Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

Mightysword · Post by **Mightysword** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 05:04

apricotslice wrote: If thats so, then it should say on the box that Steam activation is necessary.

But it does, quote:

**Internet connection and acceptance of Steam's Subscriber Agreement required for activation. See www.steampowered.com/agreement for details.

Right there in bold, italic character at the back of the box.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 05:13

If it does, then I missed it, and I looked pretty hard for it.

T.S.Zatoichi · Post by **T.S.Zatoichi** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 05:16

Sorry Apricotslice, looks like your screwed. Civ 5 requires steam. The only reason I have Steam is because of Civ 5. I saw the mention of Steam on the box, but I really wanted the game.

Looking at the back of the box (or at least my box), It says Steam required in two places. One of them is in bold (though small print) saying 'Internet connection and acceptance of Steam Subscriber Agreement required for activation' and the other is at the very bottom under 'Other Requirements'.

It's been awhile since I installed this, but I believe the disk has most of the game on it. If your lucky, you may be able to return the game for a refund (or at least store credit).

Ahh, Ninja'd

strude · Post by **strude** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 06:06

T.S.Zatoichi wrote:It's been awhile since I installed this, but I believe the disk has most of the game on it. If your lucky, you may be able to return the game for a refund (or at least store credit).

There have been many patches for Civ5 since release, which will be downloaded when it's activated also.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 06:07

Dont get me wrong, I didnt buy it. I just looked at the box. It did have interest for me up until it came out and I read the pdf manual for it. That put me off at the time. Its only since that I found out its also Steam.

I looked at it to see what was on the box. I'll have another look next time I go past. It could be the box here is different form overseas. Or I just missed it.

X2-Eliah · Post by **X2-Eliah** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 06:15

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bi ... 8_back.jpg

written in bold italic, with ** at the start. as with any system requirements.

VincentTH · Post by **VincentTH** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 06:25

@apricotslice

Nice try to get around the crave of X:Rebirth

You will end up like me, don't like Steam but will cope with it, unless there is an alternative

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 09:34

strude wrote:There have been many patches for Civ5 since release, which will be downloaded when it's activated also.

Many ? The game is not very old !

I hope thats not a trend as well. Implement on steam, and because its rigged to update, instead of doing proper patches, they just release a lot of smaller patches as they go.

On another note, I was talking to my local computer store today, and he reckons they regularly get computers in for service where Steam has corrupted windows update, or where a windows update has badly reacted with Steam and windows starts crashing as soon as the windows update is applied.

He did admit that he has no knowledge of Steam itself, just that every time he sees it, it has contributed to b*ggering up a computer. He ends up removing steam and then reinstalling windows.

It happens enough for him to be very aware of Steam as a potential problem that brings him a steady income.

While this will be a minority, as has been said before, either steam works perfectly, or its a total nightmare.

Anything with this kind of reputation doesnt go on my computer. I dont take that kind of risk.

X2-Eliah wrote:http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bi ... 8_back.jpg

written in bold italic, with ** at the start. as with any system requirements.

Hmmm, I dont remember any of that. Makes me wonder if the box is different here. I'll check next time I'm there.

VincentTH wrote:@apricotslice

Nice try to get around the crave of X:Rebirth

You will end up like me, don't like Steam but will cope with it, unless there is an alternative

No, I dont think so. The more I read, the less I like steam, and I didnt like the idea to start with.

Its much more likely I will go back to more of my old games and try and get them to run under a virtual box, and revisit the past.

thetack · Post by **thetack** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 09:58

intresting to hear that about steam apricotslice i thought it may of just been me whos windows was s****d by steam.
any reply from DS or Bernd to your e mails ?

strude · Post by **strude** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 09:59

apricotslice wrote:
strude wrote:There have been many patches for Civ5 since release, which will be downloaded when it's activated also.
Many ? The game is not very old !

Well I reckon it's 4 or 5 plus a couple of small hot fixes. It came out in a pretty bad state. Some "features" seemed to do nothing at all at release, which gave me the impression they were just place holders for features that didn't quite make it. As it turned out those "features" were completely revamped in a subsequent patch. However, I think my wording may not have been the best either. It won't download all the patches available, just the files that are different to the installed files. Civ5 has been out about 13 months.

apricotslice wrote:On another note, I was talking to my local computer store today, and he reckons they regularly get computers in for service where Steam has corrupted windows update, or where a windows update has badly reacted with Steam and windows starts crashing as soon as the windows update is applied.

He did admit that he has no knowledge of Steam itself, just that every time he sees it, it has contributed to b*ggering up a computer. He ends up removing steam and then reinstalling windows.

I suggest you get another computer guy, as he doesn't sound too competent.

Removing Steam then reinstalling Windows? Why would he remove Steam first, then reinstall Windows? Makes no sense, since the reinstall is going to wipe everything anyway.

