[MOD] Rise of the Ossian Raider v2.0 and ashipmod

[Misunderstood Wookie]

excellent new.

[DeadAirRT]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

I am getting antsy haha.
Just waiting for VRO dev to do the same actually.

[Aranov]

Hello,
So "Rise of the Ossian Raider" brought me back in to X4 it looked so nice, but I'm seeing a few problems.

This is with the MK1 fleet mod.
So foremost, the Ossians feel WAY overtuned. The other factions can't keep up. They're just sending hordes of Behemoths, supported by Eurekas, at anything that stands.
I try to fight back, but I can't catch enough of a break to actually make money, so with attrition all I have left is an Taranis MK3 that I put all my money in and a Eureka I found.
There are other destroyers of course, but I can't trust the NPC shipyards to have resources to maintain them, which wouldn't be a problem if my damn auto traders would do something other die to HOP or ORA.
But that last one is not your fault (still waiting one that sector blacklist Egosoft).

Second, Eurekas feel poorly balanced. The issues came to light over many frustrating boarding attempts. Most glaring is the hardpoints have to much shield and health it seems. My ships try to take them out but the 'primary' shields fall long
before a hardpoint can even be knocked out, and from there the target just gets destroyed. Next is I feel they are over crewed. A full veteran marine complement? Know how hard those are to get? Even if I got them all I'd have to transfer them
one at a time to the boarding ship I believe. Add in how small the faction is compared to how many ships full of crew, it kinda breaks the fantasy.

Third, I see other ships I don't recognize in the preview, but as I said, ORA is just using Behemoths and Eurekas. At that, NONE of the 'normal' AI factions seem to be using the new ships, but I'm assuming they need the resources to build them.

Those are my issues so far, just a balancing act. But don't get me wrong, this is a great mod, In fact I LOVE the homemade ships more like the Eureka and the Bayamon.

[sco1981]

Good news is that I already made the compatibility submod. Bad news is I need to check with SCO to make sure my changes matches his vision for the mod.

Lets talk on discord.

Hello,
So "Rise of the Ossian Raider" brought me back in to X4 it looked so nice, but I'm seeing a few problems.

This is with the MK1 fleet mod.
So foremost, the Ossians feel WAY overtuned. The other factions can't keep up. They're just sending hordes of Behemoths, supported by Eurekas, at anything that stands.
I try to fight back, but I can't catch enough of a break to actually make money, so with attrition all I have left is an Taranis MK3 that I put all my money in and a Eureka I found.
There are other destroyers of course, but I can't trust the NPC shipyards to have resources to maintain them, which wouldn't be a problem if my damn auto traders would do something other die to HOP or ORA.
But that last one is not your fault (still waiting one that sector blacklist Egosoft).

Second, Eurekas feel poorly balanced. The issues came to light over many frustrating boarding attempts. Most glaring is the hardpoints have to much shield and health it seems. My ships try to take them out but the 'primary' shields fall long
before a hardpoint can even be knocked out, and from there the target just gets destroyed. Next is I feel they are over crewed. A full veteran marine complement? Know how hard those are to get? Even if I got them all I'd have to transfer them
one at a time to the boarding ship I believe. Add in how small the faction is compared to how many ships full of crew, it kinda breaks the fantasy.

Third, I see other ships I don't recognize in the preview, but as I said, ORA is just using Behemoths and Eurekas. At that, NONE of the 'normal' AI factions seem to be using the new ships, but I'm assuming they need the resources to build them.

Those are my issues so far, just a balancing act. But don't get me wrong, this is a great mod, In fact I LOVE the homemade ships more like the Eureka and the Bayamon.

Thank you for your detailed feedback.
Find the balance is a long process, but i will reduce the shield count for the turret groups and reduce the used marines a bit. With the next version, it is possible to buy the new ships at another shipyard.
I will also reduce the count of the behemoth jobs a bit.
The Eureka is the "standard" ship, both others are flagships and will be build at the shipyards, if you activate one of the flagship addon mods.
The normal Factions should use the ships, if you activate the ror_ai mod. It takes some time.

[Shuulo]

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

[SpenzOT]

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

Capital ships are supposed to be powerful. The problem is that the largest vanilla ships, the carriers, are woefully undergunned and the supposed vanilla battleships like the behemoth are no more powerful than an M7 from X3. It makes your mod, which gives capital ships actual firepower, seem overpowered.

I have played probably 40 hours with your mod and the old battleship mod and observed many things. For one, ships like the P and the Cerberus are inadequate combat ships. They are too big and easily get destroyed by the L plasma cannons. The Xenon K is also a poor combatant 1v1 because their weapon is kind of unreliable. Sometimes it does a lot of damage but other times it does none. They are easy targets for the L plasma cannons

Your mod does however balance itself out in large fleet actions, where the turrets have many targets to hit. Large swarms of fighters overwhelm the CIWS and the cyclones, while if you get more than 3 K's, even an Arwan is in danger of destruction. Also, your mod is essential when going up against stations, since the vanilla weapons are absolutely terrible at anything even remotely close to effective damage. Even still, I found myself taking heavy losses against armed stations even with multiple Mk2 vessels.

