Trump

[Grim Lock]

Well, I feel it's kinda irony in what you have here in just one sentence. But first, a congratulation is in order if you are able to live in a country with such high participation rate, and I'm not being sarcastic there. But also by saying "you can't identify" ... isn't that what it means by "lacking empathy"? With all due respect, I'm not taking a shot at you, I firmly believe most people see and view the world through their own frame of reference, and that itself is shaped and mold by the environment and culture they live in, and I also apply that belief to myself. But isn't empathy refer to the ability to understand the situation outside of your own experience? In the last 100 years, the best vote turn out rate for the US is ~63%, and that's for presidential election, the number for midterm is even worse.

I think your nitpicking my use of english language too much. It's not perfect but i'm trying my best.

When i said can't identify, i might have said, i can understand your problem and empathize with it, but it's not something i've got experience with from my frame of reference.

When i think of the word empathy, it think of it more in terms of understanding other mans difficulties or barriers get out of a ****** life, less about what whole countries do. (so more focused on a personal plight i guess)

Ps: voter turnout in the two previous elections over here was +/- 75%, the lower turnout served in favor of our blonde moron too, so much of the effort over here went into getting people to vote, not only into trying to change people's mind, i feel the US dems would do well to focus a lot of effort on simply getting people to go out and vote, if im reading polls and approval rates correctly and they are indeed correct within their margin, in a hypothethical 100% voter turnout Trump doesn't seem to stand a chance, so if i where a dem, id focus on getting the voter turnout as high as possible.

Ps2: It's a bit of an open door, but i do feel that one of the reasons the US has such a low turnout is directly related to having only choice A or B, now we represent the other end of the spectrum that brings it's own problems, but having 28 parties to choose from pretty much ensures a whatever you want you can vote for. If i could magicly change something in the US i would split the rep and dem parties into at least six or seven parties. Hell in many ways that's already the case, it's just that the way voting is set up a coalition between moderate dems and reps is impossible.

Ps3: And that Trump-supporters want? To ignore the wishes of others in favor of their own, just like everybody else.

[fiksal]

The last part of the sentence is missing one key element - "better candidate than Trump, for Trump supporters"
There were (arguably) several better candidates than Trump that ran in primaries, and one during the actual election.

So that didnt work.


One can try to win differently. What's the current voter turn out, 40%? Get more people to vote, to drown out the pro-Trump voices.

Do you know what would appeal to a Trump supporter? I think that is the root of a serious problem right there and one the democrats never addressed. They went right into Russia hysteria and never bothered to figure out why they really lost.

Does it matter? It's a losing strategy to appeal to Trump supporters, Democrats will always lose if they stick to it.

Do you know what would appeal to a liberal?

[felter]

So trump has been accused by a US spy of making a promise to a foreign government, not too sure on what the complaint is or even who the foreign government is. Trumps response to the allegation is the funny part:

"is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader".

Hell yeah, it's more like is anyone dumb enough to think he wouldn't do so.

Remember Trump is the guy who on his first meeting with Russian officials, blabbed out and gave away state secrets to them, for free.

[RegisterMe]

The last part of the sentence is missing one key element - "better candidate than Trump, for Trump supporters"
There were (arguably) several better candidates than Trump that ran in primaries, and one during the actual election.

So that didnt work.


One can try to win differently. What's the current voter turn out, 40%? Get more people to vote, to drown out the pro-Trump voices.

Do you know what would appeal to a Trump supporter? I think that is the root of a serious problem right there and one the democrats never addressed. They went right into Russia hysteria and never bothered to figure out why they really lost.

Does it matter? It's a losing strategy to appeal to Trump supporters, Democrats will always lose if they stick to it.

Do you know what would appeal to a liberal?

This dialogue here is the crux of it.

Not all Trump voters are Redneck hillbilly coal mining climate changing denying race-baiters. Just as not all Democrat voters are lilly livered liberals (socialist in disguise) with identity issues.

The way forward likely involves some kind of middle ground. The world will be a better place when America gets its head around this and votes accordingly.

[Chips]

So it's what, about 14 months until the election?
I'm assuming it's Trump vs whomever the Democrats chose? So, how is all this going? As in, are there any decent contenders, or is it now 10 months of ripping each other apart to try and oppose Trump?

I am going to assume that, as always, regardless of WHO is the candidate, Democrats will ultimately vote for the Democrat, Republicans will vote Trump. Any initial starters on the ones who are unaligned? Any initial polls that indicate Trump is in trouble, or the opposite?

