Introducing the X4: Envoy Pack - Stealth, Deception, and Strategy Await

[adeine]

I didn't realise the Litigious Rodent only camouflaged as Yaki, and did not use the Pirate camouflage mechanism.

Oh well you pays your money you takes your choice, and for the support of the extended development and free updates to the base game .. I for one wont be shy of spending the price of a pint. Egosoft haven't turned evil all of a sudden, the plans in the road map have been public since November last year.

Sure.

What I'm saying is I would feel better about buying this (and similar) DLC to support continued development if faction cover was properly added to the base game, and the DLC content was more in line with the base game as opposed to a convenience microtransaction. I don't know if they felt they needed to go down this route so people would be incentivised to buy the pack, but it's certainly having the opposite effect in the long run.

[alt3rn1ty]

Got it
And I better cease being the number one fan defending, before someone tells us to get a room

[Nerwesta]

We ever going to get another expansion? (not like timelines).

Or is ego going to just milk its fanbase with these scam packs? Took a leaf right out of EA’s book.

Don’t mind the addition of ships but now locking content behind a paywall is nuts.

Please just give us another expansion I honestly can’t bring myself to buy these packs, I would rather buy 4 beers from the shop than support these decisions.

They layed out their ambitions for 2025 and possibly beyond just here :

https://steamcommunity.com/games/392160 ... 8304123198

I too would love something akin to Kingdom End, but it's not like it was a surprise of what 2025 was planned. See it as a way to support the studio's hard work, especially on delivering fully free major overhaul on the game ( I've yet to test the Diplomacy part though )

"Mini DLCs"

Doesn't say anything about features being locked behind a paywall.

As for supporting the developers i own every X game, DLC and expansion, minus hyperion pack and this whenever it's released.

I've supported the dev's enough over the years. I would rather give them money for nothing than pay to support this direction.

I'm with you here, now that I think about it, I feel like it's slightly a bad move from Egosoft.
I was creating a topic tackling that as a suggestion hours ago, sad I didn't have time to finish it but I'll continue later on, it would be nice to have further discussions about it.
Luckily devs could tell us what do they think on that subject.

edit : I believe this message is also for the discussion just above, i.e cramming an entire mechanic on a single mini DLC ship, while it's seemingly a popular feature to get vanilla wise.

[Ragnos28]

Yeah, I also believe that locking functionality elements/mechanics behind DLCs is not a good look.
The ships tied to DLC, I get, for example, you want to use terran ships you buy the CoH DLC, but there was no special mechanic that you could not experiment in game if you did not buy CoH.

[chew-ie]

It get's super okay when compared to all the other free stuff Egosoft is handing out patch after patch.

[LameFox]

It goes beyond just cost IMO. Yeah free stuff is nice because it's free but more importantly as part of the base game it can improve a lot more than if it's only an add-on. If you sell a new system for disguises tied to a new ship now you have two such systems existing in parallel: the old crappy one which only pirates and a few storyline ships can use, and the newer one that requires the DLC ship. I would much rather the old system for stealth and disguises was improved in the base game and then they sell some stealth-themed ships as the DLC.

[chew-ie]

That argumentation can be pulled for any feature added. Example: the unique weapon systems of the Asgard or the unique economy of the terrans. The Erlking.

It's all down to personal preference and people shouldn't overdo it. The mini DLCs are well within normal parameters and the ratio free vs payed content is still very heavy in favor of the free stuff.

[Ragnos28]

It get's super okay when compared to all the other free stuff Egosoft is handing out patch after patch.

It might be okayish for someone like me that got 5.483 hours (so far ) from the game, but not so super okay for someone that just bought the base game, only to realise that in order to have acces to full in game features, needs to buy 4-5 DLCs.

[HeinzS]

It get's super okay when compared to all the other free stuff Egosoft is handing out patch after patch.

However, these updates are also absolutely necessary due to the many bugs contained in the new content, not to mention the fact that old bugs are reappearing: viewtopic.php?t=472222
But that's probably not a priority.

[LameFox]

That argumentation can be pulled for any feature added. Example: the unique weapon systems of the Asgard or the unique economy of the terrans. The Erlking.

