Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

[Raptor34]

It get's super okay when compared to all the other free stuff Egosoft is handing out patch after patch.

It might be okayish for someone like me that got 5.483 hours (so far ) from the game, but not so super okay for someone that just bought the base game, only to realise that in order to have acces to full in game features, needs to buy 4-5 DLCs.

That's every ****** game. And we don't even know what this system would be capable of yet, for all we know it'll be minor in the grand scheme of things.
Compared to say Star Valor, which recently sold base building as a DLC. And a ton of other games too.

[adeine]

Those were only examples to illustrate the principle - a lot of things in the "main DLCs" can be questioned the same way. ("Why wasn't it added to the basegame?"). I'd say this thinking leads nowhere but to cosmetic only DLCs which in turn would make them very unattractive.

Sure, technically you can ask that about anything, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is alike. The separate economies of core factions and CoH both function, and having both of them makes sense and doesn't detract from the game at all.

Yet the old disguise system has never made a tiny bit of sense. Any random pirate can take a ship and disguise it at will, but for us it requires rare special technology locked behind stories. Or the local security ships can be chasing down a ship that just committed piracy, looking at it, flying right to it, and at the flick of a switch they go "oh, alright, that's one of ours actually nevermind". It's a bad system. Now they're adding a deeper stealth/disguise system that is once again tied to a specific type of ship and this is apparently going to exist at the same time as the one which tells us that, actually, any random Minotaur Raider can do this—provided we don't own it.

They put a lot of new features in the basegame already - it's not as they were leaving us with no progress there. And they do so alongside bugfixes. Egosoft's main problem is - not everyone can be satisified. But that's true for all things which have limited resources (time, money, staff). So there will always that one tiny bit left which one would also like to have for free, it's inherent to the system.

That doesn't matter to me, I'm not keeping a tally of free vs unfree things here. There are just some things that I think are far better suited to being upgraded than sold separately, and that is one such thing. It would be the same if they'd released 100x as much free content or if this was the first major patch. I'm fully aware they can't please everyone but that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell them when I think they made a poor choice.

100% this.

[jlehtone]

If you sell a new system for disguises tied to a new ship now you have two such systems existing in parallel: the old crappy one which only pirates and a few storyline ships can use, and the newer one that requires the DLC ship.

Pirates are clearly a thing of their own. They are in the base game. Not "perfect", naturally.

The "few storyline (player) ships can use" -- isn't that a gimmick in the CoH storyline; requires a DLC?
That leaves the "buy a DLC" the only way for player to get any disguise, doesn't it?
At least the two DLC will offer different disguise.

Do you already know how "crappy" the new one will be?

[Raptor34]

If you sell a new system for disguises tied to a new ship now you have two such systems existing in parallel: the old crappy one which only pirates and a few storyline ships can use, and the newer one that requires the DLC ship.

Pirates are clearly a thing of their own. They are in the base game. Not "perfect", naturally.

The "few storyline (player) ships can use" -- isn't that a gimmick in the CoH storyline; requires a DLC?
That leaves the "buy a DLC" the only way for player to get any disguise, doesn't it?
At least the two DLC will offer different disguise.

Do you already know how "crappy" the new one will be?

All I know is the new one sounds cool. I also remember how the Hyperion was a "new type" of ship. Which turned out to just be can repair and rearm fighters.
I'll be impressed if the new ship allows you to land on hostile stations, even more if you can buy stuff from them, though I don't see what's the point since unlike X2-3 I can't land and buy certain weapons only certain races sell anyway.
I'll be surprised if you can actually disguise as another faction for consequence free aggression. That would actually be a new mechanic.

[Gtadam]

I think it's good for gaining reputation with hostile factions. Just go in with cloak, see a criminal around a station, uncloak and kill it. Stations should ignore you first.

[Raptor34]

I think it's good for gaining reputation with hostile factions. Just go in with cloak, see a criminal around a station, uncloak and kill it. Stations should ignore you first.

Well, true. Though I'll note assuming you aren't KOS, you can already do that with armed couriers since they are technically civilian ships. Factions do differentiate between them assuming your rep isn't in the gutter.
Then again we are getting diplomacy which is supposed to deal with that issue anyway so... I suppose it's P2W like getting a Hyperion early.

[LameFox]

If you sell a new system for disguises tied to a new ship now you have two such systems existing in parallel: the old crappy one which only pirates and a few storyline ships can use, and the newer one that requires the DLC ship.

Pirates are clearly a thing of their own. They are in the base game. Not "perfect", naturally.

The "few storyline (player) ships can use" -- isn't that a gimmick in the CoH storyline; requires a DLC?
That leaves the "buy a DLC" the only way for player to get any disguise, doesn't it?
At least the two DLC will offer different disguise.

Do you already know how "crappy" the new one will be?

