[MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 7.2

[gibnieauf500]

So have removed the mod now and lo and behold as it goes again all the NPC deliver the shipyards

As I already said, it is impossible that this mod affected your situation. I don't know the circumstances of what you are reporting here but nothing I changed could affect that. I only edited a few of the jobs to add more ships (and I didn't even replace the whole file, just the few jobs I edited themselves which were only combat ships).

The other parts are related to skill training and random skilled npcs. None of that could cause what you are reporting.

But unfortunately it was so tested once with mod I have the problem again and then once without mod and no problems

[BlackRain]

So have removed the mod now and lo and behold as it goes again all the NPC deliver the shipyards

As I already said, it is impossible that this mod affected your situation. I don't know the circumstances of what you are reporting here but nothing I changed could affect that. I only edited a few of the jobs to add more ships (and I didn't even replace the whole file, just the few jobs I edited themselves which were only combat ships).

The other parts are related to skill training and random skilled npcs. None of that could cause what you are reporting.

But unfortunately it was so tested once with mod I have the problem again and then once without mod and no problems

I don't see how that could be possible. Try just deleting the jobs file in the folder instead of turning it off and see if the problem persists.

[Hoshiqua]

To answer your question, yes, I went through the jobs file of the mod and increased all the quotas to a huge figure. But now I understand that these quotas don't have the purpose I thought they had at all. I expected to see a lot more fleets overall, but no, they mostly increase the number of ships a faction will "want to have" per operation, right ?

Anyhow, I agree that more ships isn't really needed anymore. However, what I did notice is that factions stop building ships at a rather early point, and I think that's because they never really try anything big in their wars. I've actually never seen a faction try to invade another (establishing beachhead, build a station... as can be seen in the corresponding job file). Perhaps you should shift your attention towards making factions more (I'd say a LOT more but that's for me ) agressive instead of just increasing the number of ships per jobs ? Having all these ships does create more demand but if they're mostly assigned to defense they won't need to be rebuilt.

I'm not yet familiar with how ships are "supplied" to a faction operation (are they picked among existing ships ? Are all the needed ships built ? Both ?), so I may be talking nonsense

Also it'd be fun if you provided a version of the mod where all factions are at war with one another (when it doesn't break things of course. War between Ministry of finance and Teladi would be wierd). Just a thought

I've been using your mod in my savegame, and I can say that there are a lot of ships overall. I've never played 1.3.2 without it though so I don't know to what extent the mod is responsible for that. Nevertheless, thank you for your work.

[lavak9]

To answer your question, yes, I went through the jobs file of the mod and increased all the quotas to a huge figure. But now I understand that these quotas don't have the purpose I thought they had at all. I expected to see a lot more fleets overall, but no, they mostly increase the number of ships a faction will "want to have" per operation, right ?

Anyhow, I agree that more ships isn't really needed anymore. However, what I did notice is that factions stop building ships at a rather early point, and I think that's because they never really try anything big in their wars. I've actually never seen a faction try to invade another (establishing beachhead, build a station... as can be seen in the corresponding job file). Perhaps you should shift your attention towards making factions more (I'd say a LOT more but that's for me ) agressive instead of just increasing the number of ships per jobs ? Having all these ships does create more demand but if they're mostly assigned to defense they won't need to be rebuilt.

I'm not yet familiar with how ships are "supplied" to a faction operation (are they picked among existing ships ? Are all the needed ships built ? Both ?), so I may be talking nonsense

Also it'd be fun if you provided a version of the mod where all factions are at war with one another (when it doesn't break things of course. War between Ministry of finance and Teladi would be wierd). Just a thought

I've been using your mod in my savegame, and I can say that there are a lot of ships overall. I've never played 1.3.2 without it though so I don't know to what extent the mod is responsible for that. Nevertheless, thank you for your work.

Have not had time to test at length yet but check these edits out, it was a different game the last time I played with these changes: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=407887

[BlackRain]

To answer your question, yes, I went through the jobs file of the mod and increased all the quotas to a huge figure. But now I understand that these quotas don't have the purpose I thought they had at all. I expected to see a lot more fleets overall, but no, they mostly increase the number of ships a faction will "want to have" per operation, right ?

Anyhow, I agree that more ships isn't really needed anymore. However, what I did notice is that factions stop building ships at a rather early point, and I think that's because they never really try anything big in their wars. I've actually never seen a faction try to invade another (establishing beachhead, build a station... as can be seen in the corresponding job file). Perhaps you should shift your attention towards making factions more (I'd say a LOT more but that's for me ) agressive instead of just increasing the number of ships per jobs ? Having all these ships does create more demand but if they're mostly assigned to defense they won't need to be rebuilt.

