Xenon needs a upgrade.

[Staur106]

Hello i have bin dong few fresh starts over the last months, newest one was 1 day before the new beta started and, only place that Xenon seam to be able to keep there stuff is the zones you have to clean for yaki in there story.
most all othere places allways get owned, and this seam to have started after the Argon/Teldi update on ships came out, and i'm talking about player not helping at all, this kinda makes Xenon Pointless in X4 these days.

Here is the save for the newest game this is a costom game but i did not have anything done but just some extra Blueprints and Ships.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/yetg7k1e ... xbih6&dl=0

The way i think this can be fixed in some way are these ideas.

1) add mere xenon sectors linked to the ones around ant/argon and teldi space.

2) Upgrade Xenon Ships in some way.

3) make them more aggresive in these Sectors that are beging taken over so easy.

4) maybe increse the numbers of I and K in Groups might help aswell.

I think there needs to be done something to make the Xenon more Scary like in old days

[alt3rn1ty]

~ and i'm talking about player not helping at all, this kinda makes Xenon Pointless in X4 these days. ~

I agree.

Coming from me (probably one of the most pacifist of players, who likes an end game where everyone is peaceful and I can just enjoy small dogfights against BUC, Kha'ak and whatever I can glean from missions which are not too big) .. Thats quite a bit of an admission.
.. Wall of text in spoiler ..

Spoiler

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Once I have helped the Yaki (which I always do as I like supporting the underdog), saddest part of that tale is once you have helped the Yaki (after god knows how long of being in fear of everyone and having to hide among the Xenon), they still get stomped on whatever faction is strongest to waltz through their sectors.

But back to the Xenon - Thats the biggest threat gone. The initial tell tale conflict is the Xenon incursion into Hatikvah's, and I can't resist building my forces to turn the tide here, after that you just waltz through to Savage Spur systematically wiping out the Xenon threat, and the Yaki plot of helping them to be rid of the last Xenon stations is pretty much already done.

Everywhere else .. just leave it to all the other factions, eventually Xenon get squished = No more Xenon drops and mod resources.

Even SCA sectors down to the South East of the map, initially the Xenon are quite strong there if you get there quick enough, and then you have an early long winded battle if you are prioritising doing the SCA Terraforming. But leave it a while, and by the time you get there the Teldai / SCA will see them off. Leaving the coast clear to do the SCA Terraforming, being friends with them and getting all the mod goodies from the fleet they give you.

And lastly you can try to coral the Xenon into a few sectors and keep them alive, but ultimately they will die if not by your hand, another faction will storm in there and finish them off, either Teladi, Terran, Rhak even Antigone are not shy in coming forward at that stage. Some folk have been sucessful doing this, but its a Royal PITA nurturing the fate of the Xenon.

We maybe could use Diplomacy in the future drop of Version 8.0 of the game, to turn the tide of fate regarding Xenon

Something needs done. I think making them just able to teleport elsewhere like the Kha'ak would be too much. Because the Xenon build up quickly and spread like wildfire once they are dug in, whereas the Kha'ak just attack the threat to Nividium and are relatively contained even though they can jump around, they dont really proliferate.

The newish end game Existential Threat from the Xenon plus Kha'ak is just a long drawn-out battle of attrition, and by that stage you have enough clout to be able to defend wherever they pop up. Its interesting but ultimately we win.

I honestly dont know what to suggest for the early to mid game, and Egosoft have a huge task trying to balance this for all players "style". They dont want the Xenon to take over the X'verse, not giving the player a chance to get strong enough against them, or squashing chances of any story / mission with any particular faction by having the Xenon obliterate any faction along the way.

Many suggestions have been made in the past, but nothing Egosoft could follow up on as an ideal solution.

TLDR :

The only thing I can think of is always have a surviving "job" of spawning in a special Xenon SE, and randomly it will help a station to build somewhere and create a pop up incursion of Xenon, if you are not quick enough to notice, they will once again proliferate. Like Alien Earth. Maybe a special "Envoy" version of a Xenon SE ship which has adopted pirate camouflaging, and away they go again. They might lose a few of these trying to establish themselves again, but one will get through eventually (maybe the RNG on this could be made random enough to really elongate the end game and we get a long period of peace, but then we have another Xenon war on our hands sneakily pops up when we are not expecting it..

ad-infinitum.

That would be my ideal solution to Xenon extinction, and would create "Oh crap!" moments for us pacifists with loads of credits needing to be woken up from our reverie .

I kind of hope Egosoft sees this suggestion
(Please dont let it help the new neighbours to Path to Profit .. You know where I mean )
(Or .. maybe, do, upset my shipyard, I can build elsewhere and come back with vengeance).

"Dug in deeper than an alabama tick".

