[Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 2.2

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Hector0x
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hector0x » Wed, 8. Mar 23, 15:38

Joelnh wrote:
Wed, 8. Mar 23, 14:25
Is there a way to kick start the OCV?
certain settings in 'addon/t/9973-L044.xml' can boost them

Try these:

double OCV ship spawn rate:
<t id="20">50</t> <!-- general OCV construction cycle multiplier

faster invasions:
<t id="57">0</t> <!-- OCV and Xenon invader fleets extra waiting time between station kills.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Joelnh » Thu, 9. Mar 23, 12:54

Hector0x wrote:
Wed, 8. Mar 23, 15:38
Joelnh wrote:
Wed, 8. Mar 23, 14:25
Is there a way to kick start the OCV?
certain settings in 'addon/t/9973-L044.xml' can boost them

Try these:

double OCV ship spawn rate:
<t id="20">50</t> <!-- general OCV construction cycle multiplier

faster invasions:
<t id="57">0</t> <!-- OCV and Xenon invader fleets extra waiting time between station kills.
Thank you , I always forget that OCV settings can be tweaked as well since I never adjusted them before.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Ashakar » Tue, 14. Mar 23, 22:46

First off, I'd like to say thanks to Joubarbe and Hector0X for creating a really fun set of mods for X3. Its a shame X4 is missing all of these additions (such as all the fleet control options, which are super useful).

What program do ya'll use to modify/make all the scripts that you use? I tried using X-studio, but I end up getting a bunch of <Unrecognised Command> lines throughout some of the scripts, which prevent me from recompiling them. Is there an easy way to fix this, or do ya'll do all of your scripts mods using the in-game script editor?

What I'm really trying to do, is to figure out a way that I can implement an option to upgrade your outposts (which would take a huge amount of resources, say 100-200k of each of the main 6 resources), so that we can have two extra tiers of outposts (the first that gives 9 huge docks, using the "stations\others\argon_player_headquarter_scene", and then a final upgrade that uses the "stations\Cadius\USC\Headquarters_Scene" that gives you 18 huge docks. I can already incorporate those scenes into unused dock IDs in the Tdocks file, but the hard part for me at the moment is being able to go through all the scripts, create the new menus, and make all the edits necessary to not cause any bug issues (especially with the X-studio issues). I also envision that these upgrades could come with a few other potential boons (or malices), such as higher populations (or increased influx to support military operations), higher potential specialization levels, support for additional (or less) stations, or maybe even an additional production queue for ships/lasers. You could even add some of these options as perks that are only selectable once upgraded and we could choose how to allocate our "upgrade" perks once the upgrade is completed. Potential malices could include initial reductions in specialization levels (or resetting to 0), less trade and agent slots (as these are pure military complexes), less tax potential on population (we give tax breaks to military personnel), faction relation hits for bordering factions (Militarizing border zones makes people uncomfortable, and double the hit if you upgrade in a Dejure zone), along with taking your outpost production queues offline for the time of the upgrades (which could take hours/days, which you could define in a T-file).

I also think you could go the other way, and upgrade other outposts to be more like full fledged trading/market hubs instead of military industrial complexes, where you basically give up the Huge docks and the production queues, but could have increased numbers of general, trade, and mining agents assigned, potentially population bonuses and increased tax rates, and more station support slots (or maybe allows for upgraded stations with enhanced production outputs).

The other issue comes in allowing the AI to do these things. However, I'm not sure the AI would even be able to put the differences into play effectively.

At some point I'm also going to look into the research system to see what can be done to spice that up a little. Right now, its basically research a good fighter, then an M6, Then focus on getting a M1/2/7. There isn't much of an incentive to research multiple different types of the same class of ships right now.

right now I did just shortcut and replace the current outposts with the one with 9 huge docks, and it sure does make building and re-supplying a fleet with multiple huge ships much easier, especially a group of M7Ms.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Wed, 15. Mar 23, 16:09

Ashakar wrote:
Tue, 14. Mar 23, 22:46
I tried using X-studio, but I end up getting a bunch of <Unrecognised Command> lines throughout some of the scripts, which prevent me from recompiling them.