I'm not yet familiar with how ships are "supplied" to a faction operation (are they picked among existing ships ? Are all the needed ships built ? Both ?), so I may be talking nonsense

Also it'd be fun if you provided a version of the mod where all factions are at war with one another (when it doesn't break things of course. War between Ministry of finance and Teladi would be wierd). Just a thought

I've been using your mod in my savegame, and I can say that there are a lot of ships overall. I've never played 1.3.2 without it though so I don't know to what extent the mod is responsible for that. Nevertheless, thank you for your work.

Have not had time to test at length yet but check these edits out, it was a different game the last time I played with these changes: viewtopic.php?f=146&t=407887

Yeah I am aware of this already. Been playing around with it from a while ago.

[Hoshiqua]

Went through my save and set a handful of relations to -1 and also made the Teladi hostile to the Paranid. I have no clue if that's okay lore wise but I don't care, all I want is action I'll report here how that goes, it might be of relevance (especially because I also set the moods of all big factions and Xenons to very high).

[BlackRain]

To answer your question, yes, I went through the jobs file of the mod and increased all the quotas to a huge figure. But now I understand that these quotas don't have the purpose I thought they had at all. I expected to see a lot more fleets overall, but no, they mostly increase the number of ships a faction will "want to have" per operation, right ?

Anyhow, I agree that more ships isn't really needed anymore. However, what I did notice is that factions stop building ships at a rather early point, and I think that's because they never really try anything big in their wars. I've actually never seen a faction try to invade another (establishing beachhead, build a station... as can be seen in the corresponding job file). Perhaps you should shift your attention towards making factions more (I'd say a LOT more but that's for me ) agressive instead of just increasing the number of ships per jobs ? Having all these ships does create more demand but if they're mostly assigned to defense they won't need to be rebuilt.

I'm not yet familiar with how ships are "supplied" to a faction operation (are they picked among existing ships ? Are all the needed ships built ? Both ?), so I may be talking nonsense

Also it'd be fun if you provided a version of the mod where all factions are at war with one another (when it doesn't break things of course. War between Ministry of finance and Teladi would be wierd). Just a thought

I've been using your mod in my savegame, and I can say that there are a lot of ships overall. I've never played 1.3.2 without it though so I don't know to what extent the mod is responsible for that. Nevertheless, thank you for your work.

Jobs can be used in many ways, it isn't just about increasing the quotas or number of ships. I can completely revamp jobs and create any kind of fleet or whatever I want.

[MrFisse]

Thanks a lot for this! Feel like uploading it to the nexus? Easier to keep track of updates etc. that way for us end users

[arknor1981]

with FOCW seems like no one fights just hangs around gates with the odd small ships attacking xenon or xenon bringing 1-3 ships through gates and not much else going on.


does the qoutas being higher mean they want more ships before they launch an assault? I decided to turn the mod off but some factions still had huge fleets doing nothing, I helped antigone by giving them resources to build ships which they were struggling with.
They launched one assault against HOP but were crazy outnumbered and never would attack no matter what even with 0 queues at their shipyards and loads of resources.

Khaak had like 100 ships just constantly hanging around their stations the whole game.

anyone else experienced the same? I've started a new game without focw to see if anythings improved. maybe some factions just had too many ships they would never lose and were over their qouta messing things up.

[BlackRain]

with FOCW seems like no one fights just hangs around gates with the odd small ships attacking xenon or xenon bringing 1-3 ships through gates and not much else going on.


does the qoutas being higher mean they want more ships before they launch an assault? I decided to turn the mod off but some factions still had huge fleets doing nothing, I helped antigone by giving them resources to build ships which they were struggling with.
They launched one assault against HOP but were crazy outnumbered and never would attack no matter what even with 0 queues at their shipyards and loads of resources.

Khaak had like 100 ships just constantly hanging around their stations the whole game.

anyone else experienced the same? I've started a new game without focw to see if anythings improved. maybe some factions just had too many ships they would never lose and were over their qouta messing things up.

I doubt this affected that. The ships added weren't that extreme. It could be that they evaluated the enemy and thought they were too strong but I increased each faction's ships by generally the same amount which wouldn't make it any different from Vanilla. Meaning, same percentage of ships for each will always be the same percentage of ships for each (if you catch my meaning)

[BlackRain]

Thanks a lot for this! Feel like uploading it to the nexus? Easier to keep track of updates etc. that way for us end users

Not at this time because most of this is just testing. I don't even know yet what I will do with it because the game includes its own war elements. I am taking a wait and see approach and there are still many things being fixed and new features added so I am not sure where to begin.