The CoH one is honestly so primitive and restricted I don't care about it. It's clearly there just to progress the story and isn't much of a system.

It's true I don't know if the new one will be a massive step up, but at least it sounds like a more involved mechanic with some kind of control involved. For me putting that kind of time into it does start to shine an uncomfortable light on the way it works in the base game—why it's so annoyingly implemented, why any rando pirate can use it and we can't. Players have expressed annoyance with this mechanic for so, so long.

[chew-ie]

>> X4: Envoy Pack @ GOG (product page coming soon)

Any ETA on that one? Since that announcement, GOG published a few other new product pages, but so far no X4...

[vvvvvvvv]

>> X4: Envoy Pack @ GOG (product page coming soon)

Any ETA on that one? Since that announcement, GOG published a few other new product pages, but so far no X4...

I'd assume it'll roll out together with diplomacy update.

[Y-llian]

The CoH one is honestly so primitive and restricted I don't care about it. It's clearly there just to progress the story and isn't much of a system.

Personally, I find the Rodent quite useful for scouting Xenon sectors (before I attack) or tracking down where they’ve rebuilt any SYs / Wharfs. It’s quick once you’re in TD though it does have a slowish TD acceleration and means you still need to be somewhat careful.

The two ships I keep on my Hyperion are the Rodent and X-Shuttle. Offers versatility for most situations. But then everyone’s play style is different…

The big question for me is how much quicker agent actions are going to be with this ship compared to others, which seems to be the suggestion.

[alt3rn1ty]

>> X4: Envoy Pack @ GOG (product page coming soon)

Any ETA on that one? Since that announcement, GOG published a few other new product pages, but so far no X4...

I'd assume it'll roll out together with diplomacy update.

GOG publishing the page I think will not happen until at least Monday, GOG don't work at the weekend.

[LameFox]

The CoH one is honestly so primitive and restricted I don't care about it. It's clearly there just to progress the story and isn't much of a system.

Personally, I find the Rodent quite useful for scouting Xenon sectors (before I attack) or tracking down where they’ve rebuilt any SYs / Wharfs. It’s quick once you’re in TD though it does have a slowish TD acceleration and means you still need to be somewhat careful.

The two ships I keep on my Hyperion are the Rodent and X-Shuttle. Offers versatility for most situations. But then everyone’s play style is different…

The big question for me is how much quicker agent actions are going to be with this ship compared to others, which seems to be the suggestion.

Eh, you can do that with it but also you don't need it to do that. I routinely fly undisguised through Xenon space, and there isn't a lot they can do about it.

[jlehtone]

The two ships I keep on my Hyperion are the Rodent and X-Shuttle. Offers versatility for most situations. But then everyone’s play style is different…

Probably does. That style requires three DLC; none of those three ships is in the base game.

A question is whether such convenience should be in the base game? Then again, if "everything" is in the base game, then would the remainders be worth the price of DLC?

Perhaps every new player should be forced to buy the whole bundle, so they could not "suffer" play without all the toys?

The big question for me is how much quicker agent actions are going to be with this ship compared to others, which seems to be the suggestion.

That sounds like a "in the base game, but a bit better with DLC" type of design.

[MegaJohnny]

Just seen on the main menu in the 8.00 beta, in the promotional ticker for the DLC:

"A threat from before the Dark rears its head again. Diplomacy alone may not be enough to mitigate it"

and

"Anonymous diplomatic sources have sent reports of a weapon that could potentially destroy a star. Hyperbole? We hope so!"

I'm hopeful these point to a more involved storyline - any thoughts what the threat might be? It almost sounds like the Xenon M0, but who knows.

[chew-ie]

Any ETA on that one? Since that announcement, GOG published a few other new product pages, but so far no X4...

I'd assume it'll roll out together with diplomacy update.

GOG publishing the page I think will not happen until at least Monday, GOG don't work at the weekend.

It's getting a tad ridiculous now - there have been 11 releases / announcements on GOG now in the last 6 days. Surely in 2025 it won't take more than half an hour to put up a measly product page?

It almost feels like Egosoft stepped on GOGs toes or something

edit: and again a new product page @GOG. This time a preorder offer for a game which releases on the 20th of November 2025 -.-

[Starmeadow]

While I genuinely like the idea behind this ship, I have 3 main worries with it that I felt like I should voice.

1. Obviously for one, the direction egosoft is going with this. Yes I am aware that this was planned, but it still concerns me. I do not want to see a future Egosoft that acts predatory like certain other corporations. I feel like the dlcs in the past were the right way to go to both grow and have a healthy community, which is unfortunately rare nowadays due to microtransactions or sparce content for high prices. Egosoft does not need to get that low and I fear it would ruin the community and support if it were to happen. Do not take this as hate, I just don't want to see X morph into something worse like so many other games.