Not really... unless you think the whole economy should have been made Terran?

It's all down to personal preference and people shouldn't overdo it. The mini DLCs are well within normal parameters and the ratio free vs payed content is still very heavy in favor of the free stuff.

Yes and my personal preference is that upgrades over terrible base game systems should be in the base game while things like themed ships can be sold as DLCs. Now seeing this it makes me doubt the base game will ever see that system improved, since they are literally selling the improved version separately.

[chew-ie]

That argumentation can be pulled for any feature added. Example: the unique weapon systems of the Asgard or the unique economy of the terrans. The Erlking.

Not really... unless you think the whole economy should have been made Terran?

Those were only examples to illustrate the principle - a lot of things in the "main DLCs" can be questioned the same way. ("Why wasn't it added to the basegame?"). I'd say this thinking leads nowhere but to cosmetic only DLCs which in turn would make them very unattractive.

It's all down to personal preference and people shouldn't overdo it. The mini DLCs are well within normal parameters and the ratio free vs payed content is still very heavy in favor of the free stuff.

Yes and my personal preference is that upgrades over terrible base game systems should be in the base game while things like themed ships can be sold as DLCs. Now seeing this it makes me doubt the base game will ever see that system improved, since they are literally selling the improved version separately.

They put a lot of new features in the basegame already - it's not as they were leaving us with no progress there. And they do so alongside bugfixes. Egosoft's main problem is - not everyone can be satisified. But that's true for all things which have limited resources (time, money, staff). So there will always that one tiny bit left which one would also like to have for free, it's inherent to the system.

[LameFox]

Those were only examples to illustrate the principle - a lot of things in the "main DLCs" can be questioned the same way. ("Why wasn't it added to the basegame?"). I'd say this thinking leads nowhere but to cosmetic only DLCs which in turn would make them very unattractive.

Sure, technically you can ask that about anything, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is alike. The separate economies of core factions and CoH both function, and having both of them makes sense and doesn't detract from the game at all.

Yet the old disguise system has never made a tiny bit of sense. Any random pirate can take a ship and disguise it at will, but for us it requires rare special technology locked behind stories. Or the local security ships can be chasing down a ship that just committed piracy, looking at it, flying right to it, and at the flick of a switch they go "oh, alright, that's one of ours actually nevermind". It's a bad system. Now they're adding a deeper stealth/disguise system that is once again tied to a specific type of ship and this is apparently going to exist at the same time as the one which tells us that, actually, any random Minotaur Raider can do this—provided we don't own it.

They put a lot of new features in the basegame already - it's not as they were leaving us with no progress there. And they do so alongside bugfixes. Egosoft's main problem is - not everyone can be satisified. But that's true for all things which have limited resources (time, money, staff). So there will always that one tiny bit left which one would also like to have for free, it's inherent to the system.

That doesn't matter to me, I'm not keeping a tally of free vs unfree things here. There are just some things that I think are far better suited to being upgraded than sold separately, and that is one such thing. It would be the same if they'd released 100x as much free content or if this was the first major patch. I'm fully aware they can't please everyone but that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell them when I think they made a poor choice.

[chew-ie]

Those were only examples to illustrate the principle - a lot of things in the "main DLCs" can be questioned the same way. ("Why wasn't it added to the basegame?"). I'd say this thinking leads nowhere but to cosmetic only DLCs which in turn would make them very unattractive.

Sure, technically you can ask that about anything, but that doesn't mean the reasoning is alike. The separate economies of core factions and CoH both function, and having both of them makes sense and doesn't detract from the game at all.

Yet the old disguise system has never made a tiny bit of sense. Any random pirate can take a ship and disguise it at will, but for us it requires rare special technology locked behind stories. Or the local security ships can be chasing down a ship that just committed piracy, looking at it, flying right to it, and at the flick of a switch they go "oh, alright, that's one of ours actually nevermind". It's a bad system. Now they're adding a deeper stealth/disguise system that is once again tied to a specific type of ship and this is apparently going to exist at the same time as the one which tells us that, actually, any random Minotaur Raider can do this—provided we don't own it.

