Egosoft use chatgpt?

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ccflash
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Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by ccflash »

Question could egosoft use chat gpt in x4?
Like could egosoft connect npc characters to the AI so we can have conversations with them?
Or, i have even read that chat gpt can debug code.
Could egosoft use chat gpt to help speed up development process?
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by LameFox »

I think making that work smoothly would be a lot more effort than you might expect. Just talking isn't enough, they'd have to talk in character, including all the limits of what's in the game universe and what the character should know. Someone would therefore have to test this and adjust the AI to keep it within the intended limits.

So far, even the huge multibillion dollar companies wielding these things struggle to control the weird things they say.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by chew-ie »

Only if they plan to screw up. Chat gpt is not the holy grail everybody tries to make it. In fact it's just hyped but at its core it's just a stupid text generator. There is nothing intelligent or "helpful".
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by CBJ »

ChatGPT's coding abilities are rather... variable... in quality still at the moment. They are currently good enough to save a programmer a few minutes with a simple algorithm or process, but nowhere near reliable enough to write code that could be used as-is, or actually speed up the development process to any significant degree. How long it will be before that changes remains to be seen, but for now, we won't be relying on it for anything too important. :)

As for in-game conversations, it's not quick enough to handle that, yet. Again, though, things are changing fast, and it may not be long before AI can be used for various features in games, to increase variety and immersion.

Note that if people want to discuss the relevance of this to X4 further, then that's fine, but if the discussion moves the wider context of this and games in general, then we'll move the thread over to the off-topic forum.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Socratatus »

I've waited 20 years in the hope of seeing a decent AI in games. Compared to graphics it's been a slow crawl.
1. Please do more on NPC civilian/uniform variety, and bio customisations, Devs.
2. Stations need sirens/warnings when enemy is close in numbers or Station in danger of destruction (in Sandbox).
Yes, for immersion. Thankyou ahead of time. (Edit: This is actually happening!!!)

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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by mr.WHO »

I wouldn't jump into AI yet, as many countries are preparing AI ragulations due to privacy, copy-right and safery issues.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Skeeter »

They could use it to fill out a return of x2 bulletin board system. ;)

I mean south park just made 2 weeks ago a ep entirely written by chatgpt or so they say. So if good enough for them and most thought the ep was ok and didnt know, then should be good enough for ego ;). So get into it before the legalities of it start making policy. :p
Last edited by Skeeter on Sun, 2. Apr 23, 08:11, edited 1 time in total.
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magitsu
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by magitsu »

I'd actually start out of the game. Gigastructural Engineering mod for Stellaris has run a set of lore-themed character AI's (see chatbots-discussion at Gigastructural discord) with great success. It's surprising to see how well they stick to lore/character and help build it.
Direct link to for example Kaiser Kattail here: https://beta.character.ai/chat?char=MA3 ... yTQc7ftjYE
Here's a picture example with few prompts that make sense: https://imgur.com/a/4JUs88v (first question was Explain your war strategy)

External content would be valuable for marketing purposes. If it was used to develop encyclopedia, that would work for both in and outside of the game.

I'd imagine Boso Ta wouldn't perhaps be the most coveted talking partner. It would have to be someone with enough produced content to mimic. Which might reveal the general lack of it, since X games follow each other quite loosely. But it could be rectified with community curated help if necessary. I think we could use some in-game figureheads for X series which could if lucky gain some recognition outside of hardcore X players. Currently races or a specific ship is probably the best known.

Perhaps it could be X franchise history narrator personality? There's a ton of players wio haven't played anything beyond X3, and X4 is the only one for some. They could use a quick way to find out their place in the in-game world.
Alternatively Xenon matrix or Khaak personality. But since they have barely any lore, it could prove challenging to find enough for them to build on without them pumping out purely non-canon stuff.

