Idea for late(?) game Xenon and Defense Towers

[Yeshe]

Hi everyone,

Please feel free to move this post, I had read about a dedicated branch for ideas and such some time ago but can't find it.
I hope this is spoiler free enough, can't talk about things without giving away that they exist...

"Defense Towers" at gates and highway exit. They are a great but when I got everything together for building Murder Discs (tm) and practically closed down my first gate to Xenon space I thought "Hm, noone else seems to be building defense stations this strong. This seems op, I wonder what will happen later..." (Yes, by now I know about what I might make happen later ^-^)

This is an idea for ongoing gate-warfare with those (kinda) op defense stations and about leveling the playing field.
What if the Xenon would understand the principle after some time and started building such constructs at their side of the gate themselves?
In my current / first playthrough the Xenon are effectively boxed in inside quite a few nice sectors to just continue to exist.
Their problem now seems to be that while they always loose all ships when they try to break out of there, other factions start taking over the first sector behind the blockade. Not if the Xenon are building strong defense stations, too!
The gateway would be effectively closed from both sides but both sides would also still lose ships from trying to break through every now and then. (Good for profitss!)

But, you may ask now, what if I would like to break through and take over one such sector from the Xenon?
Boso Ta enters the stage from the right "I wonder..."
Yes, you somehow sneak-place a beacon right through the gate between the Xenon Murder Stations (tm) and some costly research later *BOOM* stations no more...

Addendum: The silly (tm)s are my attempt at satire

[vvvvvvvv]

What if the Xenon would understand the principle after some time and started building such constructs at their side of the gate themselves?

They would win.

There's no counterplay for defensive station at the gates. You jump in, you're vaporized instantly regardless of ship class. That's the reason AI does not use this tactic.

----

Basically, a Jump Gate is a natural chokepoint, and in real life world scenario any faction would have a minefield, a debris field, a couple million laser towers and a fleet of a few hundred ship pointed at it at all times. So anyone unwelcome will just see the light and become nothing.

That is not a whole lot of fun from gameplay perspective, because there's no real counterplay. You're supposed to enter the system through the gate, and there's no jump drive. So you enter a gate with such defense and you'll be vaporized. Gate blocking works extremely well against xenon, even if you can only vaporize small ships, as it drains their resources.

[dtpsprt]

The op Xenon Defence Stations at the gates can be a good idea if the devs can make it happen after (and only after) the player has built their own.

This way they can survive where the player wants them contained.

Of course that would make for a very boring game IMHO

As for "bombarding" the Xenon Defence Station, really? I never research High Mass Teleportation...

[Yeshe]

... after (and only after) the player has built their own.

Absolutely correct, yes. A (side-)story quest to build a Murder Station (tm) would take care of that. It's expensive, needs a boatload of blueprints etc., so it wouldn't be something that disturbs early game.

Of course that would make for a very boring game IMHO

I feel it more boring that the xen get removed from the universe, slowly but surely, without me being able to help it. I don't think I can take on TER, yet...

As for "bombarding" the Xenon Defence Station, really? I never research High Mass Teleportation...

I have no idea yet if this already has that effect on stations, too. Boso does hint at something that could mean that ...

[Yeshe]

They would win.

Not if the players already know how to build their own Murder Stations (tm)? Then it would lead to a stalemate that's good for profitss...
As for how to break such a stalemate see op.

Basically, a Jump Gate is a natural chokepoint...

Doors and corners, kid. That's were they get you. Doors and corners...

... even if you can only vaporize small ships...

Huh? With my Murder Stations (tm) I can't even pause the game quick enough when I hear an alarm to scroll the map over to see any K or I alive. (Unless it cheated the entry point far enough away from the gate, as they sometimes do.)

[vvvvvvvv]

They would win.

Not if the players already know how to build their own Murder Stations (tm)? Then it would lead to a stalemate that's good for profitss...
As for how to break such a stalemate see op.

Basically, a Jump Gate is a natural chokepoint...

Doors and corners, kid. That's were they get you. Doors and corners...

... even if you can only vaporize small ships...

Huh? With my Murder Stations (tm) I can't even pause the game quick enough when I hear an alarm to scroll the map over to see any K or I alive. (Unless it cheated the entry point far enough away from the gate, as they sometimes do.)

Xenon build out of raw materials and do not need construction ships. That's why they win. To teleport HQ, you need to place a beacon. To place a beacon, you need to pass through the gate. When you pass through the gate, the station will vaporize you. A "Wall of death" station means you'll lose all ships passing through the sector. There are no "profitss" when all your ships are gone.

You can also plug gates without building stations, that tactic has no counterplay either, that's why AI does not use it.

[Yeshe]

To teleport HQ, you need to place a beacon. To place a beacon, you need to pass through the gate...

Hence the "somehow" in my op. You are absolutely right, that's why it's only an idea with me having no clue if it's doable or needs too many changes. I was thinking back to the Rodent or like that.

You can also plug gates without building stations, that tactic has no counterplay either, that's why AI does not use it.

