would intervene. Samething here, I hope you understand.

You cant convert me. Stop trying.

No, I am not trying to convert you. But if you make a false or unreasonable point, I'm obliged to point it out. Put it this way, I am not pointing out you are wrong to convert you, I am pointing out you are unreasonable to inform you that you are unreasonable, and even more important, I am pointing out you are unreasonable so the people reading your message know that you are unreasonable. There are a lot of people on both side reading this threads, both steam lovers and steam haters. But there are also of people who are on the fence, and I want to give them a reasonable chance to try the system to see whether they like it or not, or at least to see if they can deal with it or not.

It may be hard to believe, but as I state many times in this thread already, I do have a genuine regret if I see someone miss out a good piece of entertainment for something they can try to deal with. People like you had already asserted that you give little care about the game, and it's either your way or no way - fine. But there are people like Scoop, Greypanther or Vincent, and I bet many other lurkers here that have genuine interest in XR, the last thing I want to see is for them to give up on the game because of Steam even before giving it a chance because of posts like yours. I don't think your posts is as self-centric and neutral as you claim, but even if they are, they effect more people then just yourself. You are free to continue saying how you dislike Steam, and I will continue point out your mistake as long as I can back it up, just so we are clear the next time I do that, I'm not doing that because I want to convert you I don't think I am even doing it for you. But one can only maintain a poker face for so long before losing it. The alternative is just to ignore your post in this thread, which I may end up doing. In any case, this is the last time I will address you in this topic in a confrontation manner, I will reply to your reply - if there is one - via PM. I would welcome any "intellectual" point from you on the thread however.


And this is for Nanook. I tried to keep this reply as civil as possible, but I think this is something you can relate to. You and I have a couple of spars the past few months over how you think X3's econ is fun and I think it's broken. While I believe most of what I said are well constructed and back up with in game evidence. One of my personal guideline in a debate that "you can disagree with me, but you can't prove that I am wrong". However, your bottom line have always been "I don't want you to scare away new players that may actually find the system enjoyable", and I fully respect that. And this situation is exactly my turn of doing that. There are people who dislike Steam because they used it years ago, there are people who never used Steam before, and I don't want them to be scared away by people who have problem with it, or in some case, by people who never tried it to begin with.

[apricotslice]

But if he participate in a "discussion" and give his reason to dislike then we are reasonably expect it to be coherent. I don't have problem with people just saying they don't like my school. But if they move on and give reason, I would fully expect it to be sensible.

But "coherent" and "sensible" vary according to whos judging. What fails for you, is fine for others.

Besides, I'm not trying to be either. I'm just stating what I want, which is the choice to use steam or not use steam.

I am pointing out you are unreasonable to inform you that you are unreasonable

Thats just your opinion. And your ignoring that I'm not making any attempt to be "reasonable", the same as I'm not trying to be "coherent" and "sensible". I'm just stating what I want, which is the choice to use steam or not use steam.

But there are also of people who are on the fence, and I want to give them a reasonable chance to try the system to see whether they like it or not, or at least to see if they can deal with it or not.

And I want them to have the ability to choose either way.

The whole thing comes down to the choices offered.

1. Buy the game and submit to the rule of steam.
2. Dont buy the game.

I want the 3rd option included as well.

3. Buy the game and choose not to use steam.

That is in the best interests of anyone on the fence. Give them all choices.

I don't think your posts is as self-centric and neutral as you claim,

I'm not even pretending to be neutral. I dont want steam on my computer. Period. Cant be more non-neutral than that.

But in saying so, the object is for us all to be given the choice of if we use steam or not. At the moment, we dont have that choice.

but even if they are, they effect more people then just yourself.

Exactly so. Nearly 200 people here have agreed with me. Much to my surprise.

You are free to continue saying how you dislike the game,

I've never said that. I have reservations about the way the game is going, and I refuse to use steam. Neither is disliking the game.

and I will continue point out your mistake

[sarcasm mode on] How very nice of you. [Sarcasm mode off].

The alternative is just to ignore your post in this thread

Please do.

I regularly do this with a lot of people in a lot of forums.

[bobxii]

Gee, there's a whole lot of hate running around for a least-intrusive DRM program cum distribution platform for a single player game - the best possible target for piracy...

[apricotslice]

Why do people interpret not wanting a program like steam on their computer as hate ?

Its not hate.

Its a choice.

One doesnt have to hate something to choose not to use it.

[epimannn]

You dont want steam.
You dont want any DRM.
You dont want any copy protection.