And here is the example of how "too much cynicism" is the biggest enemy of progress.

Good news: those assumptions are mostly wrong.
Bad news: a lot of people believe those assumptions.

I cited this before:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245813/lea ... gains.aspx

and I will cite one more this time:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/part ... ation.aspx

What both of them shows is that the Independent voters (no party affiliation) and neutral voters (no ideology affiliation) still make up the biggest chunk of the voters comparing to the hardcore loyalists - by a big margin. This is why after each election, the next 3 months whichever party lost always go through the soul searching phase of "how can we grab the swing voters, how can woo the independent". And yes, for 3 months we independent got to enjoy the lime light when everybody suddenly remember that we exist. But after that period? Each party just go back and carter to their own voting base, and that's how in the next 2-4 years the cynical narrative got built up to the point where a lot of people believe those wrong assumption. I'm taking a pretty wild guess those assumptions have something to do with people just decide not to vote.

Nothing in what you post indicates whether democrats (those identifying as such) vote for republican, nor those identifying as republicans vote for democrats. You've managed to not only fail to answer the question, but answered a non existent question in the belief that you're answering a question.

An example of an unrare talent indeed!

[Mightysword]

Any initial starters on the ones who are unaligned? Any initial polls that indicate Trump is in trouble, or the opposite?

Perhaps I had misinterpreted your question, or perhaps what you were asking weren't clear enough, or simply were open enough that it can be interpreted differently then what you originally intended. I'm simply point out that even if all Democrat vote Democrat and all Republican vote Republican -which actually doesn't happen btw, part of the reason Hilary lost because she lost area that had voted Democrat for decades- ultimately it's still gonna be the independent voters that decided, the affiliated voters don't have the number to carry their own party for either side.

Which - I should remind you - it is the context of the current discussion about "what is the better candidate". Which pretty much all the posts on the pages are talking about. To affiliated maybe that's an irrelevant question, but to independent voters that's an important and valid statement. Your post came in the middle of that, so I don't think it's too unreasonable for me to assume it is within the same frame of the current topic, or is it? And if it's not what you meant, that's fine, simply seek clarification, or correction if you believe you were misunderstood.

You've managed to not only fail to answer the question, but answered a non existent question in the belief that you're answering a question.
An example of an unrare talent indeed!

But I guess for a thread that's constantly talk about Trump, it's natural for his 'style' to have an influence here.

[Grim Lock]

I think you'll enjoy this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o

[Vertigo 7]

I think you'll enjoy this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S0FDjFBj8o

If it wasn't for sentences being formed from coherent thoughts, this would be identical to any Trump speech.

[RegisterMe]

So what do we all think about the brewing kerfuffle over this "senior intelligence whistle blower" (and them being prevented from using the whistle blowing process to talk to Congress by the DoJ)?

[fiksal]

This dialogue here is the crux of it.

Not all Trump voters are Redneck hillbilly coal mining climate changing denying race-baiters. Just as not all Democrat voters are lilly livered liberals (socialist in disguise) with identity issues.

The way forward likely involves some kind of middle ground. The world will be a better place when America gets its head around this and votes accordingly.

I dont know. Maybe?
I am less optimistic on that scenario. I've talked enough to Trump supporters and zero of them wanted anything offered by democrats, liberals or else. Most want to fight communists and have camps for media and undesirable immigrants. So.

I dont refer to Trump supporters as redneck hillbillies, (I refer to them as something else), and I can see that I have zero in common with them. I have no wish to see Democrats bend backwards to their wishes. The party needs to grow a back bone, that's what I hope for. Republicans are useless and no other party can move up currently.

[Grim Lock]

So what do we all think about the brewing kerfuffle over this "senior intelligence whistle blower" (and them being prevented from using the whistle blowing process to talk to Congress by the DoJ)?

Nothing until i ran into this latest tweet from the stable genius:

"....Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. I would only do what is right anyway, and only do good for the USA!"


In Trump's universe where bad is good, smart is dumb, i'm happy to say, i'm dumb indeed.

[Vertigo 7]

So what do we all think about the brewing kerfuffle over this "senior intelligence whistle blower" (and them being prevented from using the whistle blowing process to talk to Congress by the DoJ)?

The DoJ trying to prevent this from going to congress really stinks of a cover up to me. Intelligence Oversight has all of the clearances necessary to review any information in the report so there's no good reason for the DoJ attempting to bury it. The only conclusion to draw is they're protecting Trump.

[BugMeister]

- apparently it's something to do with Ukraine..

[felter]

Ukraine again, now that's a place that keeps on cropping up since before he was elected.

