[4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

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adeine
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[4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by adeine » Thu, 29. Apr 21, 23:05

Past threads I could find for reference: 1, 2, 3

I'm aware this is a recurring issue, but it seems to have got worse with 4.0. When there is a list of wares to be mined, miners seem to be obsessed with filling up storage for the first(?) ware in the list while actively ignoring actual supply shortages. It's possible to manually change the mining command to the proper resource, but after one run management changes it back to the ware(s) already full to the brim.

In past versions (~3.0) similar issues tended to sort themselves out over time (typically when the ware in question reached saturation, miners would switch to mining the other resources), but this doesn't appear to be working properly any longer, perhaps due to how resource probes change mining priorities(?).

Example save attached here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hqUvfM ... sp=sharing

The Complex Material Fabs in both Jupiter and Silent Witness are unable to function as intended because their miners exclusively mine ore, even though there is access to silicon within range (with resource probes as well). It's possible to kind of work around this by doing the warehouse approach (have a station that only requires one of each resource type and have it ferry the wares over; see what's happening with methane in Silent Witness, where I could set the wharf to supply it to the production complexes because it has the same issue as ore/silicon - compare the unassisted complex in Jupiter) but it's messy and really shouldn't be necessary.

Shepp
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Shepp » Sat, 1. May 21, 00:52

From what I've seen the game acts a little wonky when you let it auto-manage the storage for resources. It tends to favor mining the one with the highest consumption rate. Try calculating the hourly consumption for each resource used. Then manually set teach for that number. The AI tends to do far better with prioritizing and your station will want less of a budget to operate.

adeine
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by adeine » Sat, 1. May 21, 06:18

That's kind of how it used to be, where miners could overly focus on a resource until the overly generous allocation is filled up. They'd then still mine other resources once this happens and the issue would sort itself out.

What's happening here with 4.0+ is that miners will keep obsessively prioritising the same resource even though assigned storage is already filled to 100%.

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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Shepp » Sat, 1. May 21, 15:08

I'm not saying that Egosoft couldn't improve the way managers procure resources. For me at least, this a serviceable work around. I tried it with your save game and the stations immediately began mining silicon. The station in Silent Witness was desperately low on ice too. I didn't mess around with it long enough, but my guess is that it would go for ice after filling the silicon. You may need to add a couple more mineral miners to keep up.

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antagonist
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by antagonist » Mon, 3. May 21, 22:12

Let me tell you how broken miners are right now:

I built a station and assigned it a number of gas miners. Those habitually return to the station with their holds partially filled with methane.
Spoiler
Show
Plot twist: my station only needs hydrogen.
Excuse me what the ****.
"Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire."
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Vanarion
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Vanarion » Sat, 15. May 21, 17:57

I experience the same problem.
Station miners just go pretty much for just one resource, even if the stations storage is full of it, while other needed resurces wont be mined at all, even if the respective storage is empty.
I just returned to X4 for the new content.
Well my experience - sorry I have to say it - is typical for this franchise. I should have waited at least half a year after release of "Cradle of humanity" to spare me the disappointment.

I just want stuff to work. Is that to much to ask for?

So .. I vented. It was necessary...

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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Falcrack » Sun, 23. May 21, 04:02

I had a game where everything was going fine at my 2X computronic substrate 2X metallic microlattice 2X silicon carbide station in Earth. I had 2 Large mineral miners, 9 medium mineral miners, 7 medium gas miners, and 18 small mineral miners. The station had a 5 star manager, and up to a certain point, the mineral miners had been efficiently splitting their efforts between mostly ore and silicon, with a little bit of ice on occasion to support the 1X protein paste, 3X medical supplies, and 2X Terran MRE. It was all going nicely, then all of a sudden, without any changes from me, they stopped getting ore. Just all silicon, all the time. I removed all their assignements and reassigned them, but that did not help. I assigned the station manager to a ship, then reassigned him as manager, and that did not fix it either.

Please, Egosoft, if you have a fix for this, release it! Please do not wait for 4.1 with the release of ventures. This is in too dire of a need of an immediate fix. I know there are workarounds for now, but it really needs an official fix to make them work the way they ought to.

exogenesis
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by exogenesis » Sun, 23. May 21, 11:02

One (the?) major problem with stations with multi-mineral (or gas) requirements, as others had said elsewhere,
particularly if there's a lot of miners assigned,
is when the miners switch between minerals, they don't/can't empty their holds of excess ware(s).

Thankfully, I think at any given time, miners only actively mine one ware (judging from their orders info-page),
even though over time they will switch between wares, as the station maager commands.

While miners are getting say silicon to fill the station, they fill with silicon (obviously),
& at some point the station is full, but so is half (or more) of the miners' holds, since they always 'over-mine'.

Then they switch to ore, but can only deliver at severely reduced rates, since they can't fit much ore in.

If you've got a big station with many miners,
that needs both minerals (ore & silicon) + all 3 gasses (helium, hydrogen & methane),
the situation can become pretty dire quite quickly.

You get to the point where miners capable of 1000's only deliver 10's of ware units,
so the station starves.

One solution I guess would be for miners to automatically empty their holds of everything (drop wares),
when they (are told to) switch between mineral (/gas) ?


I assume that shouldn't be too much of a problem/loss,
since presumably the station now has lots of the mineral/gas being switched away from.
This is assuming of course that miners do only target one ware at a time...

exogenesis
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by exogenesis » Sun, 23. May 21, 11:17

And of course the natural reaction is to add more miners to try & compensate,
which actually tends to make the situation worse!

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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by exogenesis » Sun, 23. May 21, 14:12

Can't believe I forgot to include ice as a mineral in all this.
Got to go on about this since it's causing me/us so much trouble (excess mining ships & delivery-time taken).

An example of a 'blocked' miner's hold, this L-miner is trying to supply silicon to the station,
but only has space for 12 of 3840, due to being 'bunged up' with ice & ore from previous mining activities :

Image

Knallfrosch
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Knallfrosch » Fri, 11. Jun 21, 19:45

Same Problem here. I tried to down-prioritize the abundant resource (buy option below actual capacity) emptied the Holds of the clogged gatherers. it seems to work for a short time, but they return with the abundant resource again soon. And then they hover above the station, waiting to dorp it off in tiny amounts...while the other resources run dry.
For some reason, this does not happen at every station. Some stations run fine with all resources suppied equally... on other stations only one resource is prioritised.

Such a shame, that you can not modify the gatherers supply list. That would help a lot. :!:

Knallfrosch
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Knallfrosch » Fri, 11. Jun 21, 22:56

Update:
I set the abundant resource to minimum (in my case Hydrogen) and emptied all hydrogen from the miners cargoholds... now they only gather helium and methane... i wonder how long this will last. :lol:

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alessandrofavero
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by alessandrofavero » Sat, 12. Jun 21, 09:48

Sorry, I do not follow the English forum as I have difficulty with English. I have seen that there are many posts dealing with this topic. but I don't think I've ever come across a reply from @Dev or @Egosoft .... what do they say about it? it would seem clear to me that it is a Bug but have they confirmed it?
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Bawlislaf
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by Bawlislaf » Sat, 12. Jun 21, 11:25

IIRC they've got a fix coming with the next build.

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alessandrofavero
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Re: [4.0 HF3] Miners don't prioritise resources correctly

Post by alessandrofavero » Sat, 12. Jun 21, 11:33

Bawlislaf wrote:
Sat, 12. Jun 21, 11:25
IIRC they've got a fix coming with the next build.
Ok, ty
Ci sono 10 tipi di persone, chi capisce il codice binario e chi non lo capisce!!!
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