Also how would a person who has no knowledge of Steam determine that it was Steam that buggered up the computer? If he doesn't know how Steam works or what it does, what evidence does he provide to say Steam contributed to it?

I'd be very careful taking his advise on anything computer related, as it sounds more like he blowing smoke up your bum. Either that of you mentioned previously that you don't like Steam and he's just nodding and agreeing to keep the customers happy.

Tycow · Post by **Tycow** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 10:04

Never heard of Steam buggering up Windows Update; if anything, it's the other way around.

Another search specifically looking for Windows Updates corrupted by Steam produces similar results. A quick glance through the first few pages doesn't indicate any Windows Updates being broken by Steam to me.

I would suggest that the PC repair man is talking tosh, and is probably feeding off something you maybe said to him.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 10:19

Tycow wrote:Never heard of Steam buggering up Windows Update; if anything, it's the other way around.

It doesnt matter which way around it is.

Nor what way round you fix the problem.

The fact that there is a potential problem is all that interests me.

As it happens, this guy is the best I've found and has managed to fix BSOD problems that microsoft said reformat and reinstall for.

If he says that steam can cause windows problems with windows update, I beleive him.

He just doesnt use steam.

Tycow · Post by **Tycow** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 10:25

apricotslice wrote:If he says that steam can cause windows problems with windows update, I beleive him.

I give in. I can't argue against blind faith.

apricotslice · Post by **apricotslice** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 10:26

Tycow wrote:
apricotslice wrote:If he says that steam can cause windows problems with windows update, I beleive him.
I give in. I can't argue against blind faith.

I dont do blind anything.

Faith based on a lot of experience.

Scoob · Post by **Scoob** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 12:24

Hmm, let's face it, Windows Update can happily break Windows with no help from anything else...

I'm using Windows 7 Ulitmate 64 on four PC's and the 32 bit version on two. So far it's been very well behaved.

I've even had an update go through while I've been testing Steam - no problem so far. Not to say something won't screw up at some point though...maybe AVG will take issue with the next update...maybe my Ad Blocker software will...who knows.

At the moment I'm running WITHOUT Steam, just to see if there are any intrusive elements that are still resident...there aren't. I'll fire it up next time I want to test.

My plan is that Steam will usually NOT be running, unless I want to play XR. That's sorta what I'm testing now. I've asked steam to always start in Offline mode (though it does NOT start with Windows!) and I want to see how it behaves. Both launching the client directly and letting the game (demo) launch it when I try to run it.

Additionally, with Steam NOT running, I'd not expect it to interfere with Windows Updates at all - it'll not be locking any files etc. If Steam breaks after an update...well, steam can re-install its self in like two minutes, though of course that'd mean Online Mode and other updates potentially... Oh, my Steam install isn't on my system drive...the drive it's on has no reason to ever be touched by windows update...or anything other than Steam really.

After my intial playing around I'm fairly happy with Steam on MY machines. On XP I'd be more troubled as XP really is getting clunky in it's old age. Updates to, I assume, patch security holes etc. have made it sloooowwww. My old XP laptop, that used to feel quite speedy, is now dead slow...it runs next to nothing, just my car diagnostic stuff. I pop it on line every now and again just to let it update. I want to put W7 on it (32 bit) but it's my only machine that still works with my scanner lol. I've noticed this slowness on a lot of machines running XP that have been kept up to date...like MS are almost forcing an update by killing XP's speed.

As an aside I recently put Windows 7 Ultimate 32 on an old Pentium 4 2.6 (no HT) machine which only has 1gb of RAM. It runs far better than XP did. Note: I DO know what I'm doing with PC's for the most part, the old XP build was clean and the PC isn't used for much other than Word/Excel stuff - it hardly goes on line other than updates. So it wasn't a "cluttered old machine" by any means.

Apricot: You're obviously pretty tech savvy, why not try out Steam first hand? I'd read LOTS of horror stories about Steam and experienced a few myself in the early days. However, because of XR, I'm willing to test it out again. I've learnt a hell of a lot from doing that and reading some of the good, genuine advice from people posting here. If you try it you'll know if your concerns are genuine or not. As it stands you're basing your choice on what 3rd parties say...you know, it might just work and, for me at least, it's not felt intrusive at all.

You've stated poor connection initially as being your biggest concern, fair enough it sounds like you have genuine issues there. Steam, connecting to a local server as it does, might actually be BETTER than your usual connection...one way to confirm or deny that! lol. We later discovered that your chosen laptop wasn't really cutting-edge any more, again fair enough, many of us have been there and I get your concern. However Steam may well be fine with both those restrictions as it seems pretty light for the most part, if a little heavier on Ram than I expected. If XR will run on it or not...well, that another matter... Really, Steam's resource requirements are a drop in the Ocean.

