Trump

[mr.WHO]

Kids in cages, ring a bell? Forced hysterectomies, extra judicial killings, attacks on US citizens, I could go on.

I haven't heard about hysterectomies, but everything else was started or continued by Obama, so by the same logic he's Hitler too - given our discusion in Biden topic I'd be more keen to agree on that.
If you continue to trivialize, then you get to the point where basically anyone has anything in common with Hitler and is secret nazi.
I'm quite sure Hitler at some point in his life said that grass is green and sky is blue - should we pretent it's not or be accused of being a secret nazi?
Because it's already like that for many Twitter nutjobs throwing nazi/fashist tag left, right and center.

Untill 14th of December it is Trump right to try and expire every legal option. And even if there is one legal option that allow him to claim victory via trick, I'm more confident than not that Congress will not be on his side. With it I don't see how Military could end on his side even if he would magically swich all generals and admirals - this makes him nothing like Hitler and makes this comparison rudiculous.

[Vertigo 7]

Kids in cages, ring a bell? Forced hysterectomies, extra judicial killings, attacks on US citizens, I could go on.

I haven't heard about hysterectomies, but everything else was started or continued by Obama, so by the same logic he's Hitler too - given our discusion in Biden topic I'd be more keen to agree on that.
If you continue to trivialize, then you get to the point where basically anyone has anything in common with Hitler and is secret nazi.
I'm quite sure Hitler at some point in his life said that grass is green and sky is blue - should we pretent it's not or be accused of being a secret nazi?
Because it's already like that for many Twitter nutjobs throwing nazi/fashist tag left, right and center.

Untill 14th of December it is Trump right to try and expire every legal option. And even if there is one legal option that allow him to claim victory via trick, I'm more confident than not that Congress will not be on his side. With it I don't see how Military could end on his side even if he would magically swich all generals and admirals - this makes him nothing like Hitler and makes this comparison rudiculous.

Oh BS, don't even. Obama never ordered the mistreatment of immigrants. You don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting crap from Trump's twitter feed.

[mr.WHO]

Oh BS, don't even. Obama never ordered the mistreatment of immigrants. You don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting crap from Trump's twitter feed.

You know that famous photo of children cages was done during Obama administration?
Or that Obama was called deporter-in-chief?
Or that he was the first world leader who developed a tasted in drone-striking the shit out of 3rd world countries?

If you point these on Trump you also need to point it on Obama - there is no way around it.

[Vertigo 7]

Oh BS, don't even. Obama never ordered the mistreatment of immigrants. You don't know what you're talking about. You're just parroting crap from Trump's twitter feed.

You know that famous photo of children cages was done during Obama administration?
Or that Obama was called deporter-in-chief?
Or that he was the first world leader who developed a tasted in drone-striking the shit out of 3rd world countries?

If you point these on Trump you also need to point it on Obama - there is no way around it.

Yeaaahhh no it wasn't. Stay off Breitbart. It rots your brain.

Look, I get that you don't like black people so it's easy for you to blame Obama for all of Trump's cruelty, but that bears no semblance to reality.

[mr.WHO]

Look, I get that you don't like black people so it's easy for you to blame Obama for all of Trump's cruelty, but that bears no semblance to reality.

Stop throwing the color of the skin to the discussion - it has nothing to do with it.
Obama is guilty of continuing many dirty things from Bush Adminsitration and so is Trump.
Obama ran on "CHANGE" from Bush administration and I was actually happy after all the crap of Bush. Still he end up full of shit and, so is Trump.
I'm quite sure we'll be having the same discussion on Biden in 4 years.

[Vertigo 7]

Look, I get that you don't like black people so it's easy for you to blame Obama for all of Trump's cruelty, but that bears no semblance to reality.

Stop throwing the color of the skin to the discussion - it has nothing to do with it.
Obama is guilty of continuing many dirty things from Bush Adminsitration and so is Trump.
Obama ran on "CHANGE" from Bush administration and I was actually happy after all the crap of Bush. Still he end up full of shit and, so is Trump.
I'm quite sure we'll be having the same discussion on Biden in 4 years.