2. The price. To compare: Tides of avarice adds 7 new sectors, 2 whole new factions, a ton of ships, new mechanics (the tide), a bunch of tracks a whole new storyline that is fully voiced by voice actors and the Astrid to the game; All for 15$.
Now, let's compare that to the Hyperion Pack:
You get 1 sector, 1 track (i believe) and a short mission chain of 2 missions or so. On top of a few to be quite honest, *terrible* voice lines. To tell the truth, that is barely anything in comparison. And the price? Half the price of the tides of avarice dlc. Basically a small slice of the content added in previous expansions for about half the price of 7$ (if i recall correctly it was 8$ before). That, even with current world economy development, is by all means, unfortunately not seeming like healthy numbers to me. So I would ask either the price or the content to be adjusted accordingly. I know this pack has 2 ships, but even with that Hyperion pricing does not add up well in my opinion.

3. Finally, on a more lighthearted note: I would love to have more interactables, even if it is just something small to boost immersion like sitting in a bench or toggleable blinds. Something functional, as trivial as it may be. While I love the astrid as a ship it was always a slight disappointment to not be able to use the furniture other than the admittedly great navigation/office chair in it and a few light switches when there is so much more in the ship.

[TheDeliveryMan]

So I would ask either the price or the content to be adjusted accordingly.

Would it have been better if they had put the five new (7.50) sectors (Adventure's Promise, Ore Belt, Sanctum Verge, Circle of Deceit and Tempting Fumes) into the Hyperion Pack instead of the base game?

The purpose of the mini DLCs is to support the ongoing development of the base game. I don't feel we're getting less.

[Starmeadow]

So I would ask either the price or the content to be adjusted accordingly.

Would it have been better if they had put the five new (7.50) sectors (Adventure's Promise, Ore Belt, Sanctum Verge, Circle of Deceit and Tempting Fumes) into the Hyperion Pack instead of the base game?

The purpose of the mini DLCs is to support the ongoing development of the base game. I don't feel we're getting less.

You leave out most of the stuff that was added in the past (which i listed), so this is not a valid comparison at all. A dozen of ships, new lore and factions are all still there that you simply ignored. You are basically saying having a bandaid of 5 sectors is enough to justify an unfair shift in prices for 1 ship and low effort context around it. At the end of the day, dlc is paid content to be added to the game. That has and will always be its purpose, and under that jurisdiction we are being sold much less for the same price compared to the past if you do the math. It is simply a bad trade. Free updates are nice and all but are not an excuse for bad marketing developments. (Don't take this wrong, I do not believe Ego is on that path just yet, because these packs were announced prior and branded an experiment). Hence my post, to warn and hopefully make potential minds that were in favour of these developments to be adapted permanently to think twice and go with a better way.
The past dlcs were enough to keep the game afloat with plenty of updates during the time in which they were released, as visible through the update history. The X games live on the communities support to a great extent. The latter will inevitably suffer if this practice was kept up, as you can see starting to develop already in recent recommendations and forums, ultimately leading to much less money made and less enjoyment taken out of this universe. Egosoft has had a good course in the past and this is a turn off of that course into more mainstream platform courses. And a lot of us evidently hate these platforms (just search for horse armour mentions). I would wager some even initially stuck to X because of these malpractices in other games and a lack thereof in this franchise. I do not think ship packs will be healthy for X, certainly not like this. Either there needs to be more content to get your moneys (and supports!) worth, or the prices need to be lowered to keep it fair from a consumers perspective. If that does not happen I fear the future will not look too bright.

[thegreybetween]

So I would ask either the price or the content to be adjusted accordingly.

Would it have been better if they had put the five new (7.50) sectors (Adventure's Promise, Ore Belt, Sanctum Verge, Circle of Deceit and Tempting Fumes) into the Hyperion Pack instead of the base game?

The purpose of the mini DLCs is to support the ongoing development of the base game. I don't feel we're getting less.

You leave out most of the stuff that was added in the past (which i listed), so this is not a valid comparison at all. A dozen of ships, new lore and factions are all still there that you simply ignored. You are basically saying having a bandaid of 5 sectors is enough to justify an unfair shift in prices for 1 ship and low effort context around it. At the end of the day, dlc is paid content to be added to the game. That has and will always be its purpose, and under that jurisdiction we are being sold much less for the same price compared to the past if you do the math. It is simply a bad trade. Free updates are nice and all but are not an excuse for bad marketing developments. (Don't take this wrong, I do not believe Ego is on that path just yet, because these packs were announced prior and branded an experiment). Hence my post, to warn and hopefully make potential minds that were in favour of these developments to be adapted permanently to think twice and go with a better way.
The past dlcs were enough to keep the game afloat with plenty of updates during the time in which they were released, as visible through the update history. The X games live on the communities support to a great extent. The latter will inevitably suffer if this practice was kept up, as you can see starting to develop already in recent recommendations and forums, ultimately leading to much less money made and less enjoyment taken out of this universe. Egosoft has had a good course in the past and this is a turn off of that course into more mainstream platform courses. And a lot of us evidently hate these platforms (just search for horse armour mentions). I would wager some even initially stuck to X because of these malpractices in other games and a lack thereof in this franchise. I do not think ship packs will be healthy for X, certainly not like this. Either there needs to be more content to get your moneys (and supports!) worth, or the prices need to be lowered to keep it fair from a consumers perspective. If that does not happen I fear the future will not look too bright.