It could be useful overall to develop the lore to a point where most key entities have enough of it for a chatbot to make sense of. Because you know, they can probably make sense to players at that point too. Now it's really hard to say what the factions are about. You can basically just say that Ter is tech king/autarky/isolationist, Split is clan/warlike, Teladi is business, Par practices religion. But ALI, MIN... basically nothing. Sohnen in X3 was slightly more thoroughly explored.

Could the X universe books be fed to character ai?
Toshis8
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Toshis8 »

Had the same thought too, would be interesting to have NPCs in game (any game) that can realistically react to events and player actions (actions of other NPCs too), generate unique dialogue, etc. Though i imagine it would be a lot of work to define starting parameters of each NPC in the game - their personality, morality, relations, what they should already know etc.

Imagine taking modern game back 30 or 50 years and showing it for the people of that time - probably their minds would be blown away. Think gaming has an interesting future. Video games are aggregate of all arts - graphic design, music, story.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Katorone »

Toshis8 wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 12:02 Had the same thought too, would be interesting to have NPCs in game (any game) that can realistically react to events and player actions (actions of other NPCs too), generate unique dialogue, etc. Though i imagine it would be a lot of work to define starting parameters of each NPC in the game - their personality, morality, relations, what they should already know etc.
There's also the question where the AI code should run. Should it be an internet service, or run embedded into the game. Both have up and down-sides.
If an AI needs to be aware of an NPCs history, how far will we go with that? How much will savefiles grow in size? And, if NPCs are able to tell stories about their experiences, will those stories be consistent, or would it change every time the player talks to that NPC?

At the same time, I don't want NPCs to talk my ear off about how profitable their Wheat shipment was, or having to dig down in huge amounts of (voiced) text before getting to hear the details of what I wanted to know; The events of a few days prior and why the pilot decided to take a certain action. But then, the Chat-AI can't really know why an NPC has performed a certain action, it can only tell a story about what happened.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by ccflash »

Katorone wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 16:45
Toshis8 wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 12:02 Had the same thought too, would be interesting to have NPCs in game (any game) that can realistically react to events and player actions (actions of other NPCs too), generate unique dialogue, etc. Though i imagine it would be a lot of work to define starting parameters of each NPC in the game - their personality, morality, relations, what they should already know etc.
There's also the question where the AI code should run. Should it be an internet service, or run embedded into the game. Both have up and down-sides.
If an AI needs to be aware of an NPCs history, how far will we go with that? How much will savefiles grow in size? And, if NPCs are able to tell stories about their experiences, will those stories be consistent, or would it change every time the player talks to that NPC?

At the same time, I don't want NPCs to talk my ear off about how profitable their Wheat shipment was, or having to dig down in huge amounts of (voiced) text before getting to hear the details of what I wanted to know; The events of a few days prior and why the pilot decided to take a certain action. But then, the Chat-AI can't really know why an NPC has performed a certain action, it can only tell a story about what happened.
Well if the NPC is boring to talk to its very simple. Don't talk to them! Just like real boring ppl that have stories of how amazing their coffee experience was in the morning. I think if ego soft implemented a single NPC character with the AI as an experiment. Maybe a fighter pilot looking for a new path who works as a great wingman. You could sit there for hours just talking with the char while micromanaging your empire.
ccflash
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by ccflash »

Ok so I asked Chat GPT and it said it could do it.


*ccFlash
hey i got a question for you

Sure, I'm here to help. What's your question?

*ccFlash
are you able to post on forums?

As an AI language model, I don't have the ability to post on forums directly. However, I can provide you with the necessary information or advice on how to post on forums effectively. Just let me know what you need help with!

*ccFlash
can you read a forum?

Yes, I can read a forum. As an AI language model, I can process text and understand the context of the information presented to me. If you have a specific forum you'd like me to read, feel free to provide the link and I can try to help you with any questions or concerns you may have about the content.

