that police scan bug and lack of empathy

[rudi_pioneer]

Almost Daily, someone reddit or here posts about frustration how police scan bug causes their empire to regress and makes them want to quit the game.

And then responses here from staff are 'can't do anything without repro save', as if there are no other options (lots of things that could be done with scan script! even if intermittent). Total lack of empathy and care. Given how hard to repro is, it might be related to physics and ships slipping out of scan range, and it's not like players chose to have physics engine updated. Take responsibility for X4 changes and don't let players have awful experience for something they can't control.

Mod I made to deal with the issue had 3,500 subscribers on steam. 3,500!!! That shouldn't be the how things are done. My mod shouldn't exist, let alone be responsible for that many people being able to enjoy the game. And I'm also maintaining the mod because I don't want folks to have same stress and give up on the game as well.

Yes getting true repro save is hard/impossible. But at least try something. Maybe temporarily remove police scan to fail on ship moving away, or add additional check for illegal cargo when 'escape' is detected? better logging so we can give you right info?

[Sutopia]

I believe it’s a bug caused by rogue reference during long game sessions. I have had police aggro on my trader with reason of “illegal inventory” who has empty haul and empty inventory and policy set to comply. It only seem to happen if Ive played the game for a few hrs. The reason it cannot reproduce is probably a memory leak somewhere that cannot be uncovered without a long running session ie loading a save can never reproduce it.

[LameFox]

I believe it’s a bug caused by rogue reference during long game sessions. I have had police aggro on my trader with reason of “illegal inventory” who has empty haul and empty inventory and policy set to comply. It only seem to happen if Ive played the game for a few hrs. The reason it cannot reproduce is probably a memory leak somewhere that cannot be uncovered without a long running session ie loading a save can never reproduce it.

One thing I can say it definitely doesn't need is a long running session, because I've had it happen to a scout ship in a new game before. A rapier with no wares of any kind, set to comply, performing an explore order in Neptune.

[Terre]

I've stopped playing X4, until this is listed as fixed.

[vvvvvvvv]

And then responses here from staff are 'can't do anything without repro save', as if there are no other options (lots of things that could be done with scan script! even if intermittent). Total lack of empathy and care. Given how hard to repro is,

They also could implement aggressive logging of all relevant data. When you can't repro, you still can make software print out enough data to figure out what's going on.

One scenario when reputation spiral begins is when you cancel wait order your ship receives upon being scanned. If ship fails to wait, police gets angry.

[Ragnos28]

I also experienced this spiral loss of reputation when the police aggro my patrols, happen in the Earth sector, plunging my terran rep from +30 to -15.
A solution I found, that seems to work so far, is to set Default global response to Police interdiction to Comply, for military ships as well, the default setting for them being Use default response, that seem to cause the issue.

[Socratatus]

Well if they aren't listening to you guys (even modders trying to fix it) what chance has the rest of us got?

[flywlyx]

Murphy's Law is in full effect here. The whole AI police request and AI captain response loop will only lead to delays and bugs.
Until Egosoft decides to eliminate these redundant requirements, I believe this type of bug will remain unavoidable.

[CBJ]

Well if they aren't listening to you guys (even modders trying to fix it) what chance has the rest of us got?

The idea that we are not listening is quite simply false, as is the OP's claim that we are lacking in empathy. We want to get this issue resolved as much as players do. We have tried all the obvious things that people in this thread have suggested, without success. That only leaves us with finding a way to reproduce the problem, which is what we have asked people who experience the problem to try and help us with.

[Socratatus]

Well if they aren't listening to you guys (even modders trying to fix it) what chance has the rest of us got?

The idea that we are not listening is quite simply false, as is the OP's claim that we are lacking in empathy. We want to get this issue resolved as much as players do. We have tried all the obvious things that people in this thread have suggested, without success. That only leaves us with finding a way to reproduce the problem, which is what we have asked people who experience the problem to try and help us with.

Well, thankyou for your response, anyway. Hopefully, you'll find an answer.

[fipmip]

when you say you want a save file, do you mean a file saved just before the incedent?

also, think about the actual mechanic. the police get hostile and try to kill your ship. they then suicide into your stuff and cause a rep spiral. how is that a good idea even if the mechanic was working as intended? i think the system should be reworked to have more intelligent police that dont suicide and just give up after a while, or just a different penalty like paying a fine. or maybe it represents hotheads escalating a traffic violation into a police siege shootout confrontation but you should be able to comm the attacking faction and surrender and pay the bill for crimes racked up.

[CBJ]

when you say you want a save file, do you mean a file saved just before the incedent?

Yes, just before the incident, and where the incident happens reasonably reliably afterwards. And yes, we do realise that this is very difficult to achieve, but that's exactly why it's so valuable and why we're asking players for help. A handful of testers have very little chance of achieving this, but across thousands of players, someone might manage to catch just the right circumstances.

[EGO_Aut]

when you say you want a save file, do you mean a file saved just before the incedent?