If I had to make any suggestions for Mk3 balance, I would revert the xenon beam back into a projectile, remove if possible the frigates from the plasma cannon targeting list (to encourage the use of M particle cannons instead of just loading up on cyclones and CIWS), and slightly reduce the shield damage large weapons do. The Mk2/3 ships are not as overpowered as you may think they are. So long as their resource costs remain high they are a challenge but not invincible, which is exactly what makes your mod an essential for my endgame.

Of course this is just my opinion. I truly believe that VRO is mandatory at this point so I hope you can hash something out to make these mods all compatible.

[sco1981]

Version 1.1 Update:
- decreased factionlogic L and XL ships in mainmod
- adjusted shields and hull of new ships
- added new sector with new trader-faction, where you can buy all ships
- added factionlogic L and XL ships in mk1 and mk3 flagships mods
- fixed layouts of some ships
- removed Gate to Profit Center Alpha temporary
- adjusted mk3 ships
- added missing engine icons for some ships
- reduced weapon sound of XL main weapon (Xenon R and Eternal Dawn)
- added Headquarter and representativ guy to both factions

Ill do comp. patch after all your first pass on balance. As of now, I wonder how mk3 will work with VRO, as it makes ships with a lot of L weapons a bit more powerful than possible in vanilla.
Maybe I should implement patch only for mk1?

I think many peoples want to use your mod with both mk1 and mk3 variants. If you would support both variants, then this would be awesome.
A solution for more L turrets would be to reduce the hull size of these ships. So you got more firepower, but lost durability.

[turosp]

I played like 30 hours with ashipmod installed and I really liked it - thanks for creating it!

Now I tried a new start with ROR and there are a lot of enemy ships in every sector, at least 5-6 small ones, a few mediums and got a K in Hatikvah's Choice I, it was going rampant next to the highway. So, is this normal after like 20minutes in a freshly started game or something went wrong?

I use these mods at the moment which I think may affect the start:
- ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)
- ashipmod: main and AI (without the invasion mod)
- all four modules from Faction War/Economy Enhancer

Keep up the good work!

cheers
Nosayton

[Thecrippler]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

[Misunderstood Wookie]

I played like 30 hours with ashipmod installed and I really liked it - thanks for creating it!

Now I tried a new start with ROR and there are a lot of enemy ships in every sector, at least 5-6 small ones, a few mediums and got a K in Hatikvah's Choice I, it was going rampant next to the highway. So, is this normal after like 20minutes in a freshly started game or something went wrong?

I use these mods at the moment which I think may affect the start:
- ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)
- ashipmod: main and AI (without the invasion mod)
- all four modules from Faction War/Economy Enhancer

Keep up the good work!

cheers
Nosayton

Umm. what.
There is no AiShipmod AI or Main with ROR those mods are redundant and ROR was created with them built into the core main https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1705279348
Your only choice now is adding the MK1 AI module and if you want MK1 or MK3 ship variants and you may install both if desired.

[TSchmidtC]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

At the moment, fighting mechanics does not work in this game, the factions try to conquer sectors with construction ships and even defend themselves with construction ships.

[sco1981]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

[TSchmidtC]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

I am TSC3000 from Nexus and the Teladi / Xenon problem also affects the Argons, they do not build and send warships even though the shipyards have enough material and work.

[sco1981]

sco1981 i will like to say ty for your mod you did a excellent job but there is a small issues i notes in may game play argon are getting wrecked fast by the Ossian Raider and argon are not building the cap ships to fight back i have battleship mod and faction_fix + Rise of the Ossian Raider mod is there a option if you can look at argon mechanics you see i wanna stick to the vanilla game play but argon won't build cap ships

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

I am TSC3000 from Nexus and the Teladi / Xenon problem also affects the Argons, they do not build and send warships even though the shipyards have enough material and work.

I did not touch the other factions. Can you look at the shipyards queues, which ships are in there?
Maybe there is a bug in the factionlogic script. Can you try with mysterials faction enhancer please?

[TSchmidtC]

Got argon wrecked even with ROR version 1.1? There should a lot fewer invasion ships beeing built, but the old ones need to be destroyed first.
Did you looked at the shipyard, were all resources available?

You can try to use Mysterials faction enhancer, it would enhance all factions behavoir.

I am TSC3000 from Nexus and the Teladi / Xenon problem also affects the Argons, they do not build and send warships even though the shipyards have enough material and work.

I did not touch the other factions. Can you look at the shipyards queues, which ships are in there?
Maybe there is a bug in the factionlogic script. Can you try with mysterials faction enhancer please?

It's a problem of the game they behave that way even without mods. I watched the ORA invasion, the factions can not defend themselves. This has nothing to do with your mod.

