[BONUS Plug-In] Gunnery Crew turret plugin - Version 3.02

[bob hope]

may i like to add, that the lack of cargo space with the addition of the crews makes the price of the ray about right now, it was always too cheap for what it did!

also the same goes for the pricing of the teladi m2 that has masses of cargo space, now it just means you will have to buy an m1 for fleet supply uses, so ah well no complaint there

for an idea of where i see uncrewed gunners read deathstalker by simon r green, i agree where it says that ai systems are not the best option when in battle as an ai would logically use similar processes and therefore nullify each other, where the unpredictability of a human gunner would give them an edge!

i cant see where there is much wrong and most of the complaints are what i see as a way to try to implement stuff so when online is released tyhe changes are not a major shock

[stella]

Reven:

Didn't come across as antagonistic at all.

Gov't ships having crews would be fine. Unless it's the Royal Navy, of course, in which case half of them shouldn't even have guns, and the M1's wouldn't be getting any M3's until late 2009.

I've tried using Phoenix's (for their extra shield), Titans, and Oddys. I always use same ship type (ie 5x Oddy, or 5x titan), so that they all arrive at the same time.

I don't use "protect", since that forces the other ships to wait untill the one they're protecting gets fired on. I'm using an "attack enemies in range" script, which prioritises M2's, then calls the standard "attack enemy" routine.

No matter what way I do it, they get toasted. Just tried with 6 Phoenix's. They were all firing at the KM2, and, even with it's fire split among them, it got 2 of them.

[frymaster]

@ Reven:

Do you know why Paranid and Split AI don't get to use this? If anyone needs a better cap ship it's the split!

@stella:

don't know if you say my post about loadout for the pheonix, but if you didn't - adding 9 gHEPTs to your loadout will increase your firepower on the bottom/top/rear turrets when in close range.

[Small_CPU]

1. Whilst I don't have to hire gunnery crews, I'm now at a distinct disadvantage against other capital ships if I don't. Perhaps some NPC ships having them, and some not (like PSG's/IONs) would be an idea.

I like this idea. Perhaps "official" government ships can have them, but not the spawned capital ships from assassination missions.

Would this be a good compromise?

Personally I would like if those assasination mission capital ships keep the scripts. It makes them IMHO so much more fun to fight. Because without it, they're just cannon fodder. (Doesn't matter if I use the gunnery crew or not, they're just too weak.)

Secondly, I don't think Khaak M2s should be nerfed to much. Well, I've lost about 3 Titans against one of those beasts, but to keep it in ingame fiction thats ok for me if they're are that strong (They ARE supposed to be the overwhelming enemy race) and makes visiting their home sectors dangerous. It's not like we have to visit them and they aren't coming out of their sectors.

Of course that's just IMHO because I'm always for harder enemies, better AIs and an overall improvement in complecity.

Zum Grusse

~me

BTW. You're got a wunderfull job done with that script, Reven.
~me bows before your mighty scripting powers.

[stella]

frymaster:

Already done it. Doesn't make a difference. The ship's history in under 10 seconds, so it's dead before it's PPC bolts even hit the enemy.

[Greyhawk1]

@Reven - I have every respect for your scripting skills (I am not worthy ) however this one isnt for me. At the very least it highlights one of the unique things about X2. Any bonus stuff you dont like you simply dont have to use.

I would really like a full crew script where you have to actually buy navigators, engineers and other personnel to get your ship to move - provided the cost isnt too high (since its mainly for immersion purposes). That would be nice.

A full capship management side to the game would rock. Lay up times, refits, tours of duty, crew rosters, crew levels, supplies needed (like a factory!) and capship only missions - even non-combat ones (say, patrol a sector for three days for x money) or ferry a diplomat or other VIP from shipyard to shipyard etc.

IMO Capships are very under-represented in X2 (3rd party scripts notwithstanding).

[Reven]

Ok, I've had a chat with ticaki and did a little horse trading. I'm getting some changes pushed through right away:

• Crew requirements will be reduced by about 1/3
• Few more crew per transport will be put on the station.
• Crew will be left on the station for longer.
• Support for 4+ guns per turret (for modders)
• Support for the Orbital laser weapon (for modders)

This will have the effect of reducing the cargo space required by a third, and the crew costs by a third.

I am going to get these changes made ASAP, and ticaki has kindly agreed to work on testing and signing it right away.

[cynric]

thats good news

still searching for crew (got 7 so far) ...

[Carl Sumner]

Ok, I've had a chat with ticaki and did a little horse trading. I'm getting some changes pushed through right away

Great, I think this will help a lot.

[stella]

reven:

beware, mate - there's no such thing as a free lunch

[Reven]

reven:

beware, mate - there's no such thing as a free lunch

[stella]

They're gonna want something back.