I don't even know why you're pissed off at Obama. You ever lived in the states? Did he do anything to you? He did an awful lot for us, but you just wanna parrot Trump's BS like it's fact or something. Are you mad that "Fort Trump" didn't happen? What is it?

[mr.WHO]

I don't even know why you're pissed off at Obama. You ever lived in the states? Did he do anything to you? He did an awful lot for us, but you just wanna parrot Trump's BS like it's fact or something. Are you mad that "Fort Trump" didn't happen? What is it?

I'm not pissed, but it's as silly to treat Obama as a Second coming of Jesus (and some people treat Trump the same). Lets be honest, both are full of crap, but are treated like holy by their side.
Obama was first black Presiden, yet somehow America become more racist when he end his last term (and he was elected by many black, white and latino voters).
He got Peace noble price, yet be bombed the shit out of many countries without even war declaration.
He promised to end war in Iraq and Afganistan, yet he fueled Arab spring and war in Syria that killed milion and displaced many milions.
Not to mention that he promised to finalized war on terror yet somehow ISIS appeared and grew to the peak during his administration.

One thing he did somewhat good is medical reform and the fact that Trump didn't managed to revert proves it.

Many of these failures are continued by Trump till today - this makes Trump also a failure, so you can't honestly claim Obama was anything better or worse than Trump. Both were full of shit media persona that are glorified too much by their political spectrum.



In regards to "Fort Trump":
- Trump moved a few thousand soldiers to Poland
- Obama was first two build pernament missile defence base in Poland
- Poland enterd NATO during Bush Jr. (probably will his little to none involvement)
- Poland was acceptend to join prepared to enter during Clinton.

That's rather consistent chain and good sign for future Biden administration.

I fully agree with Trump that Europe leech on USA military - thus he had positive impact on at least some NATO countries military spending, Poland included. He's an asshole, but he has a point. Just for that he would deserve to have base named "Fort Trump". Americans often complain that they have "go and save Europe again". Yet Trump approach push Europe to actually be capable of saving itself - there was never so many discussion about making EU army before Trump.
Aparently many analyst say Biden will continue this policy, which I welcome. This also somehow prove that Trump approch towards Europe was correct.

[Vertigo 7]

I don't even know why you're pissed off at Obama. You ever lived in the states? Did he do anything to you? He did an awful lot for us, but you just wanna parrot Trump's BS like it's fact or something. Are you mad that "Fort Trump" didn't happen? What is it?

I'm not pissed, but it's as silly to treat Obama as a Second coming of Jesus, as some people treat Trump. Lets be honest, both are full of crap, but are treated like holy by their side.
Obama was first black Presiden, yet somehow America become more racist when he end his last term than when he started (and he was elected by many black, white and latino voters).
He got Peace noble price yet be bombed the shit out of many countries without even war declaration.
He promised to end war in Iraq and Afganistan, yet he fueled Arab spring and war in Syria that killed milion and displaced many milions.
Not to mention that he promised to finalized war on terror yet somehow ISIS appeared and grew to the peak during his administration.

One thing he did somewhat good is medical reform and the fact that Trump didn't managed to revert proves it.

Many of these failures are continued by Trump till today - this makes Trump also a failure, so you can't honestly claim Obama was anything better or worse than Trump. Both were full of shit media persona that are glorified too much by their political spectrum.

That may be how things appear over in your little corner of the world, but here, in the US, it's night and day. I can honestly say Obama was a million times better than Trump. And I never said he was a second coming or have hailed him as such. I have a laundry list of issues with him and Biden both, but they pail in comparison to the advances he made on healthcare, the economy, climate change, and civil rights. All 4 of which have been an utter disaster under Trump.

Conversely, I have given Trump his due for combatting the opioid issue. That is the one and only thing I have given him credit for and even on that, he should have done more. And I suspect, and I have no proof, the only reason he even half ass did anything about that was because Don Jr. had been caught snorting pills.

Trump's presidency has been little more than a con to expand, or repair, his own personal wealth. Claims to the contrary, he's done absolutely nothing for middle and lower class Americans.