Again, I'm testing on a Q6600 @ 2.4 with 8gb Ram and an 8800GT 512mb. A decent, if older, spec machine and I've had no issues. I don't know how this compares to your laptop, sorry, I've missed your post if you did mention your specs. My Gamer is a 2500k @ 4.6 with 8gb and 2x GTX 570 1.25gb - a fair bit more powerful. Whether the former can run XR adequately I don't know - I'd hope so, if at lower graphical settings. It runs TC ok, but the heavily modded games I play tax it somewhat...cpu-wise more than anything. The true multi-threaded nature of XR should, I hope, allow quad cores to shine...even older ones like mine.

I will be posting an FAQ/guide/Q&A type post again here, though I'll need to PM a moderator before hand so it doesn't just get merged with this thread once again. I think it will help people and maybe change a few minds. I started off very much "I don't want that crap on my PC's" and I still don't like the power they have to potentially take my play time away...but that is just a potential ability on their part, I don't really expect it to happen...cheaters in online games yes, people who abuse others in said games, good riddance, me in my single player game? Doubtful.

Ok, service outages can happen, but as I'll be in OffLine mode and the PC will have it's NIC disabled, Steam won't be any the wiser. Maybe it'll demand to go online one day because it's not been for some threshold number of days or something...not seen it do that yet - it's been quite happy sat there in Offline mode...though of course it's not been installed long.

As a final note: Steam has actually fixed some of my initial issues already! I had some confusion in my first test where the game demo was reported as "Ready to Play" when it was evidently still downloading. When I downloaded the 2nd demo the messages were clearer...that's after a Steam update was applied while I was sat in Online mode testing. I still get a DX9 error (on both machines, only with Magicka demo - which is know to be buggy apparently), but that's when the game is trying to install DX9 - that I already have...it gave me a cause for concern initially, but things worked fine.

I say to anyone, try it out, make an informed choice. If it's the T&C's that you don't like then fine, stop there. However I didn't consider them "bad" or "we expect your first born" or anything like that...actually, they appear far less demanding that your average EULA on a disc-based game...though, as I mentioned before, Steam DO have more control to enforce said EULA potentially.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Mightysword · Post by **Mightysword** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 16:12

apricotslice wrote:
Many ? The game is not very old !

I hope thats not a trend as well. Implement on steam, and because its rigged to update, instead of doing proper patches, they just release a lot of smaller patches as they go.

Dude ... I'm holding back from being a smarty pants here, but your anti-steam semantic is turning a lot of what you said into face-penciling material ... It's like it's no longer about reasoning whatever, but if it's steam it gotta be bad. jeeze, and I thought I only see that in politic

Texhnolyzed · Post by **Texhnolyzed** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 16:35

Mightysword wrote:
apricotslice wrote:Many ? The game is not very old !I hope thats not a trend as well. Implement on steam, and because its rigged to update, instead of doing proper patches, they just release a lot of smaller patches as they go.
Dude ... I'm holding back from being a smarty pants here, but your anti-steam semantic is turning a lot of what you said into face-penciling material ... It's like it's no longer about reasoning whatever, but if it's steam it gotta be bad. jeeze, and I thought I only see that in politic

From what I saw in this thread, apricotslice was in the "hate on Steam for the sake of hating on it" group from the beginning.

Post by **Ketraar** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 16:42

This type of comments is not topic related nor helpful. Everyone is allowed to be against anything if they like, even if its just for the sake of being against it.

Lets keep discussing the topic at hand and not the choices everyone makes.

MFG

Ketraar

chew-ie · Post by **chew-ie** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 16:59

Thanks for this important reminder Ketraar =)

Bestia.Interior · Post by **Bestia.Interior** » Wed, 19. Oct 11, 17:01

A lack of Steam integration would sadden me. I really enjoy the convenience of the service and find it superior to physical media, so much so that I've already come to a point where Steam is a deciding factor if I buy a game or not.

I have some issues right now that I think might be codec related with windows media player, and I'm going to have to format my system to fix it, I'm afraid, and it pleases me to know that all I need to do in order to have all my games up and running is to install and start steam, and let it do it's thing. No disc swapping, no babysitting, no hunting down updates... just everything I want ready with just a few clicks.

The only reason I got X3 was because it was on Steam. It won out over Borderlands, which I would have had to import to avoid a Low Violence Version, and then it turned out that the retail game doesn't actually have Steamworks, even though you can buy the game on Steam. I've also re-bought games I already have when they came out on Steam, like company of heroes. That game was such a pain in to update every time I installed it. A process that could easily take hours since each patch was incremental, requiring all of them to be installed in sequence, and they would rewrite code (which is slow) rather than overwrite files (which is fast, but would take up more space in the patch file, I take it).

All in all, I love the service, I love the platform, and I'd love to see more Egosoft titles on it

If it's found that a significant amount of potential customers have a problem with it, I suppose an approach like Borderlands could work. A retail version that does not require Steam, and a Steam version purchasable over Steam that does. Everyone walks away happy.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'