[6.00 Kingdom End DLC] Bug: ALI Mission Chain - Reputation Hit on Positive Answers (Spoilers)

[Varyah]

I'm doing the ALI mission chain to find Kingdom End.

While mediating between parties after meeting Leda We I can offer as resolution two options regarding Kha'ak and regarding Leda We's other fears.

When suggesting to exterminate the Kha'ak and when suggesting using Nila Ti's royal connections Leda We is reacting rather angry - but no reputation loss is incurred.

When suggesting to avoid provoking the Kha'ak and when suggesting to help secure the borders Leda We is reacting very positively - but you lose 3 points in reputation with the faction.

Presumably this should be exactly the other way around - or you are supposed to gain reputation for the more welcomed answers?

[Ketraar]

You need to talk to the other people before making a choice.

MFG

Ketraar

[Varyah]

I did.

[tlill]

I noted the same thing. Reloaded and tried different combinations - I'm sure I've unlocked all possibilities. Definately feels the wrong way around for the reputation hit.

[Raptor34]

I talked to Leda first, afaict exhausted all the options and they started repeating. Then went to Nila, did the same, and then finally went to the Paranid and did the same.
For the Paranid I picked the more positive actions. Basically the more Boron stuff, like not accusing them of wanting more power iirc.
Then when I went back to Leda and picked the Boron answers, I got +3 rep after completing that section.

Edit: Forgot to mention I was at 0 before this. And got to +3.

[Varyah]

Explored the mediation conversation trees further:

1. Talked to Leda We:
   • Are you ok?
   • Perhaps we reconvene? Try again?
   • Why are you in this situation?
   • Perhaps there is a positive solution?
     -> Boso Ta interjects that I should talk to everyone else first
   • Goodbye
2. Talked to Nila Ti:
   • Your quest for home was an 'obsession'?
   • What is he afraid of?
   • Dangerous situation?
   • Goodbye
3. Talked to Numanckaret:
   • Patience towards the close-minded (the other option gives ALI reputation hit and makes no difference otherwise)
     • Leda We is afraid
     • He fears outside incursions.
     • He certainly fears the Kha'ak.
     • Goodbye
4. Talked to Leda We:
   • Perhaps there is a positive solution?
   • About the Kha'ak threat...
     1. ...we use force to resolve this. Permanently. (negative response)
     2. ...we aim to avoid provocation at all cost. (positive response)
   • If you help we could...
     1. ...provide security to protect your borders. (positive response)
     2. ...use Nila's ties to increase your standing. (negative response)

Results:

• Choosing the two positive responses, b) and i), results in -2 reputation (note: not -3 as I reported initially) - and Leda We happily agreeing to cooperate.
• Choosing one each, b) and ii) or c) and i) results in no reputation change - and Leda We agrees immediately to help.
• Choosing both negative responses, c) and ii), results in no reputation change - despite Leda We reacting completely outraged by Numanckaret's economic blackmail, throwing back insults, and reluctantly agreeing.

[chew-ie]

Explored the mediation conversation trees further:
....

Hey Varyah, thanks for this overview. Small correction from my side - the positive responses yielded +3 reputation for me.

[tlill]

I started at +5 and ended up with +3 after what sounded like the best options (happiest boron responses), a net loss of -2 which I saw in the messaging, while the one where I got scolded, I remained at +5.

[chew-ie]

I started at +5 and ended up with +3 after what sounded like the best options (happiest boron responses), a net loss of -2 which I saw in the messaging, while the one where I got scolded, I remained at +5.

Odd. I just tested my save again, here is my result (no change). Started with 0 Rep for BOR, after the dialogue I had +3 which was also correctly logged in the log:

Reputation (after dialogue)


Log entry

[darkmoor123]

Perhaps it is setting it to +3 regardless of current value, meaning there is a loss if you already have rep?

[chew-ie]

Perhaps it is setting it to +3 regardless of current value, meaning there is a loss if you already have rep?

Good point - devs should definately check that

[Varyah]

I started at +5 and ended up with +3 after what sounded like the best options (happiest boron responses), a net loss of -2 which I saw in the messaging, while the one where I got scolded, I remained at +5.

Same here, started with +5 ended up with +3.

I checked the md files (story_boron_prelude.xml and story_boron.xml) - but from what I can tell the logic seems solid, you get a +1 score for each of the happy Boron answers and if you get a final score of +2 (starting at 0) you unlock the achievement "Respect and Understanding" and receive 0.002 reputation (internal representation of reputation). So the bug may be somewhere else. Given that others started with 0 reputation, seeing differing results, the issue might be in how initial reputation is setup with Boron which I couldn't quite pin down on first glance. My best guess is: the displayed value stored in a different variable than the actual variable representing the source of truth on reputation that updates the displayed one once modified, the displayed value is initialized a bit wonky but the end result is the same: start with +5 (displayed) end up with +3, start with 0 (displayed) end up with +3?

The md files also contain some comments indicating that you are supposed to end up at a fixed level of reputation of +10 from doing a certain part of the plot; so different players starting with different initial reputation seems to contradict that. On the other hand - never trust comments in code....

[Alan Phipps]

You may find that the rep loss/gain is a number of points and not a number of levels. As rep points per level is non-linear, the number of points changed between rep levels 0 -> +/-3 may seem similar to that for levels 3 -> 5.

[Raptor34]

You may find that the rep loss/gain is a number of points and not a number of levels. As rep points per level is non-linear, the number of points changed between rep levels 0 -> +/-3 may seem similar to that for levels 3 -> 5.

Yeah, but isn't the issue that people are going from +5 -> +3? Unless you can actually lose rep from this.

[Alan Phipps]

Sure, I'm not defending the original report that the *intended* rep gains and losses might seem illogically linked with the responses and outcomes. I'm just explaining why sometimes it is 2 levels and sometimes 3, which other people commented about as a potential further bug.

[Varyah]

Sure, I'm not defending the original report that the *intended* rep gains and losses might seem illogically linked with the responses and outcomes. I'm just explaining why sometimes it is 2 levels and sometimes 3, which other people commented about as a potential further bug.

As I mentioned, my initial report of a loss of 3 points of reputation was a mistake on my part; it was a loss of 2 points of reputation. As for links between responses and outcomes the behaviour seems completely consistent when replaying the conversations. Further, at least judging from the comments in this thread, it seems pretty consistent that you end up at a total of +3 reputation at that step in the plot (given happy Boron answers) - some players simply get there from 5 and some from 0. Result is the same either way; some players just experience a reputation loss notification while that Boron appears ecstatic about your answer - mildly irritating at best

[conorthecop]

It looks like the bug is fixed! I just restarted and got a +5 rep with the Boron after completing the positive, Boron-like answers!!

[CBJ]

Thanks, but the thread is two years old, so it wasn't really worth digging it up.