In regards to "Fort Trump" - Trump moved a few thousand soldiers to Poland, but Obama was first two build pernament missile defence base in Poland, Poland enterd NATO during Bush and was prepared to enter during Clinton. That's rather consistent chain and good sign for future Biden administration.
I fully agree with Trump that Europe leech on USA military - thus he had positive impact on at least some NATO countries military spending, Poland included. He's an asshole, but he has a point. Just for that he would deserve to have base named "Fort Trump". Americans often complain that they have "go and save Europe again". Yet Trump approach push Europe to actually be capable of saving itself - there was never so many discussion about making EU army before Trump. Aparently many analyst say Biden will continue this policy, which I welcome.

Where have you heard Americans complaining that they have to "go and save Europe again"? I never heard that when I served. Hell, when was the last time the US fought in Europe? We've complained about fighting in the middle east, because that's where we've been fighting.

Maybe you saw some different discussions taking place but I remember him doing nothing but insulting our NATO allies and our own intelligence services while he was cozying up to Putin and taking him at his word over all others.

[mr.WHO]

That may be how things appear over in your little corner of the world, but here, in the US, it's night and day. I can honestly say Obama was a million times better than Trump. And I never said he was a second coming or have hailed him as such. I have a laundry list of issues with him and Biden both, but they pail in comparison to the advances he made on healthcare, the economy, climate change, and civil rights. All 4 of which have been an utter disaster under Trump.

Conversely, I have given Trump his due for combatting the opioid issue. That is the one and only thing I have given him credit for and even on that, he should have done more. And I suspect, and I have no proof, the only reason he even half ass did anything about that was because Don Jr. had been caught snorting pills.

Trump's presidency has been little more than a con to expand, or repair, his own personal wealth. Claims to the contrary, he's done absolutely nothing for middle and lower class Americans.

I honestly don't see much difference between Obama and Trump, both had some success and failures. Both have been much more fake media persona build around them than what they are in reality.

You can basically make a placeholder form to poll people:

"Trump/Obama is competent leader unlike Obama/Trump who is Communist/Fascist sellout who ruinded America and make it more racist place".

The fact that there is nothing in between those two opinions will end badly for USA and for the world (also you can find local Obama/Trump in almost every single country)

Where have you heard Americans complaining that they have to "go and save Europe again"? I never heard that when I served. Hell, when was the last time the US fought in Europe? We've complained about fighting in the middle east, because that's where we've been fighting.

Maybe you saw some different discussions taking place but I remember him doing nothing but insulting our NATO allies and our own intelligence services while he was cozying up to Putin and taking him at his word over all others.

1) I remember Americans rub Europe in the face for 2 World Wars frequently before 9/11. Obama wanted to retract troops from Europe which stay here for 50+ years (which I assume probably cost as much as nearly 20 years of stay in Iraq).

2) Sometimes insults are needed becasue seriosly NATO armies were falling apart - Britan untill this year had no Aircraft Carriers, France and Italy ran out of missiles during short intervention in Lybia and Poland has more MBT than Germany, France and Britain combined (and Britain wanted to decomission of all their tanks). I think it was two years ago when German Defence ministry warned they have nearly no combat ready aircraft and half land vechicles are down due to shortage of spare parts. Seriously European armies were in such poor state that Trumps' slap in the face was badly needed. Now it seems European armies are in slow recover which will be beneficial for both Europe and USA. I really hope Biden will keep this up otherwise everyone will "go back to normal" ("lets leech on US troops, no need to spend our own money").

[Vertigo 7]

That may be how things appear over in your little corner of the world, but here, in the US, it's night and day. I can honestly say Obama was a million times better than Trump. And I never said he was a second coming or have hailed him as such. I have a laundry list of issues with him and Biden both, but they pail in comparison to the advances he made on healthcare, the economy, climate change, and civil rights. All 4 of which have been an utter disaster under Trump.

Conversely, I have given Trump his due for combatting the opioid issue. That is the one and only thing I have given him credit for and even on that, he should have done more. And I suspect, and I have no proof, the only reason he even half ass did anything about that was because Don Jr. had been caught snorting pills.

Trump's presidency has been little more than a con to expand, or repair, his own personal wealth. Claims to the contrary, he's done absolutely nothing for middle and lower class Americans.

I honestly don't see much difference between Obama and Trump, both had some success and failures. Both have been much more fake media persona build around them than what they are in reality.

