[X3LU] Mayhem 3.21b

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Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 10:49

Hector0x wrote:
Sat, 17. Oct 20, 10:43
Whenever you can't tank with your hp or armor, you have to bring characters or spells which provide high dodge. Or distract the enemy with a lot of cheap summons. If he can only ever attack one unit at a time, his damage output gets severely limited by each summon's hp.

No ship type can effectively tank against the OCV. Dodging doesn't work due to high projectile speeds. So you need something similar to a cheap summon. M5 or M4 will work.
M3 with heavy weapons are worse summons, because they also die in a single hit and you loose 10 times the resources you would loose with a very low cost summon. Keep in mind that some M5 are more expensive than M4. Their is no clear answer on which class to use. But i wouldn't use high tier fighter weapons on either of them (EMPC), unless wasting crystals is no issue. But if that was the case you could do with less crystal fabs/solar plants and have more ship part factories in the first place.

M4:
- better if you want your summon to be the damage dealer. M4 generally have more gun slots and a lot more energy power than M5. And the cost difference between M5>M4 is very low compared to M4>M3.
- 5MJ shields are a lot cheaper than M1 shields. (but against the OCV i'd argue that shields are useless on M4, better get more ships instead)
- this method makes tactics very easy. You basically only need to make sure that your swarm attacks together.

M5
- typically M5 offer way worse combat effectiveness than M4 (for DPS, entry level weaponry like IRE, PAC or MD is a bit less cost effective than tier 2 lasers like PRG or EBC)
- but some M5 designs are the cheapest flying things you can get. They limit OCV damage the most.
- they are only good for distraction. Trying to have them also do much of the damage is less cost effective than with M4.
- use a very cheap M5 with only 1 weapon to minimize the cost of your flying thing. And low range on the weapon to lure the OCV into attacking mostly them. Never use shields on M5.
- if you go this route the rest of your fleet needs to deliver most of the damage. Having high range on them is good.
- this method requires more tactics because your distraction summons need to make first contact, but also get support soon after.
- it should be harder to retreat a mixed fleet with M5 distractions than a pure fleet with M4 damage dealers

Also worth noting is the population cost for each ship. It can get very difficult to maintain swarming tactics with very cheap ships because they get built very fast. Basically your population gets drained until your production speed is low enough to match the population growth. Looping a very cheap M5 will eventually limit your population to something like 60 or so. Having more shipyards helps.

I believe a mix of M4 and M5 is most effective. Fast and deadly. The OCV is just too powerful to risk shiny capships. If it goes south you can still hit "flee all" and have a good chance to save most of your fleet.
I'm going to make another fleet and try out M4s, or probably mix and mash my M4s with M3+. I do however notice that M3s+ are able to survive if most of the shots from 1 burst miss. It's also notable with the Rs since they got only 2 guns to work with per turret.

Also, why would you not put shields on an M5 other than being a waste of crystals? How do enemies prioritize targets?

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Sat, 17. Oct 20, 11:14

i don't think shields have an impact on target priorities.

But with 1 MJ shields you're paying the maximum for each shield unit, so i just never use them ever.
5MJ shields are a bit cheaper, but still very bad cost ratio in my opinion. The cheapest shields are 1GJ and 2GJ. Both have the lowest price per shield unit.

vince8290
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by vince8290 » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 09:22

Has the "corrupt savegame after boarding" problem been elucidated ?

I discovered this morning that my last 3 savegames are corrupted :(
Do we know what causes it ?

I saw a discussion about a month ago about that which sort of stopped there.
I can tell that I (nor my target) didn't fly through a wormhole during a mission.
Thanks

limurchick
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by limurchick » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 16:50

Going to terraform last planet. A i know there is 24hrs to prepare for global OCV invasion...

Can you tell and help me with some info without spoilers?

5 m2, 30 m7, 100 M6 and around 500+ m3 will be enough? Or better to load last save game and prepare?