*ccFlash
ok read this forum where we are talking about you viewtopic.php?f=146&t=453142&p=5170207#p5170207

I apologize, but as an AI language model, I cannot access external websites or forums directly. However, if you have any questions or concerns regarding the content of the forum, I would be happy to try and assist you based on the information you provide.

*ccFlash
ok some context do you know the company egosoft?

Yes, I am familiar with Egosoft. It is a German video game developer and publisher that is primarily known for its space simulation games, such as the X series. The company was founded in 1988 by Bernd Lehahn and is based in Würselen, Germany.

*ccFlash
ok so i asked in the forum this question. Question could egosoft use chat gpt in x4?
Like could egosoft connect npc characters to the AI so we can have conversations with them?
Or, i have even read that chat gpt can debug code.
Could egosoft use chat gpt to help speed up development process?

what is your take on it

Using a language model like Chat GPT in a game like X4 could certainly be an interesting idea. Implementing an AI system to control NPC conversations could potentially enhance the player experience and make the game feel more dynamic and immersive.

However, the implementation of such a system would require a significant amount of development effort, as well as careful consideration of the resources required to run the AI system in real-time. Additionally, integrating a language model like Chat GPT would likely require a significant amount of data input and fine-tuning to ensure that the AI-generated conversations were relevant and engaging.

Regarding using Chat GPT to debug code, while it's true that language models like GPT can be used for code generation, they are generally better suited for generating natural language text. For code generation, more specialized tools such as compilers and debuggers are typically used. Nonetheless, the application of GPT or similar language models could potentially assist with other development tasks such as natural language processing and data analysis.

Overall, while implementing an AI system like Chat GPT in X4 could potentially have benefits, it would also require significant development resources and careful consideration of the potential drawbacks and limitations.

*ccFlash
What if they implemented this idea so a single npc. That would be a great test case? would it be that difficult?

Implementing the idea of using Chat GPT for a single NPC character could certainly be a good starting point to test the viability and effectiveness of such a system. It would allow developers to experiment with the implementation and fine-tune the AI-generated conversations with one character, before expanding the system to include more characters in the game.

However, even implementing the system for a single NPC character would require a significant amount of development effort, as the AI system would need to be integrated with the game's existing NPC behavior system and the conversational content would need to be created and curated. Additionally, the system would need to be optimized to run efficiently in real-time without causing performance issues or crashes.

Overall, while implementing this idea for a single NPC character would be a good way to test the concept, it would still require a significant amount of development effort and careful planning to ensure that the system is effective and does not negatively impact the game's performance or overall player experience.

*ccFlash
can you assume that you are a character? Then make responses like you were that character?

Yes, as an AI language model, I can generate responses as if I were a specific character or persona. However, it's important to note that as an AI language model, I do not have emotions or consciousness like a human being, and my responses are generated based on patterns and associations in the data I was trained on. So while I can generate responses that emulate the style or tone of a particular character, my responses are not based on any personal experiences or emotions.

*ccFlash
ok so we make a robot character

Sure, we can imagine a robot character and I can try to generate responses as if I were that character. What would you like the robot character to be like, and what kind of responses are you looking for?

*ccFlash
ok before we do what parameters would you need to create this character?

To create a character, we would need to define certain parameters such as:

Personality traits: What kind of personality does the robot have? Is it friendly, sarcastic, serious, or humorous?

Speech patterns: Does the robot speak in a monotone voice, or does it have inflection and intonation in its speech?

Knowledge base: What kind of information does the robot have access to? What topics is it knowledgeable about?

Background and history: What is the robot's backstory? Where was it created, and for what purpose?

Goals and motivations: What does the robot want to achieve, and what motivates it to act?