You can basically make a placeholder form to poll people:

"Trump/Obama is competent leader unlike Obama/Trump who is Communist/Fascist sellout who ruinded America and make it more racist place".

The fact that there is nothing in between those two opinions will end badly for USA and for the world (also you can find local Obama/Trump in almost every single country)

Well if you can't tell the difference between the two, then I feel sorry for you.

Where have you heard Americans complaining that they have to "go and save Europe again"? I never heard that when I served. Hell, when was the last time the US fought in Europe? We've complained about fighting in the middle east, because that's where we've been fighting.

Maybe you saw some different discussions taking place but I remember him doing nothing but insulting our NATO allies and our own intelligence services while he was cozying up to Putin and taking him at his word over all others.

1) I remember Americans rub Europe in the face for 2 World Wars frequently before 9/11. Obama wanted to retract troops from Europe which stay here for 50+ years (which I assume probably cost as much as nearly 20 years of stay in Iraq).

2) Sometimes insults are needed becasue seriosly NATO armies were falling apart - Britan untill this year had no Aircraft Carriers, France and Italy ran out of missiles during short intervention in Lybia and Poland has more MBT than Germany, France and Britain combined (and Britain was thiking about decomission of all tanks). I think it was two years ago where German Defence ministry warned they have nearly no combat ready aircraft and half land vechicles are down due to shortage of spare parts. Seriously European armies were in such poor state that Trumps' slap in the face was badly needed. Now it seems European armies are in slow recover which will be beneficial for both Europe and USA. I really hope Biden will keep this up otherwise everyone will "go back to normal" ("lets leech on US troops, no need to spend our own money").

Okay, lets pretend for a moment that Trump's insults to our allies weren't a nod and a wink to Putin and other dictators around the globe. Given his decisions to give North Korea, China, Russia, Al-Qaida, and that Saudi Prince whoseit that ordered the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi preferential treatment, his motives appear a bit suspect to quite a lot of people around the world.

[RegisterMe]

mr.Who seems to me you're cherry picking what you consider to be similarities (even if they're not) between the foreign policies of Trump and Obama. But you're not mentioning many other significant differences eg:-

* Trump doing his best to wreck the WTO (compare and contrast with Obama)
* Trump pulling out of the Iran non-proliferation deal (compare and contrast with Obama)
* Turmp pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord (Obama basically made it happen)
* Trump actively undermining NATO (whereas Obama, realistically, started a "pivot" towards Asia-Pac)
* Trump pulling out of trade deals eg NAFTA / TPP
* Trump slapping tariffs on everybody left right and centre
* Trump pulling the US out of the WHO (compare and contrast Obama funding for CDC epidemic monitoring and prevention)
* Even if Obama's commitment to sorting out the mess in the Middle East (most recently actively contributed to by the US) at least he never unilaterally pulled forces out without consulting his allies and throwing the Kurds under a bus whilst he was at it
* Likewise with moving the American embassy to Jerusalem and various other steps to normalise the situation between Israel and Palestine (though I grant you Trump deserves some credit for the normalisation of relations between the UAE, I think it is, and Israel).

[Mightysword]

2) Sometimes insults are needed becasue seriosly NATO armies were falling apart - Britan untill this year had no Aircraft Carriers, France and Italy ran out of missiles during short intervention in Lybia and Poland has more MBT than Germany, France and Britain combined (and Britain wanted to decomission of all their tanks). I think it was two years ago when German Defence ministry warned they have nearly no combat ready aircraft and half land vechicles are down due to shortage of spare parts. Seriously European armies were in such poor state that Trumps' slap in the face was badly needed. Now it seems European armies are in slow recover which will be beneficial for both Europe and USA. I really hope Biden will keep this up otherwise everyone will "go back to normal" ("lets leech on US troops, no need to spend our own money").

I think most people in the US only look at this issue on the political side while not being aware of the reality/practical side of it. I had regularly come across Europeans that make fun of the state of their army. At first I thought it's just an internet thing, and people making meme or being over dramatic, so in a few instance I did a little dig around for some reports/audits on the military of NATO's nation and ... they were mostly even worse than the memes. And I don't mean that by just some # like % of GDP that often come up in these arguments. But things like you said: the readiness of the army, state of equipment, inventory for spare parts ...etc...

