Dark Son Rising - Prologue.

[SteveMill]

Thanks for the feedback - withdrawn pending redrafting.

[Mercenary]

Like it.

There's a couple of places where the style of the writing seems to change very slightly, or so it seems to me and breaks the flow.

i.e.

He did not weep even for the living death averted only by a stray recall of learning, for whatever the Fallen Star was, he was no coward to be unmanned by even such as that.

where the part, 'for whatever the Fallen Star was' doesn't flow as well as the rest. However move the word 'was' and read it out loud and it just seems to work better (well that's just my take on it)..

So the paragraph would read:

'He did not weep even for the living death averted only by a stray recall of learning, for whatever was the Fallen Star, he was no coward to be unmanned by even such as that.'

See what you think.

[SteveMill]

Thanks Merc - that's a good revision. It doesn't read well and I've changed it. The italic speech indicates the narrator speaking and hopefully it is in a different style to the rest of it. I was generally going for an antique feel in the prologue, grandiose. It will change in the actual body of the story.

[vader146]

Hey Steve d'u have an agent? If not you really should get one when you finish at uni. I can see you as the person that could make it as a pro (or whatever) writer

[SteveMill]

Hey Steve d'u have an agent? If not you really should get one when you finish at uni. I can see you as the person that could make it as a pro (or whatever) writer

Hey - what happened here? I deleted the content of this topic yesterday as no-one was interested and I'm using the site you recommended for feedback and now it's back.

No - haven't got an agent but I know a published author (and head of the creative writing dept) so I'm hoping when I've got about 10 more chapters done, I can show it to his agent.

And thanks for the good words - as I said on the other board - planning what you write on the basis of easily learned craft techniques gives you a huge head start, independent of any natural ability.

This prologue was crafted with the aim of meeting what over 300 years has been found to be the requirements of an opening chapter, modified for the genre. Rules are there to be broken of course - but that can only be done creatively once you are familiar with them.

I didn't work against a checklist but I knew I had to feed the reader important background details of the mythology, the magic system, the geography without it just being an indigestible knowledge dump. I also knew about establishing the 'wounded' and 'reluctant' hero to tap into the power of mythological story structure (the whole Joseph Campbell 'Hero with a Thousand Faces' thing as embodied in story writing approaches of Key, Mckee and others and as used explicitly in the writing of the original Star Wars film).

They argue - and I think they are broadly correct - the human mind is structured to respond on a deep level to stories told with a mythological framework and if you can embody that structure in your own story and attach archetypes to character roles you are well ahead of the game, you are working with the grain of the mind of the reader so to speak.

I keep banging on about this on this board because I know that there are several people here who have every bit as much writing ability as me and produce just as imaginative fiction and they could multiply the impact of their talent by standing on the shoulders of giants.

In so many ways writing is no different from joinery. You might have a sweeping vision of an ornate bit of furniture you want to make and you might be able to pick up a piece of wood and a bag of tools and by dint of hard work, build it. But if you knew beforehand how to use the correct tools and knew the how and what of different joints etc you'd produce a better realisation of your vision, quicker than just hacking away on inspiration alone.

Contrast the rambling opening of Rogues Testament (prologue was added later) to this and you can see what I mean. Rogue would have been a much better, much more focused and pleasing piece of writing if i'd read the Key books beforehand, and applied the techniques.

Disengaging preaching mode. Preaching mode disengaged.

Having said all that - I'm going to rewrite the non-narrative component this weekend to give it a completely different voice and feel. It's falling between two stools at the moment, needs to be punchier, with much more use of short sentences.

[vader146]

sounds good hope I can read that sometime

[pixel]

It evokes atmosphere well, but to be honest I find it a bit too heavy-going to read.

For me there is too much descriptive/flowery text.

As I said it does work well to portray the 'heavy' situation and it is certainly artisitic/poetic but it isn't my thing. I find it difficult to follow the flow. A bit like Tolkien was just too heavy going (though that is probably not a very good comparison).

But good luck on submission

[vader146]

I didn't find it like that at all. I like it really in-depth and well explained so I get a good mental image.

[pixel]

I didn't find it like that at all. I like it really in-depth and well explained so I get a good mental image.

each to their own

I respect that Steve can write something as artistic as he has, but I am a philistine

basically no-one is going to please everyone all the time. But I do REALLy like what I have seen of Steve's stories till now (hey, maybe this will grow on me )

IMO there are 2 main types, broadly speaking, of fantasy/sci-fi fan. One, like me, likes a good story set in a different plane, the other (or should I say t'other? ) likes to have the same thing but with a different style of writing that harks back to some perceived old-worlde [sic] style of story telling.