Once we have defined these parameters, I can generate responses that align with the personality, speech patterns, knowledge base, and background of the robot character.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Katorone »

ccflash wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 17:57 Well if the NPC is boring to talk to its very simple. Don't talk to them! Just like real boring ppl that have stories of how amazing their coffee experience was in the morning. I think if ego soft implemented a single NPC character with the AI as an experiment. Maybe a fighter pilot looking for a new path who works as a great wingman. You could sit there for hours just talking with the char while micromanaging your empire.
Funny, X-Rebirth went in that direction, it wasn't received well. :D
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by magitsu »

Katorone wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 18:23 Funny, X-Rebirth went in that direction, it wasn't received well. :D
Yeah, Yisha was a bit repetitive. Some of the previous X's had scantily clad npcs too, so it's ok they weened the franchise off of them with XR (though it also had "space grandma" npcs). At least Yisha felt like a plausible personality instead of just gratification.
Here's Saya Kho, who probably wouldn't fit in the game looking quite like that anymore: https://youtu.be/OUYgJfJDA_E?t=46

Chatgpt seemed to be far more realistic than many of these hopeful suggestion makers. I suggest anyone wanting it to move forward make a character in character.ai beta like the example above. That at least forces someone to find out whether there is enough material to feed it.

Maybe savegame data combined with the new camera feature could be combined to make a news announcer feed. :roll:
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Katorone »

magitsu wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 18:28 Yeah, Yisha was a bit repetitive. Some of the previous X's had scantily clad npcs too, so it's ok they weened the franchise off of them with XR (though it also had "space grandma" npcs). At least Yisha felt like a plausible personality instead of just gratification.
Here's Saya Kho, who probably wouldn't fit in the game looking quite like that anymore: https://youtu.be/OUYgJfJDA_E?t=46
This is just Egosoft being ahead of the curve, they predicted low-rider jeans with that outfit. :lol:
magitsu wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 18:28 Chatgpt seemed to be far more realistic than many of these hopeful suggestion makers. I suggest anyone wanting it to move forward make a character in character.ai beta like the example above. That at least forces someone to find out whether there is enough material to feed it.
That's a good idea! I suspect much data can be gleaned from racial histories, with some variation on conviction and morals. For instance a Split's stance on slavery could be very diverse. There would also be Split who are against slavery because it's politically convenient but don't have moral qualms with it. This way, factions could determine what the ranges are on specific political stances. Personal histories can be created in semi-random ways, taken from known planets and stations. A "global" history could be filled out in more detail, giving the NPCs event to "latch on to".
magitsu wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 18:28 Maybe savegame data combined with the new camera feature could be combined to make a news announcer feed. :roll:
That could work. Personally I'd be very happy if the camera feed would purposely focus on activity. For instance, when a station's turrets are opening up and tracking a target, I want the feed to switch to that. While turrets are firing, I want to primarily see that. A station that's under construction could primarily show the segment that's being built. And so on. Basically, I'd like the feed to switch to the cool moments.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Skeeter »

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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Pesanur »

Can be dangerous, it can learn form the xenons lore and consider all organics a risk that need to be exterminated. :P
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Toshis8 »

Pesanur wrote: Sun, 2. Apr 23, 22:43 Can be dangerous, it can learn form the xenons lore and consider all organics a risk that need to be exterminated. :P
Or it could learn from Xenon, that conflict results in massive loses and setbacks, that coexistence could be a more prosperous way :) Anyway, knowing the vastness of space, there is probably nearly infinite amount of resources everywhere around us, enough for everyone.

A popular trope in science fiction is that, when AI becomes self aware, it immediately start conflict with humans. Why AI doesnt try to leave for another planet and peacefully develop there, instead of spending time and resources to fight humans?
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by VTJagatai »

Keep in mind that Egosoft is based in Germany and the EU. And there will likely be significant legal challenges to using ChatGpt in the future given how it builds its algorithms. Not saying that they shouldn't test it or consider it, but keep in mind anything they add in may need to be ripped back out.

Edit. Italy just banned ChatGpt for example.
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Re: Egosoft use chatgpt?

Post by Katorone »

There are nuances. If Egosoft's hypothetical chat-AI implementation doesn't collect personal data, it's fine.
The technology itself can't be banned, but implementations can.

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