I do recall a few European on here made fun of their military in this tread a couple years ago when the issue was brought up.

I'm not sure if Bill Clinton said it ( I wasn't in the US then), but I know Bush and Obama said it. So to that end I don't think Trump really can take credit for that, he's basically repeating the same things his two predecessors had said ... just with a lot less tack. I think Crimea is probably main trigger for it. I'm no military expert so this is just my own take, but I think for a long time Europe got complacent in thinking the "Nuclear Deterrent" means a guarantor of no conflict with Russia ever happens. They probably realize they need to have a soft-deterrence as well without relying on the big red button, something their current state of military do no favor of.

[Vertigo 7]

* Even if Obama's commitment to sorting out the mess in the Middle East (most recently actively contributed to by the US) at least he never unilaterally pulled forces out without consulting his allies and throwing the Kurds under a bus whilst he was at it
* Likewise with moving the American embassy to Jerusalem and various other steps to normalise the situation between Israel and Palestine (though I grant you Trump deserves some credit for the normalisation of relations between the UAE, I think it is, and Israel).

Didn't Trump put that slum lord Kushner in charge of sorting out the Middle East? How'd that work out for em?

[Alan Phipps]

@ mr.WHO: Just a small comment about European military equipment and capabilities and why the perceived problem is largely independent of US Presidential elections.

Low combat projection levels are not necessarily due to lack of will or commitment by the individual European nations but more reflect the terribly inflated costs passed on by high tech capability Defence/Defense Contractors, of which many of those involved in European armaments development and support are based in the USA. Even where that may not apply to the main weapon platform, in many cases it still applies to some extent to the fitted technology being supplied directly or modified/built locally under licence from the USA.

Example case in point: UK's Apache Attack Helicopters.

I don't think Trump or Biden in power would have much effect on that ongoing state of affairs.

[Vertigo 7]

@ mr.WHO: Just a small comment about European military equipment and capabilities and why the perceived problem is largely independent of US Presidential elections.

Low combat projection levels are not necessarily due to lack of will or commitment by the individual European nations but more reflect the terribly inflated costs passed on by high tech capability Defence/Defense Contractors, of which many of those involved in European armaments development and support are based in the USA. Even where that may not apply to the main weapon platform, in many cases it still applies to some extent to the fitted technology being supplied directly or modified/built locally under licence from the USA.

Example case in point: UK's Apache Attack Helicopters.

I don't think Trump or Biden in power would have much effect on that ongoing state of affairs.

This is very true and not just limited to Europe. We've been selling and licensing military equipment to all of our allies for decades. It was a shock to me to see the same advanced radar and weapon systems on Japanese destroyers that we have back in 2002, not a clone. It wasn't until I asked around that I found out that our European and Asian allies have the same equipment and utilize the same FOTC/COP systems. This has benefited all involved to run joint operations.

[mr.WHO]

@ mr.WHO: Just a small comment about European military equipment and capabilities and why the perceived problem is largely independent of US Presidential elections.

Low combat projection levels are not necessarily due to lack of will or commitment by the individual European nations but more reflect the terribly inflated costs passed on by high tech capability Defence/Defense Contractors, of which many of those involved in European armaments development and support are based in the USA. Even where that may not apply to the main weapon platform, in many cases it still applies to some extent to the fitted technology being supplied directly or modified/built locally under licence from the USA.

Example case in point: UK's Apache Attack Helicopters.

I don't think Trump or Biden in power would have much effect on that ongoing state of affairs.

Doesn't matter what are the costs if many NATO member doesn't spent declared 2% defence spending. This coudl be good excuse if they get to 2% and don't want to spend beyond that, yet German is spending like 1,25% and I think they declare that they will spend 2%...in 2030.