[viperg]

So after doing a bunch of testing and doing alot of personal mods, looks like a xenon invasion is impossible. You can get a psudeo like invasion, but it looks like the game has some sort of game balancer on all 3 gates where the xenon can invade.

The more defenders at the gate, the more attackers are allowed through.
If the gate has zero defenders, zero xenon ships come through, maybe just 1 single fighter maybe.

And in certain systems where parts are low (engine parts, smartchips) the shipyards and wharfs can get backed up and not produced ships fast enough and all defenders can die. (at least in my modded game where xenon are OP). IF you go through the warp gate, full xenon army on the other side just waiting.

The only psudeo invasion you can get is if a bunch of xenon come through at once, kill all the defenders, then make there way through the system. But these ships will eventually get widdled down or run into another big group of defenders then die off. In the meantime the gate has zero defenders so no NEW ships will come through hence no real invasion.

Pretty disappointing that the xenon are there just for looks and effect and no real danger is imminent.

[arknor1981]

I've seen xenon come through Hatikvah's Choice I when no one is defending.


I think the problem with the game is the AI just isn't aggressive enough and the AI is terrible at fighting, they pretty much float around in weird circles barely ever firing if they can't do strafing runs, at-least in my experience .

Xenon also invade in too few numbers they pretty much just send fodder fleets in to die even if they have a lot of ships sitting on the gate like you say.

Maybe combat AI improves with weapon mods that give more range but I haven't tested any because they all seem to rebalance the weapons or try to make something OP sounding, I think the weapon range is definitely an issue for the AI though and their aggression levels being that of pathetic cowards.

2x xenon destroyers can invade a system, I'm watching via satelite they just seem to fly around doing nothing but show boating whilst 1-2 ships slowly kill them, I bet if the AI trade ships fought back they could probably take out a xenon destroyer

[BlackRain]

There is code in place that has factions canceling invasions. This is dependent on the 'mood' of the faction but every faction has a point where they won't invade if they are just so much more powerful than the one they are invading. This of course can be changed.

[argon_emperor]

There is code in place that has factions canceling invasions. This is dependent on the 'mood' of the faction but every faction has a point where they won't invade if they are just so much more powerful than the one they are invading. This of course can be changed.

So... Unlimited Total War time? XD Is that an easy change to apply? Or does it required some rewriting of scripts? If it's just a simple xml edit somewhere I'm totally down for making that change and seeing how far we can push this >.>

[Sirilius]

The game feels like a gentlemen’s war. No one wants to do serious damage to each other because the economy would not be able to handle it. I mean it barely handles it now.

It would be akin to the different European countries going to war with one another now. Sure there’d be a large battle initially, but their economy relies on one another and the war would fizzle out.

I feel like to get a proper war going, each faction needs to be more aggressive at making their own economy self sufficient then they can really duke it out.

The game also lacks proper border sectors. Sectors which aren’t heavily built up between the factions. This will allow said sectors to be flipped between the factions during a war which would not end the economy of a fighting faction.

[BlackRain]

There is code in place that has factions canceling invasions. This is dependent on the 'mood' of the faction but every faction has a point where they won't invade if they are just so much more powerful than the one they are invading. This of course can be changed.

So... Unlimited Total War time? XD Is that an easy change to apply? Or does it required some rewriting of scripts? If it's just a simple xml edit somewhere I'm totally down for making that change and seeing how far we can push this >.>

It shouldn't be too difficult. You just need to edit the mood of factions in the faction scripts. I can put something together when I have time.

[arknor1981]

There is code in place that has factions canceling invasions. This is dependent on the 'mood' of the faction but every faction has a point where they won't invade if they are just so much more powerful than the one they are invading. This of course can be changed.

ahh thanks found it

Testing changing the relative strength in
FactionGoal_Invade_Space
FactionGoal_Hold_Space
left the time they have to prepare invasions etc and everything else the same

$MinimumStrengthFactor - the minimum strength relative to the known enemy strength. if this faction is this much weaker than the enemy, the invasion will be cancelled
$MaximumStrengthFactor - the maximum strength relative to the known enemy strength. if this faction is this much stronger than the enemy, no other ships will be requested
$MinimumStrength - the minimum strength value to begin the invasion, regardless of intel-->

<do_if value="$Mood == moodlevel.verylow">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="1.0f"/> (from 1.2)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.1f"/> (from 1.3)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.low">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.9f"/> (from 1.1)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.0f"/> (from 1.3)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.normal">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.8f"/> (from 1.0)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.2f"/> (from 1.4)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.high">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.7f"/> (from 0.9)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.4f"/> (from 1.

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.veryhigh">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.6f"/> (from 0.
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.6f