Yes, so true and I am very grateful that the AI doesn't use it!

[Baconnaise]

They would win.

Not if the players already know how to build their own Murder Stations (tm)? Then it would lead to a stalemate that's good for profitss...
As for how to break such a stalemate see op.

Basically, a Jump Gate is a natural chokepoint...

Doors and corners, kid. That's were they get you. Doors and corners...

... even if you can only vaporize small ships...

Huh? With my Murder Stations (tm) I can't even pause the game quick enough when I hear an alarm to scroll the map over to see any K or I alive. (Unless it cheated the entry point far enough away from the gate, as they sometimes do.)

Xenon build out of raw materials and do not need construction ships. That's why they win. To teleport HQ, you need to place a beacon. To place a beacon, you need to pass through the gate. When you pass through the gate, the station will vaporize you. A "Wall of death" station means you'll lose all ships passing through the sector. There are no "profitss" when all your ships are gone.

You can also plug gates without building stations, that tactic has no counterplay either, that's why AI does not use it.

If Egosoft added Jump drives and fuel like in Rebirth to X4 even those used a beacon in each zone. You still run into the chokepoint issue. The only real counter I can think of is like sappers for fortifications. You send your fastest smallest ships with beacons and have them travel drive into a sector edge. I'm not a fan of that though as we don't even know how many light years certain sectors are from each other. I know it's a game and unrealistic but something wouldn't sit right with me at least in this game if that happened. The other would be Xenon as they did jumpdrives so one would think they would set honeypots or an interdiction area to catch such tactics.

[vvvvvvvv]

I'm not a fan of that though as we don't even know how many light years certain sectors are from each other.

I beleive there was a galaxy map in Rebirth with actual sector locations (I'm not sure, I'd need to reinstall to check). If my memory is right some sectors are on opposite sides of galaxy. Meaning 20-50 kLy between them.

Regarding Xenon, "the machine is immortal", meaning they can travel at sublight speed (meaning 0.99999c or something) between stars taking their time.

[Baconnaise]

I'm not a fan of that though as we don't even know how many light years certain sectors are from each other.

I beleive there was a galaxy map in Rebirth with actual sector locations (I'm not sure, I'd need to reinstall to check). If my memory is right some sectors are on opposite sides of galaxy. Meaning 20-50 kLy between them.

Regarding Xenon, "the machine is immortal", meaning they can travel at sublight speed (meaning 0.99999c or something) between stars taking their time.

Yea. I've always imagined Xenon like the Tyranid in that regard where they just tentacle outwards with various fleets. Slow and steady wins the race. Take some terran apes with you and seed them along the way as a sort of jem'hadar in case things go unexpectedly and you run into a species you find difficult. Sick the apes on whatever it is as a distraction while you remain in the shadows.

[vvvvvvvv]

I'm not a fan of that though as we don't even know how many light years certain sectors are from each other.

I beleive there was a galaxy map in Rebirth with actual sector locations (I'm not sure, I'd need to reinstall to check). If my memory is right some sectors are on opposite sides of galaxy. Meaning 20-50 kLy between them.

Regarding Xenon, "the machine is immortal", meaning they can travel at sublight speed (meaning 0.99999c or something) between stars taking their time.

Yea. I've always imagined Xenon like the Tyranid in that regard where they just tentacle outwards with various fleets. Slow and steady wins the race. Take some terran apes with you and seed them along the way as a sort of jem'hadar in case things go unexpectedly and you run into a species you find difficult. Sick the apes on whatever it is as a distraction while you remain in the shadows.

I'd like to think that in 800 years since their creation Xenon probably spread over millions if not billions of stars and evolved. And the machines player is exposed to are outdated version, stragglers and rejects, running on half-a millennia old software, while beyond the gate network, a nearly sohnenn level cluster intelligence is biding its time.

However, it is doubtful Egosoft will play with this idea. It is nearly lovecraftian, and there's no hope of victory for organics.

[Baconnaise]

I beleive there was a galaxy map in Rebirth with actual sector locations (I'm not sure, I'd need to reinstall to check). If my memory is right some sectors are on opposite sides of galaxy. Meaning 20-50 kLy between them.

Regarding Xenon, "the machine is immortal", meaning they can travel at sublight speed (meaning 0.99999c or something) between stars taking their time.

Yea. I've always imagined Xenon like the Tyranid in that regard where they just tentacle outwards with various fleets. Slow and steady wins the race. Take some terran apes with you and seed them along the way as a sort of jem'hadar in case things go unexpectedly and you run into a species you find difficult. Sick the apes on whatever it is as a distraction while you remain in the shadows.

I'd like to think that in 800 years since their creation Xenon probably spread over millions if not billions of stars and evolved. And the machines player is exposed to are outdated version, stragglers and rejects, running on half-a millennia old software, while beyond the gate network, a nearly sohnenn level cluster intelligence is biding its time.

However, it is doubtful Egosoft will play with this idea. It is nearly lovecraftian, and there's no hope of victory for organics.

Oh, that wouldn't be bad either.