Trump

[Grim Lock]

I'm perfectly aware when the announcement was made, but the deal can't just be quit on a whim, so what Pompeo is referring too is the first step to make it official, it will take till november 2020 till one can say, now we really are out of the accords, i already vented my feelings about leaving the accords back then when Trump announced his leaving plans, this is about the stupid lies meant for the Trumpians that accompany the starting of this procedure in Pompeos tweet.

And ps, Trump is your current representative for the time beeing, and there where enough Americans for him to get him elected, so it's way more than just Trumps doing.....

[Vertigo 7]

Well insult the Trumpanzies and their cult leader all you like. But please do refrain from generalizing about the entirety of the US. I am still a patriot and do love my country.

I admit we have our flaws. Trump notwithstanding, we get it right more often than when we get it wrong. I know he can't be ignored, but he will be corrected.

[Grim Lock]

I'm very sorry, but as i said, Trump is your current chosen representative and does so for the entire country whether you like him or agree with him or not, so no i won't refrain from insulting America as a whole as you say. I prefer that better than to make it personal

[Vertigo 7]

Yeah, but when you do that, that includes people like me who are very clearly against him and all of the stupid things he does. He's acting unilaterally without the consent of congress or the people of the United States. Hell, he wasn't even elected by the people.

I've said it before, this is a unique situation with this president. I know we will overcome this insanity.

[Grim Lock]

Well you and your fellow anti-Trump Americans could also read my comments with "if the shoe fits" approach, that way you might not feel as insulted.

[Vertigo 7]

The US as a whole has always been pretty narcissistic

You can't even take proper care of your citizens let alone prevent massive amounts of them getting so desperate they turn to crime and get put in jail. Realistic and pragmatic are words that just not apply in any way to the US.

See, that's the thing. You say its up to us to take an "if the shoe fits" mentality, but your statements are an insult to 300 million people. You're judging an entire country based on the actions of a few. It's just as bad as judging someone based on the color of their skin or their faith or their gender. As a matter of fact, it's EXACTLY how Trump behaves and refers to and treats other countries. Hell, that's how Masterbagger acts. Do you really want to be in the same boat as either of those two?

I'm not asking you to change your opinions, I'm just asking you to not include those that have not been party to the things you're angry about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Trump and his klan are in the minority in this country and do not represent our values and beliefs.

[Grim Lock]

Well the points you quoted are indeed not Trump related (i brought them up in light of pompeo stupid "aren't we great" tweet) but how the US has been for years and even under democratic rule those particular points have not or only barely improved. So yeah imo you ALL need to demand and do better. Trump and his minority aren't responsible for everything i feel the US isn't honest about to itself.

That's enough of that for me though, don't think i could add anything to clarify even more, i'm starting to feel like i'm on repeat. I just won't go lengthen my posts unnecessarily in the name of political correctness, if you are indeed fighting for a country that doesn't lock everyone up at the drop of a hat, provides healthcare properly, education and social services, good for you, you are what i'd like the US to be filled with, but from where i'm standing, there's so few of those, i wont be bothering dancing around their feelings, again, if the shoe fits.

[Vertigo 7]

There's plenty of us that want to see those things changed, the problem has been apathy. The real reason we're in the position we're in is because voters were so disenchanted with the choice of Trump or Hillary, people just didn't vote. The turnout has been in the 50% range for years and that needs to change. I can guarantee this, Trump will not be in office for the next term, either by impeachment or voted out, he's not going to remain. While his base has been steady in his support it has not grown, he "woke the dragon" and the country will remove him if the senate doesn't. The people will not risk a 2nd term of Trump.

If the republicans were smart, they would force him out now if they wish to hold seats in the senate. Even Moscow Mitch's seat is being seriously challenged already and it wouldn't take much for voters to toss him out on his wattles.

[Masterbagger]

The US as a whole has always been pretty narcissistic

You can't even take proper care of your citizens let alone prevent massive amounts of them getting so desperate they turn to crime and get put in jail. Realistic and pragmatic are words that just not apply in any way to the US.