I've tested it with faction War which causes many problems to be steered and evaded by the mod but the fighting gets faster so I'm waiting for the VRO patch to test it all together.

[turosp]

*

Umm. what.
There is no AiShipmod AI or Main with ROR those mods are redundant and ROR was created with them built into the core main https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1705279348
Your only choice now is adding the MK1 AI module and if you want MK1 or MK3 ship variants and you may install both if desired.

With "ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)" I definitly thought about this:
Submods (Default deactivated - can be activated in the game extensions menu):
- AI: known factions are using these ships <- I have this enabled
- flagships mk1: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have some capital ships <-- this not
- flagships mk3: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have many capital ships <-- this not

Bad wording from my side, sorry for that!

I have ashipmod installed because the freedom carriers in it are not mk1/mk3, as it is written by Sco here
"!!! Attention !!!
If you use ashipmod, then you should deactivate the AI and flagship mods of ashipmod.
If you want to get rid of ashipmod, just sell your mk2 ships and buy the new mk1 or mk3 ships of this mod."

Aaand, that's why I wrote Sco, I do not know whether this partly redundancy is the root of so many enemy ships after 20 minutes in a fresh game or this is intended and I have to get used to it.

[Misunderstood Wookie]

*

Umm. what.
There is no AiShipmod AI or Main with ROR those mods are redundant and ROR was created with them built into the core main https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1705279348
Your only choice now is adding the MK1 AI module and if you want MK1 or MK3 ship variants and you may install both if desired.

With "ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)" I definitly thought about this:
Submods (Default deactivated - can be activated in the game extensions menu):
- AI: known factions are using these ships <- I have this enabled
- flagships mk1: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have some capital ships <-- this not
- flagships mk3: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have many capital ships <-- this not

Bad wording from my side, sorry for that!

I have ashipmod installed because the freedom carriers in it are not mk1/mk3, as it is written by Sco here
"!!! Attention !!!
If you use ashipmod, then you should deactivate the AI and flagship mods of ashipmod.
If you want to get rid of ashipmod, just sell your mk2 ships and buy the new mk1 or mk3 ships of this mod."

Aaand, that's why I wrote Sco, I do not know whether this partly redundancy is the root of so many enemy ships after 20 minutes in a fresh game or this is intended and I have to get used to it.

Either you can run both but disable the Ashipmod AI and Flagship modules 'balanced or battleship version as you never run both!)
is what SCO means, but I took what SCO said about disabling the AIShipmod modules as to mean if you had AShipmod installed before ROR you had to disable the Ashipmod modules and kill off the flagships in your save to get ROR to work correct.

[sco1981]

Umm. what.
There is no AiShipmod AI or Main with ROR those mods are redundant and ROR was created with them built into the core main https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1705279348
Your only choice now is adding the MK1 AI module and if you want MK1 or MK3 ship variants and you may install both if desired.

With "ROR: main and AI (without the invasion mods)" I definitly thought about this:
Submods (Default deactivated - can be activated in the game extensions menu):
- AI: known factions are using these ships <- I have this enabled
- flagships mk1: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have some capital ships <-- this not
- flagships mk3: invasions of Xenon R and Ossian Raider flagships - you should have many capital ships <-- this not

Bad wording from my side, sorry for that!

I have ashipmod installed because the freedom carriers in it are not mk1/mk3, as it is written by Sco here
"!!! Attention !!!
If you use ashipmod, then you should deactivate the AI and flagship mods of ashipmod.
If you want to get rid of ashipmod, just sell your mk2 ships and buy the new mk1 or mk3 ships of this mod."

Aaand, that's why I wrote Sco, I do not know whether this partly redundancy is the root of so many enemy ships after 20 minutes in a fresh game or this is intended and I have to get used to it.

Either you can run both but disable the Ashipmod AI and Flagship modules 'balanced or battleship version as you never run both!)
is what SCO means, but I took what SCO said about disabling the AIShipmod modules as to mean if you had AShipmod installed before ROR you had to disable the Ashipmod modules and kill off the flagships in your save to get ROR to work correct.

Right.
If you start a new game, all ships of the jobs (vanilla and mod jobs), which have startactive = true (most ones) spawn at a fresh game start.
So it is normal, that you see so many ships around.
But if you want to start with a fresh game, i would advise to deactive all ashipmod' mods.

[turosp]

Either you can run both but disable the Ashipmod AI and Flagship modules 'balanced or battleship version as you never run both!)
is what SCO means, but I took what SCO said about disabling the AIShipmod modules as to mean if you had AShipmod installed before ROR you had to disable the Ashipmod modules and kill off the flagships in your save to get ROR to work correct.

Right.
If you start a new game, all ships of the jobs (vanilla and mod jobs), which have startactive = true (most ones) spawn at a fresh game start.
So it is normal, that you see so many ships around.
But if you want to start with a fresh game, i would advise to deactive all ashipmod' mods.

Okay, these answers clarify everything! Thank you, both of you!