But the point that you quoted missed is that we ARE getting loads of content, but Egosoft is shaking up the mold a bit by putting many of the items that would normally be in the DLC into the free update (in addition to the normal free update content we'd expect). Think of it this way: We're getting a new ship, half a dozen sectors, and a new plot - an amount of content that is reasonable for $8. But half of it is given to EVERYONE while half of it is available to the people who pay the $8. They very easily could have lumped a large amount of the free update into the DLC, making it appear more valuable. But instead, they delivered a full $8 DLC's worth of content and only locked half of it behind the paywall. Sure, it looks like the people paying are "getting screwed", but they were up front about the fact that these are primarily a development support product, and have opted to give a big chuck of what that money enabled FREE. Why? Because the people who are willing to pay for a dev support pack are usually happy to do it as long as the dev-user relationship feels equitable, and the people who don't (or can't) pay for it are now still allowed to play with a fair bit of the new stuff.

That makes it a very fair bargain in my book, and I'm happy to pay for them and support this sort of dev-user relationship. And if you're not a purchaser, please enjoy the extra sectors that I paid for for you. You're welcome!

[chew-ie]

Would it have been better if they had put the five new (7.50) sectors (Adventure's Promise, Ore Belt, Sanctum Verge, Circle of Deceit and Tempting Fumes) into the Hyperion Pack instead of the base game?

The purpose of the mini DLCs is to support the ongoing development of the base game. I don't feel we're getting less.

You leave out most of the stuff that was added in the past (which i listed), so this is not a valid comparison at all. A dozen of ships, new lore and factions are all still there that you simply ignored. You are basically saying having a bandaid of 5 sectors is enough to justify an unfair shift in prices for 1 ship and low effort context around it. At the end of the day, dlc is paid content to be added to the game. That has and will always be its purpose, and under that jurisdiction we are being sold much less for the same price compared to the past if you do the math. It is simply a bad trade. Free updates are nice and all but are not an excuse for bad marketing developments. (Don't take this wrong, I do not believe Ego is on that path just yet, because these packs were announced prior and branded an experiment). Hence my post, to warn and hopefully make potential minds that were in favour of these developments to be adapted permanently to think twice and go with a better way.
The past dlcs were enough to keep the game afloat with plenty of updates during the time in which they were released, as visible through the update history. The X games live on the communities support to a great extent. The latter will inevitably suffer if this practice was kept up, as you can see starting to develop already in recent recommendations and forums, ultimately leading to much less money made and less enjoyment taken out of this universe. Egosoft has had a good course in the past and this is a turn off of that course into more mainstream platform courses. And a lot of us evidently hate these platforms (just search for horse armour mentions). I would wager some even initially stuck to X because of these malpractices in other games and a lack thereof in this franchise. I do not think ship packs will be healthy for X, certainly not like this. Either there needs to be more content to get your moneys (and supports!) worth, or the prices need to be lowered to keep it fair from a consumers perspective. If that does not happen I fear the future will not look too bright.

But the point that you quoted missed is that we ARE getting loads of content, but Egosoft is shaking up the mold a bit by putting many of the items that would normally be in the DLC into the free update (in addition to the normal free update content we'd expect). Think of it this way: We're getting a new ship, half a dozen sectors, and a new plot - an amount of content that is reasonable for $8. But half of it is given to EVERYONE while half of it is available to the people who pay the $8. They very easily could have lumped a large amount of the free update into the DLC, making it appear more valuable. But instead, they delivered a full $8 DLC's worth of content and only locked half of it behind the paywall. Sure, it looks like the people paying are "getting screwed", but they were up front about the fact that these are primarily a development support product, and have opted to give a big chuck of what that money enabled FREE. Why? Because the people who are willing to pay for a dev support pack are usually happy to do it as long as the dev-user relationship feels equitable, and the people who don't (or can't) pay for it are now still allowed to play with a fair bit of the new stuff.

That makes it a very fair bargain in my book, and I'm happy to pay for them and support this sort of dev-user relationship. And if you're not a purchaser, please enjoy the extra sectors that I paid for for you. You're welcome!

^ This. So much this.