See, that's the thing. You say its up to us to take an "if the shoe fits" mentality, but your statements are an insult to 300 million people. You're judging an entire country based on the actions of a few. It's just as bad as judging someone based on the color of their skin or their faith or their gender. As a matter of fact, it's EXACTLY how Trump behaves and refers to and treats other countries. Hell, that's how Masterbagger acts. Do you really want to be in the same boat as either of those two?

I'm not asking you to change your opinions, I'm just asking you to not include those that have not been party to the things you're angry about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Trump and his klan are in the minority in this country and do not represent our values and beliefs.

I don't want you to project that toxic stuff on me but I forgive you for doing it.

[Vertigo 7]

The US as a whole has always been pretty narcissistic

You can't even take proper care of your citizens let alone prevent massive amounts of them getting so desperate they turn to crime and get put in jail. Realistic and pragmatic are words that just not apply in any way to the US.

See, that's the thing. You say its up to us to take an "if the shoe fits" mentality, but your statements are an insult to 300 million people. You're judging an entire country based on the actions of a few. It's just as bad as judging someone based on the color of their skin or their faith or their gender. As a matter of fact, it's EXACTLY how Trump behaves and refers to and treats other countries. Hell, that's how Masterbagger acts. Do you really want to be in the same boat as either of those two?

I'm not asking you to change your opinions, I'm just asking you to not include those that have not been party to the things you're angry about. I've said it before and I'll say it again, Trump and his klan are in the minority in this country and do not represent our values and beliefs.

I don't want you to project that toxic stuff on me but I forgive you for doing it.

Did you or did you not choose to align yourself with a known racist, bigot, misogynist, and sexual predator? Since we all know you have, what I said is not projection. You made the choice, you have to live with the consequences.

Also, I don't give a rats ass about your feigned forgiveness.

[Vertigo 7]

@Grim Lock

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/05/us/p ... tions.html

Virginia's state legislature just flipped blue after 2 decades (minus one term for the state senate) of being under republican charge. This and many other state elections that were pretty well guaranteed to go to the republicans are no longer guaranteed for them. Trump wrecked the GOP and it's only a matter of time before they're scrambling to do damage control.

edit
AND this just happened:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... dy-beshear

Kentucky just elected a democrat governor. Mitch's home state.

[Bishop149]

I'm very sorry, but as i said, Trump is your current chosen representative and does so for the entire country whether you like him or agree with him or not, so no i won't refrain from insulting America as a whole as you say. I prefer that better than to make it personal

Agreed. Very nearly half the country voted for him, tempting as it is Trump can't be dismissed as a project of the lunatic fringe.
The counter point that Vertigo is making of course is that just over half the country DIDN'T vote for him . . . but even so the most generous possible interpretation is that the US is deeply divided over Trump.
Given Mr Trump is the intersection of almost every bigotry going made manifest, this paints a picture of a country very much at war with itself on almost every possible front . . . . and it ain't pretty

[Vertigo 7]

The figures aren't quite accurate. It's estimated there were 250 million eligible voters in 2016 with just under 139 million votes cast. Trump received just under 63 million, and Clinton got just under 66 million votes. Based on those figures, Trump was voted for by ~25% of eligible voters. Point being, half of the country did not vote for him, or Clinton for that matter, but he received less votes than she did.

[RegisterMe]

Jim Jordan going on the Senate Intelligence Committee is the best oxymoron ever.

[Vertigo 7]

I thought he was in the house. But yeah, like anything is going to change... If you guys looked at the full transcripts that have been released, he's been present at all of the depositions thus far.

[felter]

So what happened last night, it looks like Trump once again endorsed a republican, namely Matt Bevin at a rally on Monday night just for the said Matt Bevin to lose to Democrat Andy Beshear. I don't know why any of them want to be endorsed by Trump as the majority of the times they then go on to loose whatever election they are in. I think one of the problems when Trump does go to these rallies to give his endorsements, he ends up making it all about himself rather than the other guy who it is supposed to be about. Take Monday night, he warned the audience at the rally that a Bevin loss could bolster the forces pushing for his impeachment. The thing is that is by doing that, he probably made it harder for the guy to win as currently the majority of Americans want Trump to be impeached, But all in all it was not a good night for republicans.