Yes, just before the incident, and where the incident happens reasonably reliably afterwards. And yes, we do realise that this is very difficult to achieve, but that's exactly why it's so valuable and why we're asking players for help. A handful of testers have very little chance of achieving this, but across thousands of players, someone might manage to catch just the right circumstances.

viewtopic.php?p=5149043#p5149043

Maybe someone of you downloaded it before the servers got offline

[Zandros]

Just had it happen at most 3 minutes after a save. But it didn't happen again on a reload, maybe because this time round the ship wasn't scanned despite repeating the exact same move. The ship was also completely empty with no Pilot inventory and I still got the message illegal wares found, which however didn't appear in the Log only in the ticker. In the Log there was only that the ship responded by complying followed by unauthorized killing.

I am not sure there is much chance of a player getting a reproducible save by random chance at least not quickly or easily. Maybe try forcing it by creating an artificial scenario with loads of player ships and police ships flying around and constantly being scanned and scanning?

[Zaihbot]

Just had it happen at most 3 minutes after a save. But it didn't happen again on a reload, maybe because this time round the ship wasn't scanned despite repeating the exact same move.

If you have the time, could you reload the save several times and see if it happens again?
I also downloaded a save another user shared and I reloaded it around 10 times. Sometimes police turned hostile, sometimes they don't. Just like in your case, the cargo was empty and the pilot didn't carry any items.


And if you notice the bug happens sometimes in your save, it would be nice if you could share it in the technical forum.

[Duncaroos]

I've had cases of a miner picking up a mined asteroid created by another faction's miner before (was via a miner drone pickup). I wonder if it is something similar.

Could someone in more detail explain the issue? Just random uncalled for police aggression? Or perhaps post links to these threads? Unfortunately I'm playing modded (VRO), but maybe there needs to be a sticky tech thread for this specific issue since it is such mystery that seems can only be caught by shear luck.

Is there a mod/tool that can be installed and run to create a live log file during an active game for all policing AI targeting player ships that can help?

[Phezzan]

The whole idea of a tiny police ship going hostile against even a light fighter is ludicrous.
Even a split would think better than becoming a one-shot dust cloud.

What if instead the police scan generated a timed 'mission' to fly that ship somewhere to be scanned or drop that cargo.
The mission generated could depend on race / faction rep / type of 'violating' ship.

Teladi - pay a 'fine'
Argon - drop cargo / perform criminal traffic scans
Paranid - ...
Split - do espionage/hack/destroy/kill against faction enemy as recompense

Failing that mission could result in faction rep loss, or a harder mission, the station could refuse docking until the mission is complete - or it could allow you dock but charge higher prices (like a signal leak discount, but as a penalty) or maybe the whole sector does this instead of just a station...

But TBH - no space cop on a space motorcycle is going to commit seppuku by attacking a space tank armed with fully automated AI murder-cannons

[Baconnaise]

I've had cases of a miner picking up a mined asteroid created by another faction's miner before (was via a miner drone pickup). I wonder if it is something similar.

Could someone in more detail explain the issue? Just random uncalled for police aggression? Or perhaps post links to these threads? Unfortunately I'm playing modded (VRO), but maybe there needs to be a sticky tech thread for this specific issue since it is such mystery that seems can only be caught by shear luck.

Is there a mod/tool that can be installed and run to create a llive og file during an active game for all policing AI targeting player ships that can help?

Yea the invuln mod for player owned stuff. One of the Russian guys I think puts those out. Anyways I"ve seen the vanilla behavior of the ludicrous police scan thing happen regardless even modded to the hilt on this game with invuln or whatever. Kinda crazy they're still in game wasting resources TBH.

[rudi_pioneer]

Well if they aren't listening to you guys (even modders trying to fix it) what chance has the rest of us got?

The idea that we are not listening is quite simply false, as is the OP's claim that we are lacking in empathy. We want to get this issue resolved as much as players do. We have tried all the obvious things that people in this thread have suggested, without success. That only leaves us with finding a way to reproduce the problem, which is what we have asked people who experience the problem to try and help us with.

Can we get some tools to help us figure this out? Clearly waiting for save isn’t viable strategy, and it makes game unplayable for specific type of players.

For example, can you suggest some extra logging we can do in recon move xml file? (File is too complex for me to add meaningful logs - mod i did that avoids police scan for player ships has been was 5th luck attempt).

Can this scan mechanic have an extra step to double check for this? Could mechanic be changed temporarily while this is worked on?

AFAIK this issue has been out more than a year (almost 2?), there has to be some threshold to do something besides “give us save please”. We’re trying, it’s clearly very difficult to impossible to do.

[Zandros]

If you have the time, could you reload the save several times and see if it happens again?
I also downloaded a save another user shared and I reloaded it around 10 times. Sometimes police turned hostile, sometimes they don't. Just like in your case, the cargo was empty and the pilot didn't carry any items.

And if you notice the bug happens sometimes in your save, it would be nice if you could share it in the technical forum.

Just tried it 5 more times it didn't happen again even once, but I watched the ship on the map the whole time every time it also wasn't scanned in any of the attempts. The decision what ships to scan seems to happen very shortly before the scanning.
But the completely empty thing could that be part of the problem? That the error only happens when the police doesn't find anything not even anything legal? Maybe the code fails when it gets a null pointer?