[MOD/Script] LI Freight Distribution Network (FDN) - v7.2 21/11/2010

[mostlikely]

When a station is under FDN control it's allow trade with NPC is set to No. Or should I leave this to player control?

I'd say leave it completely to the player to control or make it a global option (ie. -Disable npc trading while stations are under player control on/off).

I'm not sure there are any big problems with having only 1 point for all npc's to trade with in a sector but it's nice to at least have the option not to.



Also I noticed that in some cases (while using SETA) the 3*resources per cycle every 3 minutes was not enough to keep a station completely supplied (the script must have skipped or the station had an unlucky timed cycle?)
Either way would it perhaps be an idea to have a global (or whatever) option to control the 'multiplier' of resources needed per cycle that is maintained every 3 minutes?
I was toying with the suggestion of an option to 'keep a station fully stocked on resources' but couldn't really find concrete arguments to support it (apart from 'other' trade script behavior).
However it's nice to at least increase/decrease the stock that is maintained if the players want a little more (or a little less) slack.

[apricotslice]

Yes, missed that. Make it player choice for npc's docking.

One thing to check, ecells - if they are not a product, but are overproducing, whats the margin left when the FDN-N beams them out ?

3 minutes sounds like a long time between beams. I'd be thinking 1 minute myself. Or even 30 seconds.

For example, if your seriously producing space fuel, and you have many locations selling it, then they can run dry in 30 seconds and thats lost profits until the next beam time.

Another option is to make the cycle time player selectable. But personally, I'd have it running constantly without a break.

[mostlikely]

For example, if your seriously producing space fuel, and you have many locations selling it, then they can run dry in 30 seconds and thats lost profits until the next beam time.

What's the cycle time of a space fuel distillery? (or is there any website that has cycle-time information)
I was under the impression that in general cycle times are around 2-3 minutes so 3 times the cycle time resource requirement per 3 minutes was generous.

An option to alter the FDN resource distribution cycle time is an idea however I would personally set the cycle time 'higher (ie more then 3 minutes)' and the amount kept in stock higher if I get the option for both.
Short cycle times and lower stock uses more cpu resources compared to longer cycle times and higher stock but (storage permitting) both have the same effect.

Anyways.. what's the shortest 'factory' cycle time.. that's what it all boils down to.

[apricotslice]

Well, say your building a product in 3 different locations, you could have product coming off every 30 seconds, even though its 1.5 minutes cycle time.

The cycle time for things like wheat is quite short.

[Logain Abler]

I use 50 mill space on my phq, so 90 mill seems fine to me.

Cool, I’ll have a play with various amounts for the M, L & XL versions. At leats the volumes I’m looking at aren’t to unrealistic.

It appears as if your modding a new station to use as the FDN-N ???

BTW, exactly how are you getting a dock to use the phq space definition ?

I’ve added a new Dock to the TDock file, SS_DOCK_A_FDNN and added an upgrade ref to the SS_DOCK_A_FDNN on the hq.xml file, which is also in the types folder.

I’m at work at the moment but when I get home I’ll email you the hq.xml pre & post edit.

I'd say leave it completely to the player to control or make it a global option (ie. -Disable npc trading while stations are under player control on/off).

I'm not sure there are any big problems with having only 1 point for all npc's to trade with in a sector but it's nice to at least have the option not to.

Good point, I’ll leave as is. Not that there will be any Products left in the station to trade with as they all go to the FDN-N. Not thought of the implications on NPC trade .

Also I noticed that in some cases (while using SETA) the 3*resources per cycle every 3 minutes was not enough to keep a station completely supplied (the script must have skipped or the station had an unlucky timed cycle?)
Either way would it perhaps be an idea to have a global (or whatever) option to control the 'multiplier' of resources needed per cycle that is maintained every 3 minutes?

I’ve played around with a few option and 3 * cycle every three minutes looks fine and I’ve left it on SETA for half a day with no issues.

The 3 minutes is defined in the AL plugin timer event. Not sure if this can be player set? Still learning as I go along and at 37 it takes a while to pick things up

One thing to check, ecells - if they are not a product, but are overproducing, what’s the margin left when the FDN-N beams them out ?

Another option is to make the cycle time player selectable. But personally, I'd have it running constantly without a break.

An option to alter the FDN resource distribution cycle time is an idea however I would personally set the cycle time 'higher (ie more then 3 minutes)' and the amount kept in stock higher if I get the option for both.
Short cycle times and lower stock uses more cpu resources compared to longer cycle times and higher stock but (storage permitting) both have the same effect.

