Part three of Steam debate - split and archived.

[TEKing66]

When X3TC came out I didn't buy it until I was able to get a DVD version. But, I did later order the Superbox direct from the Egosoft store site. I have not put either into Steam, even to be able to get AP for free. My reason being that Steam makes it harder for me to "get" my games installed. Also, If I want to keep a seperate install that is unmodded to test with, well there is another hurdle.

Again, this all boils down to a crappy internet connection. I might not be so negative toward Steam if it were not for that limitation. But a service like Steam, Netflix, etc. all assume one thing, and that is, that the people using that service have a broadband connection. Again, I'm fine with that as well. Due to my internet connection, I personally never go to Youtube, Facebook, Netflix, Yahoo, etc.! Am I missing out on a lot of stuff, yea, maybe. But being an X fan tends to make you miss a lot of that anyway. But, I find it hard to use any of the above mentioned services. So I refrain from using them. Sadly, Steam is one of those services.

I just don't really understand why all game companies have to go completely Steam. I understand that Steam offers a very, very broad customer base. Not a problem with me in the least, I say go for it. But, why is a Steam free DVD such a bad thing? Why does it have to "go away"? If it works, why change it?

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

I just don't really understand why all game companies have to go completely Steam. I understand that Steam offers a very, very broad customer base. Not a problem with me in the least, I say go for it. But, why is a Steam free DVD such a bad thing? Why does it have to "go away"? If it works, why change it?

You answered your own question there really. There are a number of features that Steam offers that are very, very attractive to developers not least of which, as you said, is the rather large installed customer base. There was for example a peak record of 5 million concurrent users over the christmas period. For a developer advertising their game in one of Steams ad slots that's an almost guaranteed 5 million people that will have at least had some marketing exposure to their game.

In short tho, because there is a much higher cost involved in releasing and maintaining a physical media version and the returns on it are less which means there comes a point where the men that look after the money add up the numbers and the business case for the physical media option starts to look financially unsupportable when compared to what Steam is offering.

[NeverSnake]

In short tho, because there is a much higher cost involved in releasing and maintaining a physical media version and the returns on it are less which means there comes a point where the men that look after the money add up the numbers and the business case for the physical media option starts to look financially unsupportable when compared to what Steam is offering.

Compared to what Digital Distribution is offering. Steam is not, and should never be, the only choice for online purchase and download of games.

[Slashman]

In short tho, because there is a much higher cost involved in releasing and maintaining a physical media version and the returns on it are less which means there comes a point where the men that look after the money add up the numbers and the business case for the physical media option starts to look financially unsupportable when compared to what Steam is offering.

Compared to what Digital Distribution is offering. Steam is not, and should never be, the only choice for online purchase and download of games.

I'm not sure anyone actually said that it should.

Publishers and developers choose where they want their games to be sold. It's kind of a given that they would choose the most successful digital platform. That said, I've seen Steamworks games sold on other digital distribution platforms. I've just not seen them make a non-Steamworks version for the other platforms.

Impulse did the same thing with their Sins series and Demigod...and that didn't change until Gamestop bought them out.

You can't blame Steam for being successful. The other digital distro companies have had the same market to make an impact in. D2D, Impulse, GOG, GMG, Amazon etc.

Also, the fact that those other companies continue to exist would seem to suggest that Steam isn't the only choice.

[NeverSnake]

Publishers and developers choose where they want their games to be sold. It's kind of a given that they would choose the most successful digital platform.

That said, I've seen Steamworks games sold on other digital distribution platforms. I've just not seen them make a non-Steamworks version for the other platforms.

A given? It's absurd.

To put it in different terms, imagine a publisher giving exclusive distribution rights for a game to 'GameCo' stores. These stores have loud music beating in the background and train their staff in a style of serving customers that not everyone gets on with. You can 'buy' the game in other stores but all you get given is a voucher, you still have to go into GameCo to pick up your copy.

Although that aspect doesn't particularly bother me, it's up to the publisher how they want to distribute their game and I have no problem buying from valve or downloading through steam.

I mainly consider a steam requirement a downside for a game because of how badly the steam client works, it's almost complete inflexibility and it's insistence on working in only way one regardless of how you generally play games.

[perkint]

I just don't really understand why all game companies have to go completely Steam

I suspect Steam make the package more attractive to the publisher/dev if they go Steam/SteamWorks exclusive...

Tim

[dougeye]

no disrespect or age-ism intended but it would be interesting to see whether there is a difference in age group between the people who are ok with steam and the people who hate its very existence lol

[Alan Phipps]

@ dougeye: We shall never know the age breakdown on this forum (deliberately so).

However, Steam/Valve might publish general stats on the demographics of their user-base. If that could be compared with stats of generic computer-gamer age distributions from an independent overlying review then it would somewhat indicate the age-acceptance levels for Steam. Whether any conclusions could or should be drawn from them is another matter!

[NUKLEAR-SLUG]

I mainly consider a steam requirement a downside for a game because of how badly the steam client works, it's almost complete inflexibility and it's insistence on working in only way one regardless of how you generally play games.

Badly how? The client works perfectly well, application crashes are rare as an honest politician.

As for inflexibility. Installation location is optional, you're not tied to installing it in a fixed location, you can shove it on any drive you care to. Symbolically linking you could even smear it across several drives were you so inclined.

Aside from a few registry entries the Steam folder is almost completely self-contained so re-installation is as simple as copying the steam folder in its entirety to it's new location and then running the Steam executable. 30 secs later job done.

You're not forced to run in an always on internet connected state, there's provision made for working offline be it by choice or because you have limited connectivity.