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Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 16:55

That's hard to tell since it strongly depends on how you approach the OCV with that mass of ships. Chances are all of those M6s are pretty useless and that you should rather invest into M4s and M5s for swarming. The M2s and M7s should take care of the fighters and corvettes while the small ships should swarm the capitals. Don't allow an OCV capital ship to get close to your capitals. Bait the small ships to your capitals. You want to try and take on their fleet one by one instead of the whole bunch.
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ItsMeAUsername
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by ItsMeAUsername » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 17:05

Is anyone else experiencing significantly worse performance in Mayhem 3 compared to LU or Mayhem 1?
I've not played in a while, but I seem to recall being able to run LU and also Mayhem 1 with 6-8x SETA without the FPS dropping too low. Now, in Mayhem 3.4 I have a slide show (probably single digit FPS) with 4-5x SETA in a fairly new galaxy, only a few hours in. Of course I tried dropping shader details, etc, to low - no effect. Also, none of my CPU cores, let alone GPU are maxing out during SETA. I guess the latter is an engine issue, but i am fairly sure performance used to be better before. Anyone else having similar experiences and/or tips on how to improve the FPS? Find it difficult to fly around with only 3x SETA, especially without jumpdrives.
No idea if that's related, but I also noticed that at some trading stations around 50+ trades pile up, with only 2 ships docked. A bit odd.
Anyway, besides those issues, amazing work Joubarbe! Was a pleasure coming back to X3 and seeing that you've continued development of Mayhem.

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Sun, 18. Oct 20, 19:38

@ItsMeAUsername: check if you're using an outdated version. Surplus of traders is causing all the lag. Has been fixed in the latest release.

ItsMeAUsername
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by ItsMeAUsername » Mon, 19. Oct 20, 00:10

Hector0x wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 19:38
@ItsMeAUsername: check if you're using an outdated version. Surplus of traders is causing all the lag. Has been fixed in the latest release.
I was 99% sure I was running 3.4d and even double checked before posting, because of reading the patch log. Well, turns out I am just bad at distinguishing d from b. Updating solved it - runs smooth now. Thanks!

vince8290
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by vince8290 » Mon, 19. Oct 20, 08:52

ItsMeAUsername wrote:
Sun, 18. Oct 20, 17:05
Is anyone else experiencing significantly worse performance in Mayhem 3 compared to LU or Mayhem 1?
I've not played in a while, but I seem to recall being able to run LU and also Mayhem 1 with 6-8x SETA without the FPS dropping too low. Now, in Mayhem 3.4 I have a slide show (probably single digit FPS) with 4-5x SETA in a fairly new galaxy, only a few hours in. Of course I tried dropping shader details, etc, to low - no effect. Also, none of my CPU cores, let alone GPU are maxing out during SETA. I guess the latter is an engine issue, but i am fairly sure performance used to be better before. Anyone else having similar experiences and/or tips on how to improve the FPS? Find it difficult to fly around with only 3x SETA, especially without jumpdrives.
No idea if that's related, but I also noticed that at some trading stations around 50+ trades pile up, with only 2 ships docked. A bit odd.
Anyway, besides those issues, amazing work Joubarbe! Was a pleasure coming back to X3 and seeing that you've continued development of Mayhem.
Update to 3.4d, that fixes the problem

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alexalsp
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by alexalsp » Wed, 21. Oct 20, 07:17

Please add the "Cheat Menu" hotkey if possible.

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Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Thu, 22. Oct 20, 12:51

The Armed Slaves quest doesn't seem to check whether you are in a war with another race and asks you in some games to land in a hostile station, meaning the Hacking feature will not be accessible in the playthrough.

Edit: Scratch that. I forgot that the Corporations are always neutral.
Last edited by Edna on Sun, 25. Oct 20, 00:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Cronos988
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Cronos988 » Fri, 23. Oct 20, 09:11

Did anyone encounter a problem with TS ships trying to sell their own equipment (to a pirate station no less)?

I have just set up my first outpost, the only ware in the list is the food the outpost needs. However, instead of importing that, the trader (a claimed Bragi, so not a bailed TS) tries to sell its shields to a pirate station.

