Barbosa wrote: ↑Sun, 10. May 20, 15:59
In the "What is X4: Foundations?" youtube videos, you guys say how we have the freedom to play like we desire, but how can we do that if one of the most crucial feature of "STRATEGY" and "TRADE" are broken? Or did the think group of X4 devs think that everything is fine after lots and lots of complains about this specific feature in the last months?
They are fine videos repeated ad nauseam in the "live" conference to the point I had to leave it be!!! That said, they NEVER mention the "hot" issue of pilot levelling which will bring the game forward.
Barbosa wrote: ↑Sun, 10. May 20, 15:59
(PS: I don't want to need mods to have a reasonable gameplay)
I'm afraid it's the "new normal" my friend, well established in X Rebirth.. the "old ways" of X, X2, X3 are over and out (it seems)… Maybe because they were so successful that bought this game to be a level to compare to all the others in the genre?
Gregorovitch wrote: ↑Sun, 10. May 20, 11:14
Just going to post an update on my experiences of crew management/development so far (~130h into this save) here as it seems an appropriate thread for it:
1. Pilot school. This is not working at all after 18 hours now (see above for details of set up). 18 hours of intensive ecell deliveries around GE have triggered not one single 1/3* level up for six student pilots.
2. I have two DW and one Autotrader working in this game all for more than 100h and none of them have been awarded a single 1/3* increment on pilot skill.
3. Taking these two facts together I am now seriously questioning if the chances of a pilot level up from trading are in fact 0.0%, period.
4. I am having serious problems managing the leveled pilots I do have (via combat) because with 1500 odd staff now I cannot identify them. I URGENTLY need an update to the crew list on the empire tab and I URGENTLY need a pilot listing available for each fleet/wing, the critical information being current pilot skill, morale and ship condition. I mean a report listing, not individual ship tabs, this is about managing large numbers of ships and pilots. Specific issues are:
* With 100's of service crew (who's level I couldn't really care less about) I can't find my pilots on the simple crew list provided. I can't find individuals for re-allocation etc and I can't monitor pilot progress 'cos I can't see the wood for the trees. The immediate requirement is for a filter on this listing to restrict it to pilots only and to give the actual pilot skill AND morale level as well as overall * rating 'cos morale issue is as important as pilot skill.
* whether in strategic planning mode or in the heat of a mega-battle with the Xenon, what I crave above all is fleet/wing summary report tab that tells me at a glance the progress/value of each pilot in the wing/fleet (i.e. their pilot skill and morale level) and the current condition of their ships, specifically hull condition. I then want to issue orders from this report listing 'cos this is the information on which I often need to base my decisions.
With over 6,000 hrs in X Universe and 500 hrs in the game, all in starts that I had to abandon (or chose to abandon) in the first 10-15 hours I came to a conclusion: USE MODS!!! Then they can see their Venture program sink down the hole (where it belongs as it is not interactive) and maybe (just maybe) pay some attention to what people are saying in here... Afterall 40+ pages on a subject is not anything to ignore is it?
OMG! One of my six students has been awarded a 1/3* level up! After just 22h of hard graft shifting 150 unit loads of ecells in a fast scout round GE. We could be looking at a ballpark average of a mere 75-100 hour turnaround to train a 2* trader into a 3* one! Isn't that exiting!
Gregorovitch wrote: ↑Sun, 10. May 20, 23:22
Pilot School Update:
OMG! One of my six students has been awarded a 1/3* level up! After just 22h of hard graft shifting 150 unit loads of ecells in a fast scout round GE. We could be looking at a ballpark average of a mere 75-100 hour turnaround to train a 2* trader into a 3* one! Isn't that exiting!
OMG!! Only 100hrs?!?! Training pilots is too OP! We need a nerf to pilot xp gain!
Brute force and ignorance solves all problems, just not very efficiently.
If brute force isn't working, then you aren't using enough.
Isn't X4 supposed to be a sandbox, where we the players decide how to play? I really don't see the problem why they won't let people, who want to throw just money at pilot leveling, do exactly that. And others who prefer leveling their pilots "naturally", just that. Right now we are totally forced to play one way to get pilots better. I played 3.10 for 9 hrs so far and i'm already tired of trying to lvl my crew.