Anyways.. what's the shortest 'factory' cycle time.. that's what it all boils down to.

@ apricotslice. Not seen any issues with E-Cells, can you advise on a setup (example of station loop) and I’ll test.

I was looking for a trade off on optimised time & load on the game engine/PC. I’m okay as I’ve got a high end PC, but not everyone has.

Anyways.. what's the shortest 'factory' cycle time.. that's what it all boils down to.

I think this is 1 min, so 3 * 3 works well. For stations with slower times, FDN checks what the current stock level is and only sends what is needed to maintain the 3 * cycle level.


LA

[mostlikely]

Well, say your building a product in 3 different locations, you could have product coming off every 30 seconds, even though its 1.5 minutes cycle time.

Multiple factories are not the problem. Even if a product comes off every 30 seconds each 'individual' factory is given resources every 3 minutes to last 3 cycles (or 4.5 minutes on a 1.5 cycle time).
So even if one of your factories starts it cycle right after they get their resources (worst case scenario) it will take 4.5 minutes before they need new resources again while they get new resources in 3.0 minutes.

Then again maybe we're talking about different things since you keep mentioning 'products'. But I only see a problem with resources if factory cycle times go below 1 minute.

[Logain Abler]

Well, say your building a product in 3 different locations, you could have product coming off every 30 seconds, even though its 1.5 minutes cycle time.

Multiple factories are not the problem. Even if a product comes off every 30 seconds each 'individual' factory is given resources every 3 minutes to last 3 cycles (or 4.5 minutes on a 1.5 cycle time).
So even if one of your factories starts it cycle right after they get their resources (worst case scenario) it will take 4.5 minutes before they need new resources again while they get new resources in 3.0 minutes.

Then again maybe we're talking about different things since you keep mentioning 'products'. But I only see a problem with resources if factory cycle times go below 1 minute.

Bingo That's what my testing has shown. You can increase the time between as long as you increase the * Cycle sent, so 4*4, 5*5 and so on work. 3 * 3 for me showed the best synergy.

LA

[mostlikely]

I think this is 1 min, so 3 * 3 works well. For stations with slower times, FDN checks what the current stock level is and only sends what is needed to maintain the 3 * cycle level.

If it's really 1 minute then giving 'exactly' the amount of resources it needs for 3 minutes every 3 minutes is cutting it too close I think. Maybe it's different for 100's of factories but I have a simple 2 factory setup, there is never any shortage in the supplier but I did see the consumer flash yellow.

I don't see what would be so bad to at least transfer '4' times the resources needed per cycle every 3 minutes. So you have at least some backup resources if for example you turned the FDN off for a few seconds and then back on.

Being able to configure the amount is best ofc.

[apricotslice]

I’ve added a new Dock to the TDock file, SS_DOCK_A_FDNN and added an upgrade ref to the SS_DOCK_A_FDNN on the hq.xml file, which is also in the types folder.

I’m at work at the moment but when I get home I’ll email you the hq.xml pre & post edit.

@ apricotslice. Not seen any issues with E-Cells, can you advise on a setup (example of station loop) and I’ll test.

I was looking for a trade off on optimised time & load on the game engine/PC. I’m okay as I’ve got a high end PC, but not everyone has.

Hooley dooley, I have to see how you did that !

If the docks are modifyable, that would be very useful.

Complex loop, err........put it this way, I've got a complex doing 1mj, wheat, Telad and microchips. They all sell out quick.

But it has 5 ore mines, and 4 silicon mines, 13 fabs, 5 cahoona L and Cattle L, and an XL, 2 L and 2 M SPP's. Was a real b*tch to get stable.

Now it makes a lot of spare ecells, now up in the 300k mark, I'm trucking out Ore in 3 huge cargo ships almost as fast as it makes the stuff and its starting to slowly accumulate cahoonas.

Its short on Silicon, so if I made some elsewhere, it would probably import some to top up periodically.

This is in Antigone Memorial by the way, using all the roids in 1 complex.

Product wise, its no problem. Its main use would be for sending ecells and ore elsewhere. But given that getting it started again is a real b*tch if it say ran out of silicon accidently, it would need about 100k to get properly working again if it totally stopped.

I'd feel more comfortable on secondary resources, if it only took whats above say 20 cycles worth of production, leaving a good buffer in case anything went wrong.

The other issue is adding to complexes too. If you dont ahve an ecell buffer, and you add 1 too many stations, it can go down so fast that the whole complex grinds to a halt before you can get more ecell production running.