I fully understand Trump point of view - just like Europe leech on US military spending the same we can say that Germany leech on Polish military spendings (we spend 2% and want to spend 2.5% by 2025).
Seriously how you expect Trump to keep his end of the deal if most of Europe was actively not keeping their end of the deal for decades?
In his shoes I would be the dick too.

mr.Who seems to me you're cherry picking what you consider to be similarities (even if they're not) between the foreign policies of Trump and Obama. But you're not mentioning many other significant differences eg:-

1* Trump doing his best to wreck the WTO (compare and contrast with Obama)
2* Trump pulling out of the Iran non-proliferation deal (compare and contrast with Obama)
3* Turmp pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord (Obama basically made it happen)
4* Trump actively undermining NATO (whereas Obama, realistically, started a "pivot" towards Asia-Pac)
5* Trump pulling out of trade deals eg NAFTA / TPP
6* Trump slapping tariffs on everybody left right and centre
7* Trump pulling the US out of the WHO (compare and contrast Obama funding for CDC epidemic monitoring and prevention)
8* Even if Obama's commitment to sorting out the mess in the Middle East (most recently actively contributed to by the US) at least he never unilaterally pulled forces out without consulting his allies and throwing the Kurds under a bus whilst he was at it
9* Likewise with moving the American embassy to Jerusalem and various other steps to normalise the situation between Israel and Palestine (though I grant you Trump deserves some credit for the normalisation of relations between the UAE, I think it is, and Israel).

1 - how is that one day most people rag on WTO as imperialist tool of America and then the day Trump say it's bad everyone suddenly are in love with WTO?
2 - yes, this was ****** move, I never claimed Trump is perfect is all regards.
3 - This would never work untill China and India continue to pollute the world. You simply export pollution and capital from West to East. However recently there seems to be turn in China environmental policy, which actually could make it work. This isn't Trump/Obama dependent, but rather China.
4 - re-pivoting is the same in the end as undermining, just pretty word vs harsh word (fits well for Obama vs Trump).
5 - but he replaced it with deal more favorable to US - this might be bad if you're Mexico/Canada, but good if oyu're US.
6 - tarrifs is perfectly fine tool if everyone else use price dumping - see point 3 on China not abiding with enviromental standards and therefore having more attractive production prices. If everyone would stick to same standards, then tarrifs would nto be needed (like internal EU market).
7 - WHO kinda f*cked up at the begining, but yes, pulling from WHO is overreaction (given how pretty much all the rest of the world ****** up several months later). Minus point for Trump, because assholes have problems with admitting the mistakes.
8 - it was ****** towards Kurds and as a Pole I really relate to them (partition between 3 neighbours), but also as I Pole I kinda already knew that Kurds are on their own and will be betrayed and sold at first ocassion. It's not Trump, it's Western political standards 101 ever since Ancient Rome or Greece.
9 - same with Palestine - the more I read about Palestinian occupied territories the more I see them like light version of "German occupied Poland during WW2". It hits harded when you know that Israel was founded in response to what Germans did.

Okay, lets pretend for a moment that Trump's insults to our allies weren't a nod and a wink to Putin and other dictators around the globe. Given his decisions to give North Korea, China, Russia, Al-Qaida, and that Saudi Prince whoseit that ordered the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi preferential treatment, his motives appear a bit suspect to quite a lot of people around the world.

No one hide the fact that Trump tried to appease Putin at the begining - that was main concer of many politicians in Poland when he took the office. Then Putin start the rumble in the Ukraine and USA was first who sent help to Ukraine and enhanced NATO flank in Poland and baltic states. He's not first western politician who try to flirt with Putin - hell, half of EU leaders and businessmen still flirt with him to this day to Polands' concern.

Same is with North Korea - he first try to appease him then he enters into dick measure contest on twitter calling him "little rocket man".
Same with China (which BTW is in bed with also plenty of Democrats, Republican and other politicians all over Europe, Australia, Canada - all over the world).
The only odd thing is Saudi Arabia, which is really distasteful (but also same with all previous administrations), but at least Trump was open that this is only due to money from business deals between US-SA. The only way to cut ties with SA would be US oil fracking that would make US independent form Saudi oil (no I don't belive in Green New Deal, at least not anytime soon with current tech, maybe 20-30 years in future).

Honestly I will be suprise if Biden will be anything different.
Will be break ties with SA? WIll he call out concentration camps in China? What will he do with Kim? Will be broke a lasting peace deal in Ukraine (I'm personally interested and my home town is near Polish-Ukrainian border and we have 2 mil Ukrainians who ran away).

We will see in a few months on Biden topic and I'm ready to eat my words if Biden will be anything better than Trump.