So you dont want game ? There's something i cant understand... DRM, copy protection are needed. You dont like this fact ? You cant do anything. Try to stop all the kids around the world to download games.

The only thing you can do is to buy your games and bear with the drm/copy protection/steam.

Yes, we'll see X:R available on torrent network, those protections are not design to avoid the game to be hacked, pirated. It's a way to ensure days, months of sales for DS et ES BEFORE the game is released on those torrent network.

The steam market is far better for an editor than any DRM system. It probably costs more per game to go with steam, but the potential sales are a lot larger than a normal release.

But do as you want ( or dont want ). I dont try to convert you, just to make you sensible to the deepsilver view.

[bobxii]

The steam market is far better for an editor than any DRM system. It probably costs more per game to go with steam, but the potential sales are a lot larger than a normal release.

I think this is the real reason; maintaining multiple distribution methods is a gigantic pain in the butt for a small company and would consume a large chunk of developer resources to troubleshoot.

[apricotslice]

You dont want steam.
You dont want any DRM.
You dont want any copy protection..

Where on earth did you get that from ?

I dont want steam. Period. Tick.

I dont want digital copies of games, movies or tv. Therefore, DRM is irrelevant to me.

The copy protection for TC was quite adequate and will do just fine for XR. And yes, I will be fine with leaving the disk in the drive to play.

I've said all this before, many times.

[fairywhipper]

74 pages. Easy to miss warnings.

At anyrate, I was not attacking anyone, but lightheartedly pointing out how people without internet access are accessing it somehow to post. SO not understanding that arguement, also pointing out that internet access has been a soft requirement for over a decade now, Some operasting systems even require it to activate.

There is hysteria in this thread so it was easy to get light heartedly dodgy about it, no intense attack intended. Obviously there are other reasons to resent steam requirements, but it should be kept within reason.

I think it is safe to assume it got a little hostile as well ( I missed that part ) or I would have had more care in my post. My point remains the same regardless, just minus the /poke now.

No internet is very limiting nearly impossible now a days. Asking for a dos version of the game because you do not have windows is to par with this claim. Saying no internet access when you are posting on the internet is a little silly IMO. I am sure there is a way to deal with this.

If the game is released in a way that you still have an hour of downloads to do even when purchasing a dvd... erghh I am with those people I hate that and it would limit some users.

disagreement about internet access, i am here now on internet, but i cant play game or activate anything because i am using a browser... in fact its on my mobile phone, which is the limit of my internet capacity. yes i do tether my computer to the net for updates. and yes, i even have a steam account because i brought 2 games which required me to activate through steam. 1 will be playerable around xmas when stesm finishes downloafing the patch which was around 970mb. the other isnt even worth the install from disc as it then insist on a 2.5gb downloaf....

so yes, i have tried it, not a fan...... but hey by all means use steam if it works for you. for me. NO.

[VincentTH]

Amazing how many people with no access are posting on this internet site!

Further, even if doing so at a library or works computer ( shame on you ) How on earth have you patched your games?

Internet for gamming has been fairly non optional for over 10 years.... and I do not miss buying pcgamer hoping it had a patch for one of the games I owned

Joking aside, I am very serious about playing XR in offline mode. My job requires me to be at customers' site often. Waiting at the airport, or being stranded due to a snow storm in Chicago O'Hare airport for 7 hours is no fun if you can't get online to kill time.

[esd]

Gee, there's a whole lot of hate running around for a least-intrusive DRM program cum distribution platform for a single player game - the best possible target for piracy...

That almost looks like a deliberate attempt to get the thread locked, which is why I'm just going to rebuke it and leave the thread open. Piracy discussion isn't welcome.

No, you don't need to reply.

[apricotslice]

That almost looks like a deliberate attempt to get the thread locked, which is why I'm just going to rebuke it and leave the thread open.

Thankyou.

There have been several such comments in the last day or so. One wonders if it is the aim of some people to get this thread locked.

I appreciate the extra work it takes the mods to cut such posts out, and leave the thread going.

[Incubi]

Amazing how many people with no access are posting on this internet site!

Further, even if doing so at a library or works computer ( shame on you ) How on earth have you patched your games?

Internet for gamming has been fairly non optional for over 10 years.... and I do not miss buying pcgamer hoping it had a patch for one of the games I owned

Joking aside, I am very serious about playing XR in offline mode. My job requires me to be at customers' site often. Waiting at the airport, or being stranded due to a snow storm in Chicago O'Hare airport for 7 hours is no fun if you can't get online to kill time.

I am refer to activation only. Not activation plus dl for disc versions. For patches,even without steam they are online anyway.