How to make a flight academy in 3.10 - vanilla

[zakaluka]

It's actually possible to create a kind of flight academy using nothing but the tools we have available in 3.1. Take it or leave it, but I'm having some success.

(One thing that seems for certain: explore isn't working like it used to - explorers get stuck and idle instead of actually performing actions)

First step: just make an incursion into enemy territory where there's a hostile wharf. I think any KHK station is the best choice here since they won't build capitals; if you set up by a xenon wharf, capitals will come in from elsewhere on occasion, and that will require micro. But you might consider it a cheat to target KHK based on, they have no economy.
Second: build a heavily fortified defense station say, 80 km from the enemy shipyard.
Next: buy yourself a large swarm of low-tier fighters, set their orders to "protect station". (I am using some heavy fighters and some scouts - scouts because I want small ship kills to count as hard if possible)

Here's what you get, an unending battle - your fighters won't go attack the enemy station, they just attack enemy ships that come near your station:
In vanilla, it still takes a while to reach 3 stars. You can mod experience gain if you want to. But, this approach seems at least somewhat efficient. Every time an enemy dies, every one of your ships that did damage gets full credit for an easy kill and partial credit for a hard kill.



Reference - viewtopic.php?f=181&t=424312#p4933124
Mackan explains how experience is divided between pilots who assisted on a kill.

[goduranus]

Wow

[lordmuck]

Do you think 6 s ships could handle this ? Or should I place some turrets? I was thinking dock + something for turrets not many for sure

[zakaluka]

Do you think 6 s ships could handle this ? Or should I place some turrets? I was thinking dock + something for turrets not many for sure

I would recommend a station with at least 2 fully loaded disc defense platforms.

If you're only sending in a small squad it'll require more micro. Basically, your ships will tend to push in to the enemy and not let the station engage. But if they get overwhelmed you cancel all orders/flee and have them regroup behind the station. Enemy will attack the station and then your pilots will fly back in to engage.

It's doable but you're going to have to intervene more often and you're going to have more casualties.

[Raevyan]

Well we all need lots of skilled pilots. Will give it a try with ~30-40 fighters and see if it’s better than farming Xenons in a Rattlesnake.
I guess a carrier with hold position command and fighters set to intercept/or defend ship should also work?

[Panos]

<teladi voice>But why? </teladi voice>

If someone starts a new game, by the time goes through the whole Plotline to get some break, surely 25-30 miners with full crew is the better option. (5 per faction, 3 on Ore 2 on Silicon).
They make money while training 9+ members each. So 225-300 good commanders (most will have 4+ star morale & engineering so they need only 2 books to get 1 star pilot to be 3 star average). In 25 hours it takes to do the new research & full plot, those miners make money and raising the standing to 20+ on all factions they are assigned.

[zakaluka]

I guess a carrier with hold position command and fighters set to intercept/or defend ship should also work?

Don't put them in a fleet, intercept is bugged oos right now. But yes, a destroyer would work as the anchor point. For various reasons I think a station works best, but try it out.

[zakaluka]

<teladi voice>But why? </teladi voice>

If someone starts a new game, by the time goes through the whole Plotline to get some break, surely 25-30 miners

Miners have a much lower action rate. And there are a few bugs with miner leveling right now. There's an error in the math that results in fewer 'actions'. Most actions count as bad trades so they get the 'easy' curve and reduce morale.

No, in practice this is faster. If mining wasn't bugged, it might be about the same. (Btw only the pilot gains piloting levels)

[Panos]

<teladi voice>But why? </teladi voice>

If someone starts a new game, by the time goes through the whole Plotline to get some break, surely 25-30 miners

Miners have a much lower action rate. And there are a few bugs with miner leveling right now. There's an error in the math that results in fewer 'actions'. Most actions count as bad trades so they get the 'easy' curve and reduce morale.

No, in practice this is faster. If mining wasn't bugged, it might be about the same. (Btw only the pilot gains piloting levels)

Mining is not bugged. Also do not use the huge Teladi miners but Split ones. They move faster, raising the speed training over the Teladi by 2

[bobucles2]

Mining is not bugged.

Well, sometimes miners will target zones without their resources, and spend hours exploring the void to get nothing. I've tried manually putting them back on target but they'll just wander off again. That seems like a bug to me.

[Panos]

Mining is not bugged.

Well, sometimes miners will target zones without their resources, and spend hours exploring the void to get nothing. I've tried manually putting them back on target but they'll just wander off again. That seems like a bug to me.

Seems you either set them wrongly or you use some mods.

[Ranix]

Mining is not bugged.

Well, sometimes miners will target zones without their resources, and spend hours exploring the void to get nothing. I've tried manually putting them back on target but they'll just wander off again. That seems like a bug to me.