All the principle features Steam offers. Ads, Steam friends, community pages, in-game browser, hardware surveys etc. are all optional and you can make use of as many or as few as you care to bother with or opt out as you see fit.

So inflexible how?

[Eggplant]

Why isn't there an option for just "YES"? I always buy my games from steam if avaliable. I'm in the military so I move alot. I can't afford to cart around tubs and tubs full of old video games.

Honestly, the only deal breaker I have on PC games now is requiring an online connection to start/play a game. Especialy if it's single player. I don't mind so much for a special mode like DiD for the Squid in AP, but that's okay cuz I can still play the normal game.

on an aside- I love the Silent Hunter games but I REFUSE to pay them money to play SH5 because it is ONLINE ONLY!! Sorry it might be 2011 but still only 30% of the world has internet access. Even europe only has about 58% of the population online.

[TEKing66]

Eggplant, That is exactly my point, changing to Steam as a "sole" provider of a companies game does mean that some of the people that would have purchased the game will not. And so, customers are won but at the same time customers are lost. When producing a DVD with out Steam would keep everyone happy. If I had not been happy with Egosoft's products I would not have stayed around this long. And everyone knows that once a customer moves on, usually they stay gone.

I know for certain that I will not purchase the game if it is on Steam only.
Nothing that anyone has said here has changed my mind about that. I have heard nothing here that has made me believe that there is any reason for this move but greed. I do think that by making a move to Steam as Egosoft's sole provider of the games they produce is a bad move. They will alienate a considerable amount of thier dedicated fans/customers. These are facts, though they may not be provable.

Just the simple fact that, in truth, it is nearly impossible to use Steam unless you have a broadband connection is enough to scare me away.

So simply put from my prespective, (any game + Steam) = What game!

And to anyone who may be thinking "Oh, when it comes done to it he'll cave and buy it!", guess again! I simply will not do it!

You want Steam, Fine!

I don't want Steam, so I guess the game is not for me!

[strude]

I know for certain that I will not purchase the game if it is on Steam only.
Nothing that anyone has said here has changed my mind about that. I have heard nothing here that has made me believe that there is any reason for this move but greed. I do think that by making a move to Steam as Egosoft's sole provider of the games they produce is a bad move. They will alienate a considerable amount of thier dedicated fans/customers. These are facts, though they may not be provable.

"I do think that ...". Starting a sentence this way implies this is your opinion, not fact.

They will alienate some number of fans is fact. Saying "a considerable amount" is speculation, not fact.

[the-danzorz]

. These are facts, though they may not be provable

If it is not provable, is isn't a fact. Otherwise my below statements would be a true.

God is real, it may not be provable but it is a fact... also God isn't real, it may not be provable but it is a fact...

See what did there (A)

[perkint]

I do think that by making a move to Steam as Egosoft's sole provider of the games they produce is a bad move. They will alienate a considerable amount of thier dedicated fans/customers. These are facts, though they may not be provable.

"I do think that ...". Starting a sentence this way implies this is your opinion, not fact.

They will alienate some number of fans is fact. Saying "a considerable amount" is speculation, not fact.

Actually, to carry on the theme of being pedantic (sorry - couldn't resist ) he said "I do think [...]" so if he says that's what he thinks, you have no real grounds to dispute it as not being fact I know it's not really what he meant, but the way it's phrased is stating it's a fact that he thinks that, not necessarily that what he thinks is fact.

And "a considerable amount" is a vague enough phrase as to be able to justify it, even if you just count the 300+ that have replied on these polls.

Tim

[perkint]

Why isn't there an option for just "YES"?

The thread was started to see how much support there was for a non steam version, so "Yes" wouldn't really be relevant...

Although you could argue that "[even] If Steam required periodic log-ins to check your install" or "For activation and updates" are simply variations on "Yes", anyway!

Tim

[TEKing66]

@ strude
That is my opinion, and no where in that sentence do I call it a fact.

Though I should not have used the "These are facts" in the last sentence in that paragraph. I will grant that and admit that I was wrong to do that.
But, by moving to Steam only, I do believe that Egosoft will alienate some of thier costumers.

@ the-danzorz
OK, so yea, I am an idiot!

But it seems that if Pro-Steamers can't convince 'em, then tear apart everything they say. Fine, whatever floats your boat. All I am after is to be able to play the game as I always have, nothing more, nothing less. My apoligies if that hurts anyone's feelings, that is not my intention at all.

[the-danzorz]

@ the-danzorz
OK, so yea, I am an idiot!

You're not at all an idiot don't worry i have made way worse mistakes. I found it sort of funny that's all

As for your reasons against steam, because it really does require a broadband connection. It is a honest reason against steam and its valid and no 1 can debunk that reason at all. ISP in certain countries can really provide high speed to everyone and thats just a fact.

However i would still recommend the following if you want to play the game.

Install Steam, Disable Auto Updates, News etc. Then block it with the firewall from connecting online. As long as it isn't doing a steam update at that time. (steam updates are very small. barely a few meg). The game will be unable to update and will remain activated. This should fix your broadband issue.... however i must be on and state this is purely a theory. i lost my net for 3 months and was still able to access my steam account on offline mode and all of my games were fine.

[Freeman_79]

Just Pre-ordered the game... Without Steam ofc

[the-danzorz]

Just Pre-ordered the game... Without Steam ofc

How, i thought it was steam only? do explain as this will finally end this thread

[perkint]

Chances are its a preorder of the boxed version from a retailer guessing at the release date. And if so, it'll still be SteamWorks...

Tim

[edit] just checked - Amazon have it available for preorder but no release date