P.S. Lets not forget several Israel-Arab peace deals from last weeks - wonder if it last during Biden administration?

[Tamina]

While the US sees Russia and China as their mortal enemies, some countries in the EU don't. You don't need a military if you don't want or have to go to war. An arms race already led to WWI. If at all you want to slow that down as much as possible and at best dearm the countries, but guess what happened in the last few years with those treaties!

3 - This would never work untill China and India continue to pollute the world. You simply export pollution and capital from West to East. However recently there seems to be turn in China environmental policy, which actually could make it work. This isn't Trump/Obama dependent, but rather China.

No they don't. Trumps trade war with China and breaking all negoatiations with Asian countries for a trade zone with the US - involving environmental laws and regulations, as well as Human Rights - led to China building an Asian trade agreement by themselfes, without any Human Rights or environmental laws. In fact, China pressured the other countries to drop all that. And his "bull in a china store" attitudes on top of that are just coffin nails to future diplomatic negotiations.

He has shown that the US is an unreliable global partner.

[Vertigo 7]

Not only that, how's all of his middle east peace planning gonna go if he gets his way and bombs Iran on his way out the door? There's at least some adults there talking him out of it, but Trump is still on a firing spree so who knows.

He has shown that the US is an unreliable global partner.

This is something I sincerely hope Biden takes steps on repairing. We benefit from a stronger global economy just as much as our trade partners do and there has been at least a consensus from past presidents on that.

[RegisterMe]

@mr.Who

1. I've never seen that behaviour to be honest. Anybody who describes the WTO as an "imperialist tool of America" doesn't know what they're talking about.
3. Yeah, in the broad scale of things I think some scepticism is in order here, however Obama, literally, took (rightly) personal credit for getting China to sign up. That's no small thing. He did it. Nobody else.
4. I disagree.
5. No. He did not. The fact that he says he did is irrelevant.
6. Sorry, that's... somewhere between over simplistic and outright wrong. It just doesn't fly. I'm tired, and god knows I've written enough long posts on this forum about economics down the years. Still, if you're interested, and if I have the time / energy I can go into it in more detail (tomorrow though).
7. The WHO is a mess. But in large part that is down to the US (refusing to appoint new judges to adjudicate decisions so making it not quorum). Is the best way to deal with it to take your ball and walk away sulking, or to sit down, role your sleaves up, and get stuck in trying to fix it?

[mr.WHO]

While the US sees Russia and China as their mortal enemies, some countries in the EU don't. You don't need a military if you don't want or have to go to war. An arms race already led to WWI. If at all you want to slow that down as much as possible and at best dearm the countries, but guess what happened in the last few years with those treaties!

3 - This would never work untill China and India continue to pollute the world. You simply export pollution and capital from West to East. However recently there seems to be turn in China environmental policy, which actually could make it work. This isn't Trump/Obama dependent, but rather China.

No they don't. Trumps trade war with China and breaking all negoatiations with Asian countries for a trade zone with the US - involving environmental laws and regulations, as well as Human Rights - led to China building an Asian trade agreement by themselfes, without any Human Rights or environmental laws. In fact, China pressured the other countries to drop all that. And his "bull in a china store" attitudes on top of that are just coffin nails to future diplomatic negotiations.

He has shown that the US is an unreliable global partner.

Seriously you can see it either way depending in "which glasses you wear".
I could just as well say that untill US was "reliable partner" China could continue to exploit global system with inpudence, but once Trump decided to cut them out, China had no choice but to try to be more self-sufficient and less depended, which would require to actually invest in the quality of life and environmental care of their people (to boost their internal market).
Now that China is actually into green technology it could really boost their development and cut price with mass production for China market. This could actually contribute more to actually achive goals of Paris agreement. Not to mention that if China would become green-tech leader USA would have no choice but to follow, becasue it could no longer blame China.

Kinda similar is with Poland reliance on coal. Recently green techs become more and more viable and we have record year for new isntalled renevable energy sources. Even main energy companies plan to fully switch from coal to renevable in 10-20 years and unlike in the past it seems doable and economically viable.

You people are seriously fixated on being polite and diplomatic, like it worked well shortly before WW2
Only assholes push the world forward - for good and for bad.
Polite people usually can't do shit.