Just to add more fuel to the fire the women Juli Briskman who was fired for given the bird to Trump motorcade 2 years ago, was also elected to office last night.

[Bishop149]

Point being, half of the country did not vote for him, or Clinton for that matter, but he received less votes than she did.

Ok, to rephrase in light of that.
- "Nearly half of the voters that cared enough to vote at all, voted for Trump."
This is not better.

To anticipate the counter argument of: People just didn't want to vote for either!
1) That is a stinging indictment of your entire political system.
2) If all (or even just most of) those non voters had voted for a third party, they would have won.
3) It's DONALD TRUMP!!! . . . . don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Hilary, shes awful, but Goddamn I would have held my nose and voted for her anyway if the alternative was DONALD TRUMP!!

[RegisterMe]

I thought he was in the house.

Yeah you're right. I still get my House and Senate etc mixed up on occasion.

[Vertigo 7]

Point being, half of the country did not vote for him, or Clinton for that matter, but he received less votes than she did.

Ok, to rephrase in light of that.
- "Nearly half of the voters that cared enough to vote at all, voted for Trump."
This is not better.

To anticipate the counter argument of: People just didn't want to vote for either!
1) That is a stinging indictment of your entire political system.
2) If all (or even just most of) those non voters had voted for a third party, they would have won.
3) It's DONALD TRUMP!!! . . . . don't get me wrong, I'm no fan of Hilary, shes awful, but Goddamn I would have held my nose and voted for her anyway if the alternative was DONALD TRUMP!!

I'll be honest, prior to his campaign, I didn't know much about Trump. I've never cared to watch The Apprentice or other "reality TV shows". I never gave a rats ass about the Miss Universe pageants. Other than hearing his name mentioned here and there, I just didn't give a damn enough to look into the ding bat. In the early, early days of his campaign, I had an open mind and was willing to give him a chance. That evaporated pretty quickly.

I mentioned before I have no party loyalty; I don't care what party a candidate is in. What I care about is their character. So, for 2016, I didn't vote for either one of them. I cast a protest vote for a giant meteor. I will always vote my conscience. Regardless, voter turnout has been a problem here for quite some time. A couple of posts back I pointed out it's been in the 50 percent range for quite a while now.

There's a multitude of reasons why some people don't vote. Some feel that their vote doesn't matter. I don't really blame them for that. Too many politicians are in it for themselves and the average Joe isn't adequately represented in government. I don't think that's ever going to change until corporate lobbying is outlawed. Some hate the entire process, IE standing in line for hours - Rules for early voting or absentee ballots vary from state to state, where the more typical republican states make it difficult to do either in efforts to suppress minority voters and more democrat states happily allow you to vote through the mail. And then there's the big reason that voting takes place on a ****** Tuesday instead of over the weekend when most people aren't working . Not everyone is afforded time off work to go vote, and after putting in a full day, I wouldn't be thrilled to go stand in line waiting to vote. I really don't know why this is still a thing.

There's a lot of things that need to change with our electorate for people to be truly engaged and feel that they are part of the process. For starters, this 2 party system we have is just the worst. We really need 1 or more additional parties equal in popularity to the DNC or RNC. More importantly, the electoral college needs to be abolished. It's an ancient system put in place where educated adults were few and far between and the general public was not informed enough to be trusted with choosing a president. Clearly, that is no longer the case. I could go on but I think you get the idea.

[Vertigo 7]

Roger Stone's trial started today. This guy, yet another Trump stooge, is so freaking classy. Only the best people!

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... s-campaign

Months ago, the judge placed a gag order on Stone, banning him from using social media to talk about the case. He violated her order, including by posting a picture of the judge with crosshairs next to her on Instagram.

Toss this tool under the jail, please.