[Junkie1975]

Ok, I've had a chat with ticaki and did a little horse trading. I'm getting some changes pushed through right away:

• Crew requirements will be reduced by about 1/3
• Few more crew per transport will be put on the station.
• Crew will be left on the station for longer.
• Support for 4+ guns per turret (for modders)
• Support for the Orbital laser weapon (for modders)

This will have the effect of reducing the cargo space required by a third, and the crew costs by a third.

I am going to get these changes made ASAP, and ticaki has kindly agreed to work on testing and signing it right away.

I've been reading these threads relating to this script, and I've been playing it for the past few days. I've held my comments in reserve just to see where things might lead.

I must say that I really like this script. I don't do unsigned scripts, and I like to play things straight and without cheats, and this really is a lot of fun for me. As it goes for this script, at first I was a bit unhappy with the cost of everything. 54 million is a lot, hunting for decent numbers of crew is a pain, and cargo space to hold any useable number of said crew is a headache. With that said, and seeing the proposed changes, I can deal with it now.

Yeah, 54 million is a lot, at one time, I thought that if it should be for 40 million and came with an initial number of crew for a start, but considering the benefits of capturing ships, and such, I see where it is worth every credit. The only downside to me really has been in getting the crew and storing them. Seeing that you plan on increasing the number dropped off, as well as decreasing the space required for them, it's perfect!

I don't mind the credit costs because this enforces the need to create your financial stability before playing with big boy toys. It separates the rookies from the pros.

The thing I would like to see changed is the hoarding of crew. I have been stalking transports like crazy to get crew, storing them on my Iguana and when the hold has 20-25 crew, I go and transport them to my Ray. So far, I have about 70 crew on my Ray. However, and I may be wrong about this, it seems that they get bored sitting on a ship and slowly go AWOL on me after a certain period of time. So in essence, by the time I get the numbers I want before transfering them, I may be adding 20 or so crew, but before getting that many, maybe 5 or more decide to jump ship, and I'm actually adding 15 and the rest is to replace the lost crew.

This just seems to force me to spend more time getting the ship ready to do anything useful than actually using it. Now I am aware of dropping ships in each Equipment Dock and all, but I prefer to do things manually.

Enough of my babbling. Revan, thanks for a great script, and also I thank you for being willing to lighten up the burden of those of us who want to use your script to it's full potential without feeling like we are being overly punished for such a powerful capability.

I'd also like to add that X2 kicks ass. I know of rare few games that are living and expansive and where users can have a say as to where the game can evolve next through scripts. It keeps it fresh, new, and forever playable. Can't say that for Doom 3, GTA, or other games these days.

Honoris Causa...
Silverblade

[Reven]

They're gonna want something back.

I assume you mean by "they" the ones who sign it (ticaki). Nope, the above changes have already been agreed to by him. We made some compromises - it's what we do. We've been doing that back and forth since the signing process started. We've had a lot of fun doing this. What I announced above, though, is not what I wanted and am trying to "get approved". What I announced were what has already been agreed to.

[Witchking]

Hey Reven, I really like the new script - Financially I'm a long way off be able to afford the Aegis System but I'm buying up all the crew that I can get my hands on. One question though, what happens to the Military Transports after the have unloaded some/all of their cargo, they seem to disappear. I tracked one tonight in Light of Heart which had 100 Personal aboard. It landed at the Trading Station and 5 Personal appeared for sale, after I bought them I left the station ready to follow him to his next destination. Far a couple of minutes he was still listed in the Landed Ships and when his name vanished I thought he had undocked but he simply disappeared. Is it a big deal to fix this cos it kind of ruins the immersion?

[therjw]

Hi reven I not sure if this is a bug but I follow a ship with something like 100 crew in it and when it docks it only drops of 10 crew members of that crew not the rest I saw the ship come out and it had 90 crew members but the name has changed? It annoying trying to track down all the men for an M2 when you only get ten or less at a time is there any way you can fix that? cheers

[frymaster]

that is/was behaviour by design; it turns out the game has another method of culling the troops as well, so I believe this is being toned down in the next release. It is MEANT to only allow a few for sale, though; the rationale being that most of the troops end up in military service rather than private. I suspect the rationale for the transports disappearing is that it would be more hassle otherwise!

[stella]

How about making crew availability depenant on AI cap ship numbers.

Blow up a couple of AI cap ships, and crew will be even more sparse until they've been replaced. Leave them alone for a while, and they should become more freely available - after all, they have nothing else to do.

[therjw]

yeh that true but the main problem is when I send a ship over to get them from my M2 they are gone by the time I get there so after 2 hours of hunting for them all I managed to get is 15 crew members

[Scarecrow]

Followed one to the ED in Antigone Memorial last night and got docked before he did......picked up 41 crew.

While I was on my way there I saw another MT undock and head for Home of light. Gonna see if I can still find him