You must install the Custom.SyntaxV1.3.5 to use X-Studio for Mayhem 3. Put it in the root folder of X-studio. I don't remember where to find it.

I also think you could go the other way, and upgrade other outposts to be more like full fledged trading/market hubs instead of military industrial complexes, where you basically give up the Huge docks and the production queues, but could have increased numbers of general, trade, and mining agents assigned, potentially population bonuses and increased tax rates, and more station support slots (or maybe allows for upgraded stations with enhanced production outputs).

I believe there's options you can set in the 9972/9973 xml files for number of agents (company traders) and population growth and tax rates.

The other issue comes in allowing the AI to do these things. However, I'm not sure the AI would even be able to put the differences into play effectively.

At some point I'm also going to look into the research system.... There isn't much of an incentive to research multiple different types of the same class of ships right now.

I totally agree. Unfortunately it is a product of the unsavory practice of "balancing" ships, which IMO detracts from the uniqueness of each race. There should be vastly more of a rock-paper-scissors mentality when it comes to balancing ships across races, forcing you to adapt your ship building selection based on what the enemy is bringing, rather than based solely on price/performance. No one gets it.

right now I did just shortcut and replace the current outposts with the one with 9 huge docks, and it sure does make building and re-supplying a fleet with multiple huge ships much easier, especially a group of M7Ms.

Yea, I occasionally have the same problem.. Dock a couple M7's and next thing I know, my TL won't go home :) It's easy enough to work around, but yea, instead of just the little outposts, it would have been nice to also be able to build a large outpost similar to the old HQ's or something of that nature. Truthfully, a LOT of what made Mayhem 2 fun was removed when Mayhem 3 was created. Joubarbe added some very cool features, but he also nerfed a great many others that were incredibly fun for some of us. No more gambling. No more weapons platforms. No more being scanned by a cop in space for illegal cargo, hugely nerfed ship selection.. Some great things came from X3, but just because I grew a couple new arms doesn't mean I don't want my missing leg back.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Joelnh » Wed, 15. Mar 23, 20:17

Just found this link, didnt test the downloads....

http://litcubeswiki.rf.gd/luwiki/wiki/i ... nload.html

Can also try this :
http://web.archive.org/web/202008081852 ... p/Download

I have all the files saved from years ago and if needed can put online somewhere

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Joelnh » Thu, 16. Mar 23, 12:59

I am curious, does anyone know where Litcube went?
Hopefully he is ok and just not gaming right now.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Ashakar » Fri, 17. Mar 23, 20:37

Is there an easy way to turn off the constant "evasive maneuvers" for huge ships (M1/M2/M7). I can't stand that they don't sit still in a formation like all the smaller ships (M3/M6) and are way more prone to crashing into me than actually avoiding enemy fire.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Sun, 19. Mar 23, 18:36

Ashakar wrote:
Fri, 17. Mar 23, 20:37
Is there an easy way to turn off the constant "evasive maneuvers" for huge ships (M1/M2/M7). I can't stand that they don't sit still in a formation like all the smaller ships (M3/M6) and are way more prone to crashing into me than actually avoiding enemy fire.
Not sure entirely what circumstances or conditions you are referring to.

I can say however, that if you tell a capital ship to attack a station, it sort of tends to weave in and out in a most unproductive and dangerous manner that seems to have no value. I may be missing something, but that's what I've observed. One thing I change in the 9972-L044.xml (settings) file is ID#224. "No-main-turrets-ships VS Station tactics". I set this to a value of "1", which says "the ship makes a full stop". Seems to work much better for those caps.

I've also found that I'll lose capital ships quite regularly due to collisions into debris, or other ships when I'm in sector and frankly, it gets annoying. So what I do, is every time I build a capital ship, I'll go into the cheat menu and set that ship for "NO COLLISIONS". Unless I'm in one and expect it to jump through a gate (which it won't if you have collisions off), this setting seems to be a far better choice period. I may add this to the 'release' of things I'm making and giving to Hectorx for inclusion in his next major release. Not sure yet.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hector0x » Mon, 20. Mar 23, 07:46

Capships with only turrets and no main guns are supposed to 'circle' around big targets and fire broadsides.
Technically they select waypoints around a station. But the actual flight path vectors are not curved (like in X4).
So the ships are turning a lot. Their rotation rate is higher than vanilla to help a bit.