[Diamaht]

If you boost them in general you would cut player HQ off from the rest of the world via Hatikvah, since that is under siege at the very start of the game. An experienced player may welcome this, but the HQ is meant to ease newer players in and connect them to the Boron (and connect to Boron to everyone else)

Maybe new sectors further away from the center of the map that start with a very strong Xenon economy? That would also draw the attention of the POI so they would be less likely to help in other places, so the Xenon would get a bit stronger everywhere.

[Worilio]

In the long term, Xenon run out of resources, which is then their decline. Perhaps, following would make sense:

1) Possibilty for capital ships to dock at Xenon stations and making Xenon H a universal miner and gas collector.
2) Enabling mining for Xenon B, which seems to its original purpose anyway.
3) Periodical spawning of support fleets of Xenon H and Xenon B in Xenon owned sectors for ressource collection.
4) A new class of an energy cell manufacturing mobile solar panel Xenon ship, which would spawn in Xenon owned sectors as well.

[Observe]

Xenon are doing quite well in my current game. I started out with PHQ in Savage Spur 1 near the Yaki station. This sector is rich in resources. I am neutral with Yaki and Xenon and I am enemies with everyone else except Segaris Pioneers and Zyarth Patriarchy. This gives me an "in" with Terran technology via Segaris and ice mining in Family Kritt, along with Split technology as well.

The main incursions into Xenon Sectors Tharka's Cascade XV, XV11 and Matrix #79B seem to come from Terrans. However, since I'm at war with Terrans, I regularly chip away at them in Getsu Fune and Asteroid Belt sectors. This seems to diminish their overall fleet, to the point where they appear less able to send ships into Xenon sectors.

After 70+ hours in this play-through, the Xenon sectors mentioned above, remain full to the brim with Xenon ships. Interestingly, Xenon are quite happy to sell solar cells to my PHQ.

Anyway, I thought I'd mention that this seems to be one way to ensure Xenon survival, by reducing the Terran threat to them. The other factions, while enemies of Xenon, appear to do less damage to Xenon's than Terran's do. Or, what I am seeing, may just be the roll of the dice in this particular start.

[Staur106]

Xenon are doing quite well in my current game. I started out with PHQ in Savage Spur 1 near the Yaki station. This sector is rich in resources. I am neutral with Yaki and Xenon and I am enemies with everyone else except Segaris Pioneers and Zyarth Patriarchy. This gives me an "in" with Terran technology via Segaris and ice mining in Family Kritt, along with Split technology as well.

The main incursions into Xenon Sectors Tharka's Cascade XV, XV11 and Matrix #79B seem to come from Terrans. However, since I'm at war with Terrans, I regularly chip away at them in Getsu Fune and Asteroid Belt sectors. This seems to diminish their overall fleet, to the point where they appear less able to send ships into Xenon sectors.

After 70+ hours in this play-through, the Xenon sectors mentioned above, remain full to the brim with Xenon ships. Interestingly, Xenon are quite happy to sell solar cells to my PHQ.

Anyway, I thought I'd mention that this seems to be one way to ensure Xenon survival, by reducing the Terran threat to them. The other factions, while enemies of Xenon, appear to do less damage to Xenon's than Terran's do. Or, what I am seeing, may just be the roll of the dice in this particular start.

you seam to be missing my pont my friend, the Sectors your talking about are Exsecly the only ones that Xenon has no reall issues with unless player is involved, the Sectors that are issue for Xenon are the ones around Teldi space and ANT/Argon allways get wiped out really early, often even before i have Discoverd them heh, Something needs to be done to make the Xenon a nightmare agien, but like the first guy said it is hard to balance it so new and unexperianced player wont be overrelmed, there might be a good idea to perheps make new difficult Xenon system you can unlock in Games settings or even have some kind of Opiton wen you start a new game or even a Reserch opiton

[Diamaht]

Xenon are doing quite well in my current game. I started out with PHQ in Savage Spur 1 near the Yaki station. This sector is rich in resources. I am neutral with Yaki and Xenon and I am enemies with everyone else except Segaris Pioneers and Zyarth Patriarchy. This gives me an "in" with Terran technology via Segaris and ice mining in Family Kritt, along with Split technology as well.

The main incursions into Xenon Sectors Tharka's Cascade XV, XV11 and Matrix #79B seem to come from Terrans. However, since I'm at war with Terrans, I regularly chip away at them in Getsu Fune and Asteroid Belt sectors. This seems to diminish their overall fleet, to the point where they appear less able to send ships into Xenon sectors.

After 70+ hours in this play-through, the Xenon sectors mentioned above, remain full to the brim with Xenon ships. Interestingly, Xenon are quite happy to sell solar cells to my PHQ.