Seems you either set them wrongly or you use some mods.

yeah that seems MUCH more likely than a bug

[zakaluka]

Mining is not bugged.

Unfavorable trade bug. Also a bug that causes them to not get credit for most of the actions they should get credit for. The end result is mining levels at a fraction of the speed it should and not in intuitive / intended ways.

viewtopic.php?p=4930638#p4930638
For details (later in same thread given a nod by egosoft)

This line of discussion is a bit of a hijack.

Back to the topic in the title - what's the why of this: to print 3 star pilots relatively quickly. They complete combat actions at a very high rate this way. A fair few die but that's okay. Every once in a while come in and skim the best ones.

[lordmuck]

Trying this out in my lets play left a link here to give credit where credit is due

I think this will work out fine, I just need to keep track of how long iv been playing and how many waves they got through. I am using 5 elites 1 cerb and a split scout for now. 1 dock + argon disk 80km away from the khaakness station . The elites can hold their own for sure

[zakaluka]

5 elites 1 cerb and a split scout for now. 1 dock + argon disk 80km away from the khaakness station . The elites can hold their own for sure

I suspect it will take a lot of micro with only 5 elites, if you're up to it that's fine. But it's better if you have enough to just leave them alone.

First - squad ai isn't working correctly out of sector for me. Had to set a protect station order individually on each ship.

Second, some waves are too big and your ships push in hard before the station engages. You have to cancel orders on all, flee behind the station, and try again.

You might have different experience than me. (Also I expect your cerb to draw too much aggro and be a bit of a sitting duck)

[lordmuck]

5 elites 1 cerb and a split scout for now. 1 dock + argon disk 80km away from the khaakness station . The elites can hold their own for sure

I suspect it will take a lot of micro with only 5 elites, if you're up to it that's fine. But it's better if you have enough to just leave them alone.

First - squad ai isn't working correctly out of sector for me. Had to set a protect station order individually on each ship.

Second, some waves are too big and your ships push in hard before the station engages. You have to cancel orders on all, flee behind the station, and try again.

You might have different experience than me. (Also I expect your cerb to draw too much aggro and be a bit of a sitting duck)

Yeah I'm keeping an eye on them they are doing well, its better IS for sure OOS they are ok, so far only 1 had its hull scratched to 99%. Tho the damn turrets on the station are not doing anything "attack all enemies" "active" are selected.

[zakaluka]

Yeah I'm keeping an eye on them they are doing well, its better IS for sure OOS they are ok, so far only 1 had its hull scratched to 99%. Tho the damn turrets on the station are not doing anything "attack all enemies" "active" are selected.

The station will only engage if you flee behind it and some of the enemy switch targets to the station.

It's for when you get overwhelmed to the point of needing to flee, or for when a destroyer shows up.

[TonyEvans]

Mining is not bugged.

Well, sometimes miners will target zones without their resources, and spend hours exploring the void to get nothing. I've tried manually putting them back on target but they'll just wander off again. That seems like a bug to me.

Seems you either set them wrongly or you use some mods.

I had that issue - set up a Refined Goods station in a sector that I thought would have Ore+Silicon (didn't do a single bit of resource scouting.. so that's on me, naturally).
Turns out, it was nothing but ice. I swapped my manager from my Ship Tech Fab (4 star manager, VERY profitable station where the ZYA Wharf+Shipyard is), and it gave my miners the range to go to actually mineable systems.


Miner AND Trader range is dictated not by the pilots, but by the Manager of that station. I don't know if it's Morale or Management, or the NPC level of the averaged skills, but higher stars means more range.

[Raevyan]

Well I have tried the khaak training academy now for quite some time. I did not see any progress in pilot skill on my 40 s fighters (mix of balaur and chimera).
Do you have to be in sector? Sometime I have the feeling that pilot skill is only gained in sector but I definitely saw them lvl oos.
One of my patrolling rattlesnakes is constantly killing xenon fighters and the occasional K but seems to be stuck at 2 piloting. Another one is just short of 3 stars, hired hours later than the other one.

[lordmuck]

Well I have tried the khaak training academy now for quite some time. I did not see any progress in pilot skill on my 40 s fighters (mix of balaur and chimera).
Do you have to be in sector? Sometime I have the feeling that pilot skill is only gained in sector but I definitely saw them lvl oos.
One of my patrolling rattlesnakes is constantly killing xenon fighters and the occasional K but seems to be stuck at 2 piloting. Another one is just short of 3 stars, hired hours later than the other one.

I think it may work better if you use less ships and not bigger than m for sure. I have a Cerb mixed with 5 elites atm, the Cerbs 3rd star is filling up a little now after 16 waves of khaak. (don't know how many it tagged and killed tho and amounts of khaak in a wave differed a little) Moral seems to tick up quicker than anything for these pilots.