Elite: Dangerous looks better already!

[felter]

Can I just say, ALPHA TEST.

[Observe]

Can I just say, ALPHA TEST.

As long as you don't say PREORDER. Not around here at least.

[felter]

I've already bought it, along with more than a few others here.

[Oldman]

I agree with RegisterMe. People expect a new Elite to have ships that look similar to the ones from the original game--which was designed to run on 2MHz 8-bit computers with less than 64K of RAM! Thus, in order to meet both the memory and processing constraints, those ships looked very simple. What they're doing (and rather well, IMHO) is taking those simple, very low-polygon models and adding enough detail to make them interesting, *without* losing the essential identity of the original ship.

I'm tempted to ask on the Frontier forums (but I won't btw ) if they'd perhaps skin a few of the ships hulls (ones I always liked in the previous series), with a soft fur like material coating, just so's I can give 'em a really big hug when they appear again, in the finished game!

Can I just say, ALPHA TEST.

Yes, Yes!... you can, no problem!
I'll be looking more closely at your statement though if it said 'GAMMA' (when the time comes )

...As long as you don't say PREORDER. Not around here at least.

Damn!....Two months without my medication...thought I'd cracked it, then I read this. It's...starting...again....the nightmares are coming back...Nooooo!


Oldman

[Alee Enn]

I'm tempted to ask on the Frontier forums (but I won't btw ) if they'd perhaps skin a few of the ships hulls (ones I always liked in the previous series), with a soft fur like material coating, just so's I can give 'em a really big hug when they appear again, in the finished game!

I've been pushing to have different ship skins since the Kickstarter, even having custom designed skins that you'd have to submit to Frontier for approval.

Re: Low Poly Models - Yeah OK, they don't look the most fantastic ships ever, but as has been mentioned Frontier have to have the old ships in the game, and still be recognisable. Fancy graphics are not everything, and the fans who have backed the game aren't demanding fancy graphics. Maybe that's a mistake, maybe it isn't, we'll have to wait and see on that one.

[muppetts]

Gameplay makes a game not eye candy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDWnBJYTFgs

looks yummy

[Avis]

I agree with RegisterMe. People expect a new Elite to have ships that look similar to the ones from the original game...

Exactly my thoughts, not only that but lets face it looking back over the X series there is no consistency at all in ship design which I have always thought was a mistake, as the original ships should have been redesigned and updated which is the rout they are going with ED.

Like Frontier though I'd imagine there will be new more imaginative designs (Imperial ships for instance).

[brucewarren]

I'm still holding out for a Fer De Lance with sharks teeth painted on the prow.

[Ketraar]

Gameplay makes a game not eye candy.

Stating this evident fact in this strongly fashion, should make it incontestable as such, unfortunately it contains a rather big portion of self-righteousness, that covers the bit where its incorrect. Gameplay being obviously a big part of playing games, its a false premise to thing "eye candy" is not important as well. Say you play Myst (specially from Exile onwards) then I'd say graphics makes for 50% of the game and sound 30%, leaving 20% for the rest, where gameplay is included. Its sound and visuals that will set the environment allowing the player to immerse in it and make great game experience. This you will find to be true in a lot of games that use immersion to give the player good good game experience.

Sure there are some that dont depend heavily on graphics to be good games, but dismissing the power of good environment is just silly. No matter how much I loved X-BTF, I could not go back and enjoy it nearly as much today as I did back then, in fact I gave it a try a few months ago and it was just horrible, being used to TC/AP Graphics.

If ED will need cutting edge graphics to be a good game experience remains to be seen, sure wont dismiss any game up front for it. My point was in regard of the duality of praise, where prior to release people were so upset about the low quality of graphics in Rebirth, now dismissing them in ED as not important. Just thought it was kinda funny to note.

MFG

Ketraar

[RegisterMe]

Equally some people like me thought the graphics in Rebirth were excellent (ignoring FOV, cockpit and GUI), whilst the gameplay was horrible.

So not everybody can be tarred with the same brush.

It's very subjective, but for me "good enough" graphics (which is equally subjective) plus great gameplay > amazing graphics with shallow gameplay.

I'm never going to get into poly counts or this or that graphics tech, I just don't know enough about it .

[brucewarren]

I have to agree.

Poor graphics that wreck the immersion = bad, but at the same time there's also a reasonable point to stop imo. There's a just enough point - a point where you're fully immersed and where further work is wasted on the player.

Myst was all about the graphics, but generally you were standing there wondering how to solve the next puzzle, so you could afford to stand around admiring how good it all looked, whereas when you've got 15 police vipers on your tail, you're not going to be trying to read the registration plates or make out the exquisite detail of the meshes - you're going to be ducking, weaving and trying to RSLG out of there.

The other thing about graphics is that if you spend too much effort on them, you can alienate all the guys who can't afford the latest Wizz-bang gfx cards.

The only thing I know about poly counts is that it's very easy to generate a ridiculous number of polygons. The one time I tried a mesh generating 3d program I fell right into this trap. With a few clicks of the mouse I had designed a train seat that had a million polygons. Completely useless. What's hard is to make each polygon count - ie make a believable mesh that looks right without overloading the poor gfx card. Imo Mr Chris Roberts's genius is not that Star Citizen has a high poly count, but that the ones he uses work - they create the impression of real objects and while the requirements are much higher than poor my rig could handle, you won't need the Met Office to lend you their supercomputer in order to run it.

