For the techies over the place i have a good question.
I'm considering replacing my computer for a newer one as mine is already 6 years old (before something gets fried in my old I7 7700) and i'm thinking about 2 possible versions.
As X4 is the most hungry game i play, it will be the benchmark who will rules them all.
So version of the dilemma is here :
Ryzen 5 7600
16gb
Nvidia RTX 4060
or
I5 14400F
16gb
Nvidia RTX 4060
Which one would be better on the long run, considering that i don't plan to upgrade anything anymore until 6 years from now ? Or would you have other advice for gaming ? Have in mind that i only buy on Gog, so no AAA for me, as they are boring as hell.
I suspect that the Ryzen platform (AM5) might have better longevity with more future CPU upgrade options. I myself bought an AM4 system back in 2019, with a 3900X processor. At the time, the PC was used for gaming and other things. However, since then, I replaced the 3900X with a 5800X3d - easy drop-in upgrade - and it TRANSFORMED my X4 experience. We're talking 2x min fps increase in the same scenario, I knew it'd be better, but the uplift was significant. The 3900X was popped in to another AM4 system (cheaper parts, but still decent) which I use for other things, the gamer is just for gaming.
If you could drop an X3d processor in your new build, that would be about as good as it gets for X4 I suspect. It might be, like me, you managed to pick one up significantly cheaper at a future date, or you stretch for one from the start. The 7600 should be pretty solid though, but a 9800X3d in a year or so's time would be a significant up lift I expect. I'd also suggest getting 32GB RAM over 16GB, as it can be beneficial.
Your GPU choice is decent enough. I have a 3070, which oddly is somewhat more powerful that a 4060, and it runs the game just fine at 1440p - it's rare I'm GPU limited.
In summary, I think the AMD platform has a bit more potential now, and going forwards. Caveat of course is what sort of deals you can get in your region. I ran Intel systems for many years, Q6600 my first in a while. Before that I was AMD. Went from an AMD x2 (their first dual core CPU's) to the Q6600 and it was a huge leap. So, I'm somewhat brand agnostic in that regard, going wherever I perceive the best value lies.
Edit: I know you said you didn't plan to update anything else for a few years. But sometimes deals come up - like it did for me with the 5800X3d - that might be too good to refuse.
Scoob wrote: ↑Thu, 20. Mar 25, 21:14
In summary, I think the AMD platform has a bit more potential now, and going forwards. Caveat of course is what sort of deals you can get in your region. I ran Intel systems for many years, Q6600 my first in a while. Before that I was AMD. Went from an AMD x2 (their first dual core CPU's) to the Q6600 and it was a huge leap. So, I'm somewhat brand agnostic in that regard, going wherever I perceive the best value lies.
Edit: I know you said you didn't plan to update anything else for a few years. But sometimes deals come up - like it did for me with the 5800X3d - that might be too good to refuse.
Well, as you i'm not linked to a specific brand. I had exactly the same strategy over the years as you.
Yeah i know the last LGA1700 socket will be the last 14th gen in intel, so there is no turning back. I fact i hesitated for the X3d version in AMD, but the prices... They are x2 too. I don't think X4 will get such a boost between the two of the them.
For the ram i can upgrade after as an exception if needed. I know 16gb could be a bit on the edge in a few years. But on the other hand i have the chance to get the 14400 complete rig for less than 950e, but it is as it is. I can't change things in it as it is a pre build machine.
The best advice I can give you right now is, stay well away from intel, especially the 13000 and 14000 chipsets. Also, if you are getting an AMD 7600 get the 7600X, it's a slightly better chip, though it doesn't come with a stock cooler, but I would recommend changing that anyway, get something like a 120 Peerless assassin.
Their chips are massively flawed and have a tendency of breaking at any time while slowly getting slower as the days pass, the market for Intel chips has drastically dropped due to their problems they used to control 80% of the CPU market now they control less than 20%. Just do a quick Google search on intel chip problem, by the way they keep saying they have fixed the issues but a few weeks later they pop up again or new ones surface. Another thing to keep in mind, they knew that the 13000 chips had a serious issue, but they still released the 14000 chips knowing that they would have the exact same problems.