So the distribution process really should allow a buffer on ecells and resources to allow for 'player mistakes'.

Although technically, if you have a huge store of ecells somewhere else, the flow will simply reverse if you get into negative production, so maybe it isnt a problem until you run out of ecells.

[Logain Abler]

I think this is 1 min, so 3 * 3 works well. For stations with slower times, FDN checks what the current stock level is and only sends what is needed to maintain the 3 * cycle level.

If it's really 1 minute then giving 'exactly' the amount of resources it needs for 3 minutes every 3 minutes is cutting it too close I think. Maybe it's different for 100's of factories but I have a simple 2 factory setup, there is never any shortage in the supplier but I did see the consumer flash yellow.

I don't see what would be so bad to at least transfer '4' times the resources needed per cycle every 3 minutes. So you have at least some backup resources if for example you turned the FDN off for a few seconds and then back on.

Being able to configure the amount is best ofc.

That sounds doable , I't not actually 180 seconds, it's 170

LA

[Logain Abler]

Hooley dooley, I have to see how you did that !

If the docks are modifyable, that would be very useful.

Without it the FDN-N would not have been workable, I'll be adding the M, L & LX version when I get in. I'll email you the cat & hq.xml file.

I can't take credit for the find . From my research it's been used a lot on other Dock & Equipment Dock mods.

LA

[apricotslice]

Ah, you found all those secret changes I've never found

[Logain Abler]

Apricotslice,

Your loop sound fun to manage . I'll have a play tonight and script lots of complexes in with intermediates in. I have a few but not many. If a Station can sell a ware it's passed to FDN-N. If the station needs it, then FDN-N must be passing it back. Need to look at that as I've not taken it into account , should be okay to add a check if resource and leave a set amount there.

That's why throwing ideas out there pays, you read something and

LA

[apricotslice]

You need to check if a resource is being undermade and supply extra.

You need to check if its being grossly overmade and remove the excess.

Hmmm, thought : An on demand report of each complex or station would be useful (to the player log), that shows the last event in detail (detail the vent, not 1 station per request). So if a complex is undermaking, it will show us as a resource going in instead of no activity or going out. Likewise, if its overmaking, it will show as being beamed out. Would help to analyse what your overall manufacturing is doing.

[Logain Abler]

Hi,

Another quick progress update

I now have 4 versions of the FDN-N in game and available from all good Argon Shipyards:

[ external image ]

Storage:
XL – 9000000
L – 7000000
M – 5000000
S – 3000000

I’m still playing around with which in-game models to use. Scripted in some secret Aldrin base/rock monster and killed half a sector

You can see the price from the screen shot. What are peoples thoughts on the price & storage?


LA

[apricotslice]

I must have added a zero when I looked earlier.

My PHQ mod gives it 50 mill in cargo space. I notice your XL is only 9 mill.

I'd like to see you up those significantly. Say, 50, 30, 20, 10.

I'd also like to see them somewhat cheaper.

There is the original headquarters model there. Is that any good for using ? It would make it unique.

Edit : I tell you what else is available, Armageddon did a thing called the Complex Node Bazaar. Its basically a 'box' with a whole heap of nodes on it, for back when there was a node ctd issue in complex building. I think he'd be agreeable to using it for a new purpose, as a transport node for inter-sector transporting. In a sector with a complex, you add it to the complex. In a sector with stand alone stations, you complex it to 1 of them. In a sector with no stations, but in the chain of sectors that join the rest with your FDN, you drop it anywhere in the sector. Theres a link for it in the R mod list. Just needs the model extracted and renamed.

[Logain Abler]

I must have added a zero when I looked earlier.

My PHQ mod gives it 50 mill in cargo space. I notice your XL is only 9 mill.

I'd like to see you up those significantly. Say, 50, 30, 20, 10.

I'd also like to see them somewhat cheaper.

There is the original headquarters model there. Is that any good for using ? It would make it unique.

As always thanks for your input apricotslice

Okay, lets say 50Mil storage for XL at 19Mil cost, which is equivalent to a SPP XL, and then dropping from there

I'll have a look at the original HQ model


LA

[apricotslice]

Sounds better yes.

Check my edit on my last post, I added a suggestion.

[Logain Abler]

Sounds better yes.

Check my edit on my last post, I added a suggestion.

I'll check it out. Failing that it's GMax time

I'm extracting the X3:R cats now just to have a play.

LA

[apricotslice]

The original HQ that was never used, is still in the TC list, so the model should be there to use.