[Skism]

Equally some people like me thought the graphics in Rebirth were excellent (ignoring FOV, cockpit and GUI), whilst the gameplay was horrible.

So not everybody can be tarred with the same brush.

It's very subjective, but for me "good enough" graphics (which is equally subjective) plus great gameplay > amazing graphics with shallow gameplay.

I'm never going to get into poly counts or this or that graphics tech, I just don't know enough about it .

This^

In fact I even did a crappy review where I said pretty much that. (over the course of an hour)

There is a reason why some old games are still sold: game play

Deus Ex has horrible graphics but truly awesome gameplay - which is why it has a following to this day.

Theif deadly shadows has decent graphics (I think) and awesome gameplay if you wanted to pick at its graphics you could but who cares? its a well made game.

Deus Ex HR has really good graphics and quite good gameplay which is why it is a pretty good game although its well thought out and executed as a game it does not have quite the awesomeness of the original.

For a really good (bad) example of where gameplay in a series has gone down the toilet check splinter cell at the start of the series if you screwed up you where dead period. Now later on yo have all sorts of ways to make the game more 'accessable' as well as very pretty grapics and take down animations, and warnings for the player, did not get any of those warnings from the originals, guard you did not see walks up to you a mows you down in under a second at point blank range whY because I the player did not think to look behind a door

the lesson the player was taught is that complacency in stealth = death as well as level restart, now we have pretty graphics and easy boring gameplay.


the Eye candy description is accurate graphics add to a game but they do not make a game It is gameplay that makes a game

[kurush]

Speaking of graphics and immersion, I can still play FFE remakes available online. There are some with minor face-lifts for the graphics, but others just make the old game work on new hardware. For me it still has more immersion than anything X series or Freelancer had to offer because it had the damned physics right. If you have an orbiter, it orbits the planet and if you are on this planet, you can watch it going circles. As far as I know, it was the only game that managed to do this properly and it was like 20+ years ago.
If Braben gets this in ED, I'll be happy with just a minor face lift to whatever graphics he had before. Obviously, he is going for much prettier universe though. My biggest concern is gameplay. FFE gamplay, while being very nice for 20 years old game, is still not something you would expect from a modern game. And all those multiplayer talks are not really promising. You get multiplayer when you lack good single-player ideas. I can't wait until the beta finaly starts.

[Ketraar]

the Eye candy description is accurate graphics add to a game but they do not make a game It is gameplay that makes a game

Sorry its not, you can Bold, underline and Colour the hell out of it as much as the forum software permits, it will NOT make that statement true.

A game consists of various elements, gameplay being one of them. Some games are heavy on one side, some are heavy on another. The Myst vs GTA analogy by brucewarren pretty much explains it. If Myst had bad graphics it would be a bad game, cause it NEEDS the graphics for the environment, sound and story and all that.

Portal uses gameplay to shine and less eye candy darn good game. Obviously games need to adjust the amount of effort put in each segment to create the right amount of each to make the game shine, which is the hard bit. Also its obvious that everyone would have their own set of measurements to decide what a games has to be like for their likings, all I was contesting is the use of absolutes, which is not correct.

MFG

Ketraar

[Samuel Creshal]

Portal uses gameplay to shine and less eye candy darn good game.

It actually uses quite a lot, just very subtly – the see-through portal effect itself is more or less unique eye candy, yet absolutely vital to such a visual game.

You could make a Portal-like puzzle game in 2D, or in 3D without, but it simply wouldn't work.

[Cpt.Jericho]

I wonder why people actually bothered playing text-adventures back in the 80s.

[Morkonan]

Gameplay gives a game staying power, encourages replays and generates legions of fans. But, it's the little Bells and Whistles and Shiny Bits that usually catch the gameplayer's eye. Otherwise, they're not going to hang around long enough to learn "gameplay."

However, there are some gamers that find certain sorts of Bells and Whistles and Shiny Bits appealing, where others would think them lame. Dwarf Fortress, anyone? The 8-bit re-revolution? Minecraft? Dungeons of Dreadmore?

It's not "state of the art" graphics that appeal, every time to every player. But, usually, the graphics are the hook that keeps the player long enough for them to learn and enjoy the gameplay... or not.

[RegisterMe]

I wonder why people actually bothered playing text-adventures back in the 80s.

I don't know, you kids today.

When I was a lad, in the seconds spare to me in the 28 hour days I had to work down pit, with no light, no food, no water, no mine (craft) and a dead donkey to not haul the back breaking (my back) ore away, in return for the generosity of my evil step-father (actually a wacko sadist nun in drag), 8 days a week, 5 weeks a month, 13 months a year, I had nowt to play with except my feeble imagination, and tailings that the not-donkey forgot about (that's me, included), so I had to use my...

imagination.

And it were magic.

[brucewarren]

Did you ever return Hermione's Time Turner then?

[Morkonan]

I wonder why people actually bothered playing text-adventures back in the 80s.

How could you not play these?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hitch ... eo_game%29

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather_G ... _of_Phobos

I mean, come on! Where's your imagination? Did it get eaten by a grue or something?