[Masterbagger]

So what do we all think about the brewing kerfuffle over this "senior intelligence whistle blower" (and them being prevented from using the whistle blowing process to talk to Congress by the DoJ)?

This is democrats giving people a squirrel to chase. I know Schiff to have relentlessly lied over the last few years to delegitimize Trump. If he is involved then I have to question the accusations when there is bias as a motive. It reminds me that Justice Kavanaugh smears surfaced again last week with completely unverifiable claims. A few years ago no reputable journalist would have run a story on that source and a claim that can't be corroborated. Trump changed all of the rules. Dems know that their most enthusiastic supporters crave something to be angry about. They have to keep delivering something to keep the outrage going. Now they are going to virtue signal about whistle blowers to keep the false outrage alive.

None of this is going to go anywhere but the real purpose behind it is to make people angry and receptive to the false impeachment hope the dems are going to dangle. I think they know they can't stop him in 2020 but they can't show themselves to have given up. To do that would be to accept that Trump won and that is one thing the democrats can't do. They have not conceded the 2016 election when the next is right around the corner. The only definitive thing that can be said is that we are all living in interesting times.

I dont know. Maybe?
I am less optimistic on that scenario. I've talked enough to Trump supporters and zero of them wanted anything offered by democrats, liberals or else. Most want to fight communists and have camps for media and undesirable immigrants. So.

I dont refer to Trump supporters as redneck hillbillies, (I refer to them as something else), and I can see that I have zero in common with them. I have no wish to see Democrats bend backwards to their wishes. The party needs to grow a back bone, that's what I hope for. Republicans are useless and no other party can move up currently.

You are sort of correct. I don't want anything to do with democrats as they are now but they aren't offering me anything. They are demanding. They need something from me and they don't think I should be able to refuse them. They are mad as hell that I even have that option now and the lack of power to make me do what they command is manifesting as intense personal hatred being projected. I don't think disagreement should mean we have to hate each other. I won't compromise with anyone that thinks I don't have the right to disagree and says vile things about my character for daring to do it.

[Vertigo 7]

You are sort of correct. I don't want anything to do with democrats as they are now but they aren't offering me anything. They are demanding. They need something from me and they don't think I should be able to refuse them. They are mad as hell that I even have that option now and the lack of power to make me do what they command is manifesting as intense personal hatred being projected. I don't think disagreement should mean we have to hate each other. I won't compromise with anyone that thinks I don't have the right to disagree and says vile things about my character for daring to do it.

Can you have any other character but vile when you support a known racist, sexual deviant, and misogynist?

IF on the 1 in a million chance, you are not any of those things yourself, you've already compromised your own character just by standing up for that bastard. If you can't see that, I truly pity you.

Any individual with any sense of decency would condemn that horrid man and those that support him. There is no room to negotiate or compromise with any one in that camp regardless of political affiliation.

[fiksal]

You are sort of correct.

Yep, I think indeed I am.

I don't think disagreement should mean we have to hate each other.

Speaking generally, hatred is also can be earned.

[BugMeister]

history on the Supreme Court and judicial machinations..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EboKyQQ8wOk

Trump (- and McConnell, et al) appears to be using the age-old fascistic/authoritarian method of gaining political control through legal manipulation..
- hence their clear stuffing of the Supreme bench.. (Kavanaugh et al..)

- however, since the recent revelations regarding Trump's treacherous attempt to enlist foreign support for his personal domestic cause..
- the only remaining option is to initiate full and urgent impeachment enquiries into Donald Trump's presidency, for reasons of National Security..

- the US electorate also needs to know how and why Trump was selected for candidacy by the Republicans, in the first place..

[Grim Lock]

Now if i was an American republican that isn't a Trumpian i would be very worried about the next president after Trump, no matter who it's going to be, one clear message everyone has received by now is that an US president can do pretty much whatever and not be held accountable, sure Trumpians might be cheering Trumps corrupt, racist, retarded actions while it's working for them, but the next democratic president will also know that there's a lot of options they didn't even consider before Trumps retarded presidency.

[Vertigo 7]

Now if i was an American republican that isn't a Trumpian i would be very worried about the next president after Trump, no matter who it's going to be, one clear message everyone has received by now is that an US president can do pretty much whatever and not be held accountable, sure Trumpians might be cheering Trumps corrupt, racist, retarded actions while it's working for them, but the next democratic president will also know that there's a lot of options they didn't even consider before Trumps retarded presidency.

Oooo you know, deportation of the Trumpanzies would be great!