They put a lot of new features in the basegame already - it's not as they were leaving us with no progress there. And they do so alongside bugfixes. Egosoft's main problem is - not everyone can be satisified. But that's true for all things which have limited resources (time, money, staff). So there will always that one tiny bit left which one would also like to have for free, it's inherent to the system.

That doesn't matter to me, I'm not keeping a tally of free vs unfree things here. There are just some things that I think are far better suited to being upgraded than sold separately, and that is one such thing. It would be the same if they'd released 100x as much free content or if this was the first major patch. I'm fully aware they can't please everyone but that doesn't mean I'm not going to tell them when I think they made a poor choice.

Aye, I think I get your point better now. I guess what we are looking for (in different aspects of the game - pirate disguise thing isn't a priority for me, but weapon balance is) is a consolidation of all those things added into more refined versions. Like it happened from e.g. X³ Reunion to X³:Terran Conflict. The latter was a much more focused game IMHO. While a game can be drastically altered by patch (compare e.g. Cyperpunk 2077 release version vs. the current version - radically different gameplay mechanic details and whole system completely refined) I guess the savegame compatibility is a major hurdle to take and a huge source for compromises which might only be solveable by a new game version (e.g. X4: The Calumet).

In fact I really hope for such a version Egosoft will drastically question old systems and make them "more" (e.g. builder limits on construction sites, disguise system, overall weapon and turret variety, faction identy (unique weapons, different military doctrines), highway building (for players to opt out of this feature competely) ...

Until that day comes I think the mini dlcs are a good playground to test things out. If only people wouldn't boycott them "just because" they would even give a solid measurement about the popularity of those features experimented on.

[LameFox]

I don't intend to boycott it, it's not morally abhorrent to me it just feels like a waste. I would have bought the ships anyway, I don't need them to have special mechanics. If anything I like having more normal ships to choose from rather than hyper-specialised ones that are always the absolute winner in their category.

[chew-ie]

I don't intend to boycott it, it's not morally abhorrent to me it just feels like a waste. I would have bought the ships anyway, I don't need them to have special mechanics. If anything I like having more normal ships to choose from rather than hyper-specialised ones that are always the absolute winner in their category.

RE boycott: poor choice of words / again, meant it in a more general way.

[Tamina]

The soundtrack of the DLC Trailer is awesome

I like to think that Egosoft is pushing out Mini-DLCs, so that the programmers have time and money to work on something else bigger in the background. Maybe a successor to X4?

At least that is where I am bettibg my money at when buying this DLC.

[feaniris]

Finally i can get on an enemy station, disable everything and rob Its stock, like a true pirate would do.

[hajko2]

Hi,

the Envoy Pack looks good and will be a good opportunity to support the team's running costs.

[Pesanur]

For me playstyle, I'm see the Envoy as a meh, but the Cypher, instead, I think that I'm to make extensive use of it, mainly to force a faction to make the dirty work with another faction for me without losing rep.

I'm hope that we can get blueprints for both ships instead that only getting them from bail outs like the Raven.

[Nerwesta]

It get's super okay when compared to all the other free stuff Egosoft is handing out patch after patch.

The issue isn't just that, but also be tied only to the Envoy while this mechanic could shine on pretty much any other ship.
Look, if the Envoy needs to be that unique, so be it ( it still already has to my eyes ) :
It can have a much more powerful cloacking device for free and we can call it a day, while vanilla ones have to be very expensive to get, I don't know.

Hyperion didn't have some sort of crucial mechanic, yet sold well ( for Egosoft to make that 2nd DLC I guess ) and is widely acclaimed on steam.
So there is a point to be made I guess

[...]
While a game can be drastically altered by patch (compare e.g. Cyperpunk 2077 release version vs. the current version - radically different gameplay mechanic details and whole system completely refined) I guess the savegame compatibility is a major hurdle to take and a huge source for compromises which might only be solveable by a new game version (e.g. X4: The Calumet).

It may be better to name NMS, because I really don't see how Cyberpunk 2077 is radically changed, that's the stuff I see hovering online all the time, going to the extreme as " we won't recognise the game if we played at launch " but that's comically tough for me to process that.