Hooo shit, in the meantime i searched a bit yes.
Instability issues as i saw and other happy flaws indeed. Maybe a good advice indeed. Thanks a lot.
Shit the intel was the best for it's price...
Edit: But, it seems to be the highest ranks of processors that are impacted only. Can you confirm the entire 14th gen is flawed ?
Last edited by bof111 on Thu, 20. Mar 25, 22:30, edited 1 time in total.
Cpu cache and threads is what I'm looking for if building a new rig. From your OP choice I'd go with the Ryzen (got an older one myself).
Cheers Euclid
"In any special doctrine of nature there can be only as much proper science as there is mathematics therein.”
- Immanuel Kant (1724-1804), Metaphysical Foundations of the Science of Nature, 4:470, 1786
felter wrote: ↑Thu, 20. Mar 25, 22:01
The best advice I can give you right now is, stay well away from intel, especially the 13000 and 14000 chipsets. Also, if you are getting an AMD 7600 get the 7600X, it's a slightly better chip, though it doesn't come with a stock cooler, but I would recommend changing that anyway, get something like a 120 Peerless assassin.
I'm pretty happy with my 12600k. Very reasonably priced, very good performance.
The 14000 and 13000 are basically the same chip with just some tweaks to them, but the 13000 problems are still present in the 14000, and they knew about them before releasing the chip onto the market with the notion well sort it out later. The 12000 was a different chip and doesn't have the issues of the !3000 and 14000 have.
Companies I would recommend people stay away from right now, Intel. NZXT, Asus and NVIDIA. Intel because they are in trouble and their newest CPU's are flawed, NZXT because they were caught trying to scam their customers just last year. Asus because of their anti-consumerism practices they have adopted. NVIDIA as they are price gouging and lying to everyone. I would also include ID-Cooling but depending on where you come from they may already be banned from trading, mainly the US for trading computer equipment with Russia breaking trade embargos.
felter wrote: ↑Thu, 20. Mar 25, 22:59
The 14000 and 13000 are basically the same chip with just some tweaks to them, but the 13000 problems are still present in the 14000, and they knew about them before releasing the chip onto the market with the notion well sort it out later. The 12000 was a different chip and doesn't have the issues of the !3000 and 14000 have.
Companies I would recommend people stay away from right now, Intel. NZXT, Asus and NVIDIA. Intel because they are in trouble and their newest CPU's are flawed, NZXT because they were caught trying to scam their customers just last year. Asus because of their anti-consumerism practices they have adopted. NVIDIA as they are price gouging and lying to everyone. I would also include ID-Cooling but depending on where you come from they may already be banned from trading, mainly the US for trading computer equipment with Russia breaking trade embargos.
Huh a big thanks ! I'm researching just now this thing about Intel and it's huge ! No one knows what's really going on but they are big issues indeed. Rad tools had problems and so on... Ok i will not risk this path.
Or i must look to a older intel (12th gen) but i'm not sure it's very profitable.
If you intend to run with next GPU/CPU combo for 6 yrs, I would wait to see what comes down the highway regarding X5.. I am sure X5 is progressed enough for the "boffs" at EGO to have some form of idea what GPU/CPU requirements are compared with X4 as there may well be a different engine running the simulation..... Myself I would persevere with your existing set up for as long you can .
I will second/third/n-th the advice that if you have the option between Intel and AMD at roughly equal pricing (including motherboard) I very much recommend to pick AMD. As previously noted, the AMD chip platforms offer a much better upgrading experience owed to them getting a ton of future CPU release support on existing sockets (though chipset compatibility is something look out for when looking to upgrade). Personally I would value the ability to upgrade to a faster CPU (for example one of the X3D CPUs) on the same motherboard. I switched from a 3900X to a 5700X3D and saw noticable performance gains, without needing to buy a new motherboard.