Problem with full stop alternate tactics (t-file) are blind spots where certain turrets cannot fire.

Problem with disabling collisions is that it also affects bullet impacts. So the ships become invulnerable during in-sector combat.

If a capship crashes with a station mayhem can detect this and create a copy. Maybe this can be extended to debris.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Mon, 20. Mar 23, 16:30

Why don't cap ships that have no main guns simply pull up and stop perpendicular to a target and start firing broadsides?
I don't see why they have to have any flight vectors around a station, as there's no advantage to hitting one side or the other and it only introduces collisions.

I can see that no-collisions may affect "bullets", and that might very well spoil the true outcome.
However, that's only bullets right? not beam weapons.. So it's not totally invulnerable. I've lost a LOT of M7's while in-system and never noticed a difference tbh, but it makes sense that there is a difference
so maybe it's not a "good" solution. I guess I'd still prefer a lame solution though, if it prevents caps from self-destructing on a station or frankly, each other.

Ultimately, other than stopping caps from circling stations, I'd agree that maybe there's something better that could be done in the collisions detection as you've said.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hector0x » Tue, 21. Mar 23, 06:10

Beams? From the laser pack? It is using outdated weapon stats and leads to frequent ship collisions.

You sure your ships took damage in system? Because for me Khaak beams were always affected by disabling collisions. Sounds more like the no collision flag got removed when you entered the sector.

Stopping ships in a fixed firing position had the problem that the strongest lasers didnt have good firing arcs most of the time. Doesn't seem like there is an universal angle which would work for all ships.

Fixed firing also had serious friendly fire issues.

The t-file has another alternative attack mode where the ship spins around itself but that looks stupid.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Joelnh » Fri, 24. Mar 23, 00:08

I have noticed debris collisions as well, happen frequently to miners. I have lost a station or two to cap ship collisions too. would increasing mining laser range possibly help the miners ?
maybe increasing laser range in general will help with many collision scenarios.
Maybe making debris further apart , or limit debris per sector.
just brain storming some ideas.
does debris possibly get created from large ship or station explosions ?

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Ashakar » Sat, 25. Mar 23, 00:48

I like to be the fleet commander of my Frontline fleet, and I find that if I have any other large ships in the fleet they will just randomly fly really super close to me, which of course ends up causing a collision at some point. Of course nothing ruins the fun as much as just randomly blowing up from a collision and you haven't saved for an hour.

It just seems that ships in a fleet don't seem to fly in any type of formation, no matter which one I pick. At some point I'll stop being lazy and start going through the scripts again to see if I can fix some of the things that annoy me.

The biggest thing I want though is an update from egosoft that allows turrets to have a targeting capability of greater than 10km. Turrets/guns can definitely shoot that far, if manually controlled, the aiming script command just won't work after 10km. I really want the cap ships shooting it out over 20-30km.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Fri, 31. Mar 23, 03:47

Ashakar wrote:
Sat, 25. Mar 23, 00:48
I like to be the fleet commander of my Frontline fleet, and I find that if I have any other large ships in the fleet they will just randomly fly really super close to me, which of course ends up causing a collision at some point. Of course nothing ruins the fun as much as just randomly blowing up from a collision and you haven't saved for an hour.
This is at least partially being addressed in the next release. It is possible, in the scenario you outline, to recreate the destroyed fleet ship in a slightly safer position, immediately after it blows up, provided it's not the ship YOU are in. So for example, if you are in a front-line carrier and one of your small support ships gets nailed by the bow of your ship as you turn, it can be automatically recovered. The X3 engine limits a perfect solution here, but some of it can be adjusted.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Fri, 31. Mar 23, 18:05

See updated post later.
Last edited by Hairless-Ape on Thu, 20. Apr 23, 23:58, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Riukus » Sat, 1. Apr 23, 13:58

Returning player here. Have some questions.

My situation is simple. I played Mayhem 2 a lot. Never play ZH or Mayhem 3. Want to play now.