I am not judging, just stating which I prefer

Anyway, I know Steve welcomes both positive and -ve feedback, so I hope this is of use

[SteveMill]

It evokes atmosphere well, but to be honest I find it a bit too heavy-going to read.

For me there is too much descriptive/flowery text.

As I said it does work well to portray the 'heavy' situation and it is certainly artisitic/poetic but it isn't my thing. I find it difficult to follow the flow. A bit like Tolkien was just too heavy going (though that is probably not a very good comparison).

But good luck on submission

I agree, in the light of other feedback. I'm going to completely rewrite the parts not in italics and make it a different chapter, to make a clear break with the deliberate antiquity of the narrative voice.

[pixel]

It evokes atmosphere well, but to be honest I find it a bit too heavy-going to read.

For me there is too much descriptive/flowery text.

As I said it does work well to portray the 'heavy' situation and it is certainly artisitic/poetic but it isn't my thing. I find it difficult to follow the flow. A bit like Tolkien was just too heavy going (though that is probably not a very good comparison).

But good luck on submission

I agree, in the light of other feedback. I'm going to completely rewrite the parts not in italics and make it a different chapter, to make a clear break with the deliberate antiquity of the narrative voice.

cool

don't forget that it is often the first few pages that people read in the shop before buying....

*/end ... rank amateur advising good author *

[SteveMill]

Thanks Pixel - I need critical feedback and have shelled out for a paid site that has a a depressingly large number of good writers on and they confirm what you say and what I suspected.

So the new plan is to open with the strong narrative voice, not too long, and then have a couple of conventional chapters before flashing back to tell the story leading up to the hero's current state..

The narrator - a demon snared in the hero's weapon - is probably the only character that will be in the whole story - and so I need to introduce him at the onset.

People seem to like the narrative intro, the problem is that there is not a clear break with the rest of it, because I was mistakenly trying to fade the narrative style into the body of the story and this comes off crap. Need to go for a sharp divide.

steve

[Ishamael]

IMO there are 2 main types, broadly speaking, of fantasy/sci-fi fan. One, like me, likes a good story set in a different plane, the other (or should I say t'other? ) likes to have the same thing but with a different style of writing that harks back to some perceived old-worlde [sic] style of story telling.

I disagree with that comment.

In my own opinion, fantasy/sci fi is more of a spectrum, at one end you have Authors that build a world with their words, and then build a story into the world they have created, but the world itself is the key element (e.g. Tolkein), and at the other end you have authors that build characters, and then build a world and a story around the characters (e.g. Fiest, Weis & Hickman), and most authors fall somewhere in between those two extremes (e.g. Jordan, Eddings).

Personally, I am a BIG fan of character driven writing, and on my spectrum I would put Steves writing more on that side of it. The Rogues trillogy was brilliant, look forward to seeing what you have for us next!

[pixel]

IMO there are 2 main types, broadly speaking, of fantasy/sci-fi fan. One, like me, likes a good story set in a different plane, the other (or should I say t'other? ) likes to have the same thing but with a different style of writing that harks back to some perceived old-worlde [sic] style of story telling.

I disagree with that comment.

In my own opinion, fantasy/sci fi is more of a spectrum, at one end you have Authors that build a world with their words, and then build a story into the world they have created, but the world itself is the key element (e.g. Tolkein), and at the other end you have authors that build characters, and then build a world and a story around the characters (e.g. Fiest, Weis & Hickman), and most authors fall somewhere in between those two extremes (e.g. Jordan, Eddings).

Personally, I am a BIG fan of character driven writing, and on my spectrum I would put Steves writing more on that side of it. The Rogues trillogy was brilliant, look forward to seeing what you have for us next!

From what you write I don't actually see anything that disagrees with what I wrote.

I talk about style of writing (ie artistry/poetic), you're talking about style of story (ie the way the story is focussed).

Rogues trilogy does not have the same artistic style as that which is written above.

[Ishamael]

Sorry, I should have explained better.

You mentioned Tolkein as an example of the flowery text, my argument was that I never found Tolkeins writing to be overly flowery / oldworlde. Rather I found he spent so much time ensconsed in the world itself, that he neglected the characters, and to a certain degree the story as well. I had no problem understanding what Tolkein was writing, I had huge difficulties in motivating myself to read it though. It WAS heavy reading, and in that respect I agree with you, I just differ in my opinion of why it was heavy reading. If you had said Shakespeare I could agree with you.

Anyways, I didn't really want to start an argument, so if you want I can agree to disagree on this matter.