Anyway, I thought I'd mention that this seems to be one way to ensure Xenon survival, by reducing the Terran threat to them. The other factions, while enemies of Xenon, appear to do less damage to Xenon's than Terran's do. Or, what I am seeing, may just be the roll of the dice in this particular start.

Out of curiosity, what did you do to gain standing with the Xenon?

[Observe]

Out of curiosity, what did you do to gain standing with the Xenon?

I am playing a custom game start, where I set the faction relationships prior to starting. This means that Xenon and Yaki are "blue" from the beginning. Basically, I am playing as Yaki. I can buy their blueprints. I can also order their ships, but they generally lack the resources to build them, so I sell ships to them from my PHQ shipyard nearby.

I can order an S-Class Mining ship from the Xenon Wharf and I can dock at their stations. Of course I can't step out of my ship onto the Xenon docking platform itself, or have any other kind of interaction with them.

[Observe]

Something needs to be done to make the Xenon a nightmare agien, but like the first guy said it is hard to balance it so new and unexperianced player wont be overrelmed, there might be a good idea to perheps make new difficult Xenon system you can unlock in Games settings or even have some kind of Opiton wen you start a new game or even a Reserch opiton

I agree. It would be nice if we had the option for Xenon to be more of a long-term threat. With the Kha'ak being so limited and the Xenon dying out by mid-game, travel pretty much becomes a walk in the park, with little really to keep the player on their toes.

[Diamaht]

Out of curiosity, what did you do to gain standing with the Xenon?

I am playing a custom game start, where I set the faction relationships prior to starting. This means that Xenon and Yaki are "blue" from the beginning. Basically, I am playing as Yaki. I can buy their blueprints. I can also order their ships, but they generally lack the resources to build them, so I sell ships to them from my PHQ shipyard nearby.

I can order an S-Class Mining ship from the Xenon Wharf and I can dock at their stations. Of course I can't step out of my ship onto the Xenon docking platform itself, or have any other kind of interaction with them.

Gotcha, thanks!

[feaniris]

Yes they need It badly

[grapedog]

In my current game, the Xenon have been cleared out of the south completely by HoP and ANT. I helped clean out the northern ZYA sectors because they can't do that themselves, and I need ZYA to clear out the ARG on their own which they are finally doing. The TEL have cleared the Xenon out of the North East sectors and their own southern sectors like Turquoise sea are almost cleared out. Xenon do still have a pretty strong presence in Tharkas and Savage Sput, but ZYA captured control of the initial Tharkas sector without my help.

I think its only a matter of time until the Xenon are clapped back from those two areas as well.
-----

I think what I would like to see is some more inactive gates added to the game, and there is a couple of Xenon sectors clumped together with good resources internal to those sectors. From time to time the Xenon can choose to activate a gate and launch an invasion into the universe, TER/PIO territory included like Asteroid Belt and Oort Cloud, and then the gate closes. This kind of keeps the Xenon as an ever present threat, while allowing them a chance to hit important sectors, but never getting too rowdy from their protected space. Give them like 10 or 15 gates where they can appear, so it makes it very difficult to camp/stamp them out. The Xenon pockets in the current game stay as is, this is in addition to the Xenon we have now.

Perhaps make it also a toggle that the player can then adjust based on how much of a Xenon threat he wants.

[Vuteq]

I don't want to boost Xenon, would like to tune down other faction agression against them to "play indefinitely at yours own pace". But as crowd suggest at so many posts, i would just add one new L or XL ship with just turrets, dmg of gravitons but range of ~8-9km. And make them as popular as K in Xenon fleets. Ofc turret coverage is without blind spots. I think it would boost Xenon against npc's enough.

[vvvvvvvv]

I think what I would like to see is some more inactive gates added to the game,

I think one possible angle could be:

* There are dormant gates leading to unknown areas.
* When xenon population drops below certain threshold or is wiped out, one of the gates activate, leading to active, self-contained xenon cluster.
* And wiping that cluster out likely would be pretty much impossible.

Random connection points could lead to some of the distant sectors. For example:

* Tharka Ravine 4 Tharka's Fall
* Matrix 598
* Mi Ton's Refuge
* Mists of Artemis
* Ore Belt.

[duf201]

Maintain Xen’s existing behavior before the player triggers the crisis. After the crisis is triggered, become more aggressive and spawn randomly at irregular intervals.

As of version 8.60(or 8.50...?), Xen already spawns S/M ships near construction plans when preparing to invade neighboring sectors.
I've also encountered dozens of S/M ships spawning repeatedly while transporting TER ships through Xen sectors.