So can I somehow enable jumpdrive in ZH? In t file maybe? Fleets without jumpdrive is the main reason why I rage quit my last X4 game, don't want to experience it again.

And also how carrier fleet perform in ZH? I love carriers in general and in Mayhem 2 they were nice.

Also can I enable LU bailing in ZH? I think it was possible in Mayhem 2. For some reason I love play with resources only from salvage. And using ships from boarding and claiming. It was hard but double.

And can I disable OCV? I played Mayhem 2 as strategy not as tower defense. It was really fun.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Sat, 1. Apr 23, 23:31

I think the Jump drive is disabled completely in Mayhem 3.
Only way I know of to get it is to either open the cheat menu and add it ship by ship, or to alter the code.
Note, there may be some code in there to auto-eject jump drives from ships in order to enforce the overlords will.. I'd have to dig.
I think Joubarbe thought the jump drive ruined the experience, although I have mixed feelings and would have loved it to be under a config switch. Why rip something out when you can make it configurable.

Carrier fleets should work about the same I believe. Perhaps some small changes, but you can still make a carrier fleet and order it around and fighters will land and repair etc. Although, If you're personally in the carrier, you may find it difficult to not run into your own support ships. It's still VERY wanky about support ships docking up at the worst possible times. I personally think the support fighter script is lacking and behaves weird. Carriers should stay back and let their fighters do the work and not rush boldly in with them to die, and fighters shouldn't dock up right in the middle of a brawl.

Mayhem 3 does have bailed ships which you can claim. There are a couple config switches that control their maximum number in the universe and per-system. I've never actually attacked some ship and seen it bail though, although perhaps that does happen. You see bailed ships across the universe and can setup a "tug" in your outpost to automatically grab any within range. The satellite monitoring system can show you how many bailed ships are present in each system you have a satellite in. For any outside the range of your outposts (8 jumps), you can just manually send a small ship to go capture it with the capture ship command.

I believe ZH enabled ship boarding with boarding pods only. It's not at all like boarding in Mayhem 2 where you could equip and train marines and have an outpost perk for marines, and use a transporter to stuff them into a target ship and then listen to that cool audio while they moved from level to level. For some reason, that was buggy I'm told, so they took all that out and now you just get boarding with pods. I've not done it though. Would be nice to see a video of that process as I'm very rusty. I hear it's quite powerful early game.

There are a number of switches in the 9973-L044.xml file that control aspects of OCV. Hectorx would have to elaborate on them. I have a hard time understanding the 'true' functioning of many of these switches.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Riukus » Sun, 2. Apr 23, 07:08

Thanks for the info! Honestly if it is possible to disable OCV I can tolerate disabled jumpdrive. Mostly because LU jumpgates have no belts on them. And I think teleportation between player ships existed, right?

But it is better to have jumpdrive, it saves so much time and gives the best epic sci-fi feeling then your capitals jump to you and start firing. Also I don't like to lose big ships in X games or important units in other games, so it will be painful to play without emergency jump. I hope carriers will help me with that.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Riukus » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 01:01

Hairless-Ape wrote:
Sat, 1. Apr 23, 23:31
There are a number of switches in the 9973-L044.xml file that control aspects of OCV. Hectorx would have to elaborate on them. I have a hard time understanding the 'true' functioning of many of these switches.
I start the ZH game, but I didn't find any OCV related switches in ZH or Mayhem config files exept scaling. It not disabling. It was there in Mayhem 2. So if I will have hard time with game pace, I think I will switch to Mayhem 2 from ZH.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Mon, 3. Apr 23, 02:11

If you want a quick 'hack' to completely disable the OCV fleet leaders, and thus stop their invasions, you can just grab this file I made for you.
It's just a crude hack that effectively cripples the OCV invasion leaders, so that they won't go anywhere. It won't mess with any other aspects of the OCV.
Hector0x would need to make a 'good' way of doing this if he wants it in the release, but if all you're worried about is the OCV running around killing stuff, you can try this.

Put this in your \Mayhem 3\Addon\Scripts\ folder.
OCV Hack
Last edited by Hairless-Ape on Mon, 3. Apr 23, 06:53, edited 1 time in total.
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