Babberdeggl wrote: ↑Mon, 11. May 20, 03:38
Isn't X4 supposed to be a sandbox, where we the players decide how to play? I really don't see the problem why they won't let people, who want to throw just money at pilot leveling, do exactly that. And others who prefer leveling their pilots "naturally", just that. Right now we are totally forced to play one way to get pilots better. I played 3.10 for 9 hrs so far and i'm already tired of trying to lvl my crew.
There are two questions afoot here, one being are we all happy with the current situation and the second being if not how should the situation be changed. There are two views regarding the latter question, one being a single global rule change applied to all and the other a menu of options individual players can choose from as they wish.
Last edited by Alan Phipps on Tue, 19. May 20, 14:08, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:To make sense after removal of redundant posts.
Babberdeggl wrote: ↑Mon, 11. May 20, 11:32
I'm not sure what you are saying. If it's something like: if there are ways to exploit something, people will do it.
Well, a couple of people will exploit stuff, others won't. You don't have to do something just because you are able to. Imo this point would only be valid in multiplayer games.
Yeah, I've debated this many times over the years with many folks who share your perspective but IMO you are incorrect on two counts:
"You don't have to do something just because you are able to" whilst this is strictly speaking, technically true in practice it is not. I can testify to this for myself and from many I've spoken to about his over the years. The Quill18 story I just gave is another classic example of why this is not true in practice. Such exploits ruin the game experience for many folks because they alter the power curves.
"Well, a couple of people will exploit stuff" this is IMO definitely not the case. Except with the most egregious and cheesy exploits many and frequently most players will use well known exploits when they find out about them. Very often they are viewed as a standard part of the game and many players hold the view that "if the game let's me do it, it's in the rules, I'm gonna use, hell yeah".
IMO The problem is that whenever you change something or add something that materially affects a game's power curve it affects everybody for better or worse, whether it's optional or not, and when it's an exploit/shortcut it's usually for the worse as it degrades the intended game experience, dumbs it down essentially. That's why games have rulesets and why if you you try to please everybody you end up pleasing nobody.
Gregorovitch wrote: ↑Mon, 11. May 20, 11:37There are two views regarding the latter question, one being a single global rule change applied to all and the other a menu of options individual players can choose from as they wish.
I don't see a contradiction. Remember the many "free ships" triggered by corporate missions in an earlier patch? There were many rants about it and it was patched out later). Personnally I didn't care a lot, because no one forced me to board these ships.
Considering your posts about exploits and glitches: Are you aware that we speak about a Single Player game? You can't cheat yourself. If you do, it's your choice.
The main point of DEVs (as I uderstand) - is that fast level progression will be unbalanced. But this is a singleplayer game, its not mmo, so it needs some different approach to what to consider to be a balance.
Balance, for example, is when I can choose any ship, based on his advantages and disadvantages, but not on its overwhelming and absolute advantages/disadvantages over others (like boron fighters ~3500 weapon energy vs 5000-8000 for other fighters in X3, or 2 weapons vs 4-6 in X4, or Begemot vs Rattlesnake and so on).
So I dont see any point of making an RNG based progression instead of just larger ammounts of XP for every new star, but guarantied XP for every kill or encounter, not at 3% chance. Let's maybe create survey topic? Like "we want guarantied xp and reasonable progression" or "let it be, we want rng" or "we want another decision from Egosoft"?
Also, what is the general problem for people who are interested in this theme?
1. You know that level progression exist and want to know how it works? - well, this is our nature, nothing to say
2. You against rng basis? - me too, let us vote!
3. You need 3 star pilots? - go to pirate base or free port, there you easily can find "2 and 2/3" pilot worth 800-1000k, give them 1 seminar and get your autotrader
4. Your pilots stuck at 3 stars? - mine too: hundreds of kills, dozens of hours in fight - and only one of them get 1/3 above 3.
upd
btw, after I post this I noticed, that my Demeter Vanguard Autotrader already has 3 and 2/3 **!! he started at 3*, and much later, than my fighters
I'm in the 3.20 Beta since the day it started... no joy on the miners getting experience... at least in a way that is faster than 300 hours for 1 in 10 that is.... (I'm NOT such a masochist to wait and find out if it does work like the cargo pilots with 10 miners around...)
Like I've stated time and time again, the path was written in X Rebirth and it's been followed with religious vigour (makes me wonder if the devs are Paranids): WE give you a nice game with great potential, YOU find the mods that will make it enjoyable!!! and may G.O.D. help us all!!! (Trinity completed!!!)
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