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Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sat, 24. Oct 20, 00:38

By the way, here are some tips regarding stations:

❗️ The Specialization Level of your Outposts will not only speed up the production time required to build a ship/station/item but will reduce the resource costs required. It caps at 50%, meaning things of a particular type will only cost half as many resources. There is a perk for stations that decreases the costs even further. However, to get to the 50% cost reduction, your Outposts will need to produce things of the matching type. This is particularly interesting for station production, as you can turn any Outpost into a station building Outpost by merely telling it to produce Outposts en masse - Outposts have no cost requirements and only take a long time to get produced. It is also always a good idea to have multiple Outposts already fabricated, so there isn't really that much cheese to this. If you tell your Outposts to non-stop produce Outposts, they will cap at Specialization Level 50% within three ingame days.

That being said, you are likely not really requiring that much station production after three days in. Your empire is probably self-sustaining at this point.

❗️ If you have a hot sector that is running risk of getting invaded frequently, a good tactic to massively slow down the enemy's advance is to stuff this sector, before the invasion happens, with Protein Paste Blending Facilities - those are the cheapest stations, meaning they are not much of a loss if they get destroyed. Ideally you place them all far away from your Outpost and far away from each other, basically 50K or more away from the sector central. The enemy is likely invading with capital ships and they are slow. By the time they destroy some of your PPBFs, the claim might end and the enemy fleet withdraws.

There is also no reason to place a Research Station close to any other station. They do not produce wares, do not burn wares and only serve for research and parking lot for capital ships. They are ideal to act as a costly tank.

❗️ It is a good idea to build stations close to each other and close to the Outpost if the system is rather secure. Less travel times mean two things: Your freighters spend less time in open space (meaning they are less likely to get intercepted and they cost less maintenance) and your factories will have less downtimes. I usually place the Outpost in the very center of a sector and place all stations with 5K distance around it, but also 5K below it. That way you give capital ships enough space to dock at your Outpost without running risk of your factories around the Outpost getting in the way.

❗️ Unless you station multiple XL freighters on your Ore and Silicon Mines to empy the storage bays, you do not need to worry about the Ore/Silicon value of an asteroid that much. Sometimes it is better to build a mine on an asteroid closer to your Outpost than for example the high value asteroid that spawned close to a Pirate Base. Even if you destroy the Pirate Base, the asteroids surrounding it are most likely very far out, and freighters are slow.

❗️ When you assign Looters and Tugs to an Outpost, make sure the Outpost in question has the operational range set to the amount of sectors that are in your secure range. A quick M5 or Buster Raider M4 can quickly claim ships that are frequently popping up in hot sectors. It's worth correcting the range whenever the map changes to prevent possible loss of claimable ships.
Last edited by Edna on Sun, 25. Oct 20, 08:20, edited 1 time in total.
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alexalsp
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4

Post by alexalsp » Sat, 24. Oct 20, 09:05

alexalsp wrote:
Mon, 5. Oct 20, 07:53
alexalsp wrote:
Sun, 27. Sep 20, 18:54
Good evening Joubarbe. Explain, if possible, please.
What files are responsible for creating the names of the sectors of the galaxy and voicing them?
I can not understand. I make translation in files: sector_names_stream1.txt, sector_names_stream.txt.
I substitute the time of the sector names from the Russian stream file.
As a result, after generating the galaxy, I jump into a sector but the name of another sector is announced.
Joubarbe wrote:
Mon, 28. Sep 20, 19:57
@alex: I don't know, should work IIRC.
This is sad. :( I tried many options but none helped. :cry: Thanks for the answer.

Excellent. It took a lot of time to find the problem. I figured it out, now everything works as it should.
It turned out that the generator adds the data of the voice over sectors to the file mov \ 00044.xml. Therefore, all the records from the original file relating to the sectors, it was necessary to remove from the template. But who knew .....
:lol: :gruebel:

Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 03:24

Edna wrote:
Sat, 24. Oct 20, 00:38
By the way, here are some tips regarding stations:

❗️ The Specialization Level of your Outposts will not speed up the production time required to build a ship/station/item but will reduce the resource costs required. It caps at 50%, meaning things of a particular type will only cost half as many resources. There is a perk for stations that decreases the costs even further. However, to get to the 50% cost reduction, your Outposts will need to produce things of the matching type. This is particularly interesting for station production, as you can turn any Outpost into a station building Outpost by merely telling it to produce Outposts en masse - Outposts have no cost requirements and only take a long time to get produced. It is also always a good idea to have multiple Outposts already fabricated, so there isn't really that much cheese to this. If you tell your Outposts to non-stop produce Outposts, they will cap at Specialization Level 50% within three ingame days.
That's strange. How come I noticed that the "project size" of 2 of the same ships from 2 different outposts was different when both outposts have different specialization levels? For reference, I compared a 50% one with a 30% one, and my 50% had a smaller project size.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Joubarbe » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 07:09

It will speed up your production time by reducing the project size indeed. Plus, the Armed Slaves mission always targets a Trading Station, and those things are always neutral. You need to be either smart or patient to dock at them if they are in hostile territory.

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Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 08:20

It was missing the context-crucial "only" - so I corrected it.
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VaVylon
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by VaVylon » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 09:18

Greetings guys!
Have one problem: all factions in my galaxy didn't want to sell me any ship from outpost. It always tell: this faction cannot fullfill this order at the moment". Outposts which I checked have enough resources to produce 10 ships, so it's look like a bug (or maybe I didn't see something :/). At same time, when I try to buy the ship and press the button, it's going to production queue despite that faction didn't want to sell it to me. And when production of ship finished - it appers in outpost but stay in property of faction.
Have anybody seen something like that?

I have start 3.4d with clear generated galaxy. But using translation mod (Russian language).
Here save-file and galaxy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12C63-7 ... sp=sharing

Favorgalaxy
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Favorgalaxy » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 14:37

VaVylon wrote:
Sun, 25. Oct 20, 09:18
Greetings guys!
Have one problem: all factions in my galaxy didn't want to sell me any ship from outpost. It always tell: this faction cannot fullfill this order at the moment". Outposts which I checked have enough resources to produce 10 ships, so it's look like a bug (or maybe I didn't see something :/). At same time, when I try to buy the ship and press the button, it's going to production queue despite that faction didn't want to sell it to me. And when production of ship finished - it appers in outpost but stay in property of faction.
Have anybody seen something like that?

I have start 3.4d with clear generated galaxy. But using translation mod (Russian language).
Here save-file and galaxy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12C63-7 ... sp=sharing
Учитывая что ты явно с Ру, поэтому напишу так, эта проблема только в русской локализации, я сам с этим столкнулся. Ошибка где-то в скрипте обработки покупки. Можешь писать alexalsp который видимо и занимается переводом. либо как я перейти на англ версию и не париться, в ней это работает)

Translation for others. the problem is the locale ru
Given that you are clearly from Ru, so I will write this, this problem is only in Russian localization, I myself encountered this. An error somewhere in the script processing the purchase. You can write alexalsp, which is probably responsible for translation. or how do I switch to the English version and not worry, it works in it)

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Sun, 25. Oct 20, 15:24

How are factions developing in your games over the long run? Do you feel like blobbing happens very often? Which factions did you see growing very powerful in your games up until now? Do you think blobbing is a problem? Or do you maybe even like dealing with big factions?

I didn't see blobbing as a huge problem in my games yet. Chaos is in the mod's name after all and perfect balance is boring. But i really dislike that faction relations are constantly changing. After bashing their heads in, two factions get friendly relations when they sign a truce. This happens so often and leads to stupid reputation losses. You have to keep your friend/foe settings up to date with your friend's wars and truces, so that your ships don't attack the wrong ship in a friend's sector who just signed a truce.


For my next game i'm considering to just set all factions up with permanent relations during galaxy generation. But i believe that would seriously accelerate blobbing. Truces are needed to stop powerful battlegroups from blasting all the way through countless sectors too quickly. I got the feeling that some faction will always have the upper hand. And truces just slow it down until the player maybe intervenes. Without truces it's probably going to be a complete rush fest.
Anyone tried this yet? 2 big alliances against each other? Or all out perma-war every faction against the world? How does this work?

I'm sharing some diplomacy suggestions. These started as a fix for my problem with those constantly changing relations from truces. But i also always had this idea of small factions which are dynamically teaming up against blobbing empires. A small chance to equalize the powerbalance without player intervention. And i think i came up with something feasible.

(wall of text)
Spoiler
Show
AI vs. AI truce changes:
- sector conquest still causes a truce between 2 AI factions, but it no longer causes the factions to be friendly with each other. They only get neutral relations again.
Shooting down Argon assets in a Paranid sector during a Argon/Paranid truce no longer causes massive Paranid reputation losses for the player (the Paranid police should also ignore it, if this is possible).

- truce only sets neutral relations and prevents both faction's battlegroups from invading each others sectors until the truce timer runs out (this keeps the blobbing slowdown effect of truces intact)
- friendly relations between AI's are only possible if A) perma-alliance set during galaxy creation or B) from small factions dynamically banding together to cut a common enemy down to size again (new coalition system).
- the battlegroup blocking effect of truces is even working with permanent wars enabled (they just don't set relations to neutral so trade is still not possible)



Coalition System:

1) one time check after each AI vs. AI sector conquest. Check is only made if the winner owns more sectors than the loser.
example:
Teladi conquer Argon sector. Teladi own more sectors than Argon. Argon rolls a coalition check.

2) share of galaxy owned by smaller faction gets subtracted from share owned by bigger faction
example:
Teladi own 34% of the galaxy, Argon own 12%. Difference is 22.

3) output subtracted by 10. (this could be customizable in the t-file. It's the minimum empire size difference, measured in % of the whole galaxy.)
example:
22-10=12

4) result is the chance that the small faction wants to form a coalition against the big faction.
example:
Argon have 12% chance to want to form an anti-Teladi coalition from this one time coalition check caused by the sector loss.

5) Coalition checks can be passed between factions with dynamic or perma-war relations set during galaxy generation.
example:
Argon have dynamic relations with Teladi. Argon can pass the coalition check.

6) The first time a coalition check is positive, the game remembers this fact permanently.
example:
Argon loose even more sectors to Teladi (which raises the % chance for each check). Check eventually gets passed. Argon now permanently want to form a coalition against Teladi. No immediate effect.

7) It is possible that a faction wants a coalition against multiple other factions.
example:
Argon loose another sector to the Paranid faction, which is also much bigger than Argon. Anti-Paranid coalition check gets passed by Argon. Argon now wants coalition against Teladi and Paranid.

8/ Once 2 factions want a coalition against the same target faction, a permanent alliance is formed (with resource share). All coalition factions start a perma-war against the coalition target.
example:
Paranid loose sectors to Teladi. Paranid are small enough to also get a chance to pass the Teladi coalition check. Passing the check results in Perma-Alliance between Argon/Paranid + Perma-war between Argon/Teladi and Paranid/Teladi

9) Once a coalition exists, all member factions are no longer willing to join any other coalition. The game forgets their previously passed checks and they are not allowed to pass any more checks.
example:
Argon forget that they also wanted a coalition against Paranid. Argon and Paranid cannot pass any future coalition checks as long as they are in the anti-Teladi coalition.

10) if a third faction passes the check it joins the coalition.
example:
Teladi happen to remain powerful and manage to conquer even more sectors from Boron. Boron also pass anti-Teladi coalition check. Boron joins anti-Teladi coalition. Boron perma-alliance with Argon and Paranid and Boron perma-war against Teladi.

11) coalition lasts until the coalition target owns the same amount or less sectors than the biggest coalition member.
example:
Teladi finally start to loose some sectors until they have 32. Paranid also own 32 sectors. Anti-Teladi coalition ends for Paranid, Argon and Boron. Perma-alliances end. Perma-wars end. Argon, Paranid and Boron can pass coalition checks again.

12) Optional: coalition member battlegroups must choose to invade coalition target sectors if possible. Border patrol squadrons have a high chance to be redirected to a sector which is bordering a coalition target sector. Ordering new border patrols and battlegroups for construction while being in a coalition has a high chance to start in a sector which is bordering a coalition target sector.
example:
- Argon/Boron/Paranid are in the anti-Teladi coalition. Paranid are ready to invade with one of their battlegroups. They could choose a Split sector, or a Teladi sector. They must choose the Teladi sector if no truce with Teladi is preventing this.
- a Boron border patrol squadron gets a random homebase reassignment. Instead of being completely random, the homebase is very likely to be an outpost near a Teladi border.
- the Argons now having access to Paranid resources can rebuild a previously destroyed battlegroup. They have a high chance to build it in an outpost near a Teladi border.

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