[Vuteq]

I'm a relatively new X player, so I don't fully understand when it happens to the Xenons that they lose all their mining/energy transport ships. In my save, I created a station in Hatkivas Choice I to lock them in a "cage." I saw how stupid it was, dismantled the station, and focused on what I had planned: expanding my medical supply and food business. I sometimes skirmish with the Xenons to train some of my fleet, or simply because I feel like it. I haven't done them any significant harm so far. I'm on day 7 of the game, I think. In the south, the Paradians are slowly pushing them out of their sectors, but again in the north, Hatkivas I is 50% destroyed by them, along with a defense station (Xenon) (which was previously destroyed, now rebuilt). How long does this take, what is being described, or is it more related to direct player interference? I don't use SETA.

[vvvvvvvv]

I'm a relatively new X player, so I don't fully understand when it happens to the Xenons that they lose all their mining/energy transport ships. In my save, I created a station in Hatkivas Choice I to lock them in a "cage." I saw how stupid it was, dismantled the station, and focused on what I had planned: expanding my medical supply and food business. I sometimes skirmish with the Xenons to train some of my fleet, or simply because I feel like it. I haven't done them any significant harm so far. I'm on day 7 of the game, I think. In the south, the Paradians are slowly pushing them out of their sectors, but again in the north, Hatkivas I is 50% destroyed by them, along with a defense station (Xenon) (which was previously destroyed, now rebuilt). How long does this take, what is being described, or is it more related to direct player interference? I don't use SETA.

Building a defense station in hatikvah is a good strategy and not stupid. Basically they will not collapse until you actually venture in their sectors "north" from hatikvah to clear those sectors out. Defense staotion or fleet, however, will provide a good source of materials.

[Vuteq]

Building a defense station in hatikvah is a good strategy and not stupid. Basically they will not collapse until you actually venture in their sectors "north" from hatikvah to clear those sectors out. Defense staotion or fleet, however, will provide a good source of materials.

I agree, but it's more or less permanent. If I want to gather resources, I place a few destroyers and one or two carriers at that gate. In my experience, it works the same way, and when you have enough, you can quickly unlock them by simply moving your fleet. That's what I meant by training your fleet, also collect materials with two cheap exploration ships then. At the beginning of the game, when this station would be most useful, there are NPC stations that effectively block their progress for a long time. By building one, you risk losing reputation with the factions if, like me, often play there in a fighter. In any case, thanks for letting me know that until I get there myself (north sectors) with a fleet, the fun will continue

[jlehtone]

... I'm on day 7 of the game, I think. In the south, the Paradians are slowly pushing them out of their sectors, but again in the north, Hatkivas I is 50% destroyed by them ...

In the base game the Xenon start with four corners: The #79B (that leads to Hatikvah), the Atiya/Faulty (in the South), the #9, and the Scale Plate Green. The latter two lead to Teladi space. Split Vendetta DLC adds three more Xenon corners and creates backdoors to #79B and #9. The Cradle of Humanity DLC adds another backdoor from #79B, adds Terran demolition fleets that target Xenon, and adds a story that has "wipe a Xenon corner" as option.

You did not say whether you have any DLC, but you did not list status of even all the base game Xenon. Are they already dead, or you just have not scouted the whole Galaxy yet? It is ok to progress at one's own pace (unless that leads to NPC killing each other before you find them).


Do player actions have an effect? Most likely. It is very hard to "do nothing". Well, it is possible, but not necessarily very exciting.

Can the NPC "win" without player? Apparently. Lower chance, but there is a "snowball" effect. Faction loses a sector => faction cannot (re)build as many fleets as before. Faction claims a sector => faction can build more fleets than before. This means that on next encounter the previous winner has bit better chance to win again. If you have to rebuild your fleets more rapidly than your logistics can refill your Wharf, then Wharf runs dry. Now you are out of ships and resources -- including the logistics ships -- and the enemy is still there, bombarding what you have left. That can and does happen to Xenon.

[Vuteq]

I have all the DLCs. Regarding the Xenon situation, I'll scout all the regions today. I don't know what the Terrans are doing after finishing their questline. I raised my reputation with them to 20 and left them to their own devices. I don't trade with them or visit their space. I know there's still fighting going on in Getsu Fune. I'll check to see if the Xenon decline has actually begun. Although I have the impression that the Xenon decline is being triggered more by player interference, more or less consciously. For example, by blocking the Xenon exits. I wonder how many people complain about the Xenon losing all their mining/energy transport ships because the defense station at the gate intercepts all those exiting through it. In my limited experience, the Xenon suffer most from their weapon range. Making them more difficult will disrupt playstyles other than fighting them; making them rebuilding will make them as annoying as the WIG/Kha'ak (random Xenon wherf at ~200km outside of sector center perhaps?). Maybe they really need a special sector with entry only through the anomaly and exit only. A script that causes them to have a permanent mining crew that sticks exclusively to that sector.