I can't speak on the Intel CPU of choice in particular as I had switched to AMD back in the Ryzen 3000 days and never had cause to look back at Intel since so the only thing I know is that the Intel chips have been beset with instability and inefficiency woes in general, whether this exact CPU you mentioned has any particular known issues I wouldn't be able to tell. I suggest looking at a couple of reviews or GPU shootouts from reputable sources (Hardware Unboxed and GamersNexus for example regularly release videos comparing various bits of hardware making recommendations at various price brackets, I'm sure you'll find your choices reflected somewhere in these).
Lastly, it all comes down to your budget, availability and how soon you'd be looking at upgrading/replacing your CPU and/or motherboard. If you can get one option for significantly cheaper than the other and you already know you won't upgrade for a couple years then platform longevity isn't as much of a factor. Being able to upgrade to another AM5 CPU in three years doesn't mean much if you're not going to upgrade for the next five years anyway so even when Intel continues to require a new socket and motherboard every two generations it makes functionally no difference for you. In that case the only thing you should look for is actual hardware issues such as any instability, performance degradation, etc. as they might apply for your choice (again, reviews and competition comparisions help).
I do like how AMD keep a platform relevant and supported for quite some time. AM4 has been especially good, with new (sorta) chips being released long after AM5 has been established as the latest and greatest platform.
I originally wanted to wait for the AMD 5000 series of processors. However, an unstable system (old 2600k Sandy Bridge!) meant I upgraded earlier than planned. As a result, I'm very appreciative that a year or so later I could just drop-in a 5000 series in my "old" AM4 motherboard. My friend got himself a 12900K not that long after I got that original 3900X system. His PC is great, now, but he had a lot of trouble getting it running well - even with water cooling it proved to be a hot beast. That was just his experience though. However, his upgrade path is... well, there isn't one outside of a full system build (bar GPU). If he had a lower-end 12th gen Intel, he'd have options, but owning a 12900K he's certainly NOT going to get a 13/14900k due to the well-publicised issues. Even if those issues weren't a thing, the uplift would likely not be that much when considering the buy-in cost. Myself on the other hand, I snagged that 5800X3d over 30% cheaper than launch, just dropped it in (BIOS was already up to date) and more than DOUBLED my fps is certain CPU-limited scenarios. Happy Bunny.
Regarding that Intel "issue", all the articles I've read and videos I've watched (at the time) seem to suggest that the lower-end 13th/14th Gen are still pretty solid processors, and haven't exhibited the same issues as their high-end brethren. So, OP's 14400F might well be a nice option. I know little about this CPU.
I guess, having had really a rather good experience with AMD since I "switched sides" in 2019, I'm more inclined to recommend their stuff today. One thing with AMD though, get good cooling. Not that they run particularly hot, rather than they run particularly well when slightly cooler, far more likely to hit, and sustain, their rated speeds. Sorta true of all CPU's of course, but AMD Ryzen in particular. I have a closed-loop custom Water Cooling solution, so I was able to take advantage of the voltage offset thing, to get the absolute best from my 5800X3d. The loop has been great value. The Rad - a 1080 x 1080 x 50 - and the pump are in an external rack, connected to the PC by quick disconnects. So, this external loop has served numerous builds since I first assembled it back in 2011! I just get the appropriate CPU and GPU blocks each upgrade, and plumb the loop back in. Nice.
As I'm not really a "Triple A" gamer, and enjoy a few more niche titles like X4, I'm hoping this build will continue to suffice for a while yet. As I water cool, I like to get a longer life from a system than many I expect. It's funny, the triggers for an upgrade are usually either a particular game or some sort of failure. My prior 2600k was getting a little flaky - CPU Motherboard and RAM were all second-hand - which triggered an early upgrade for me in 2019.
They are x2 too. I don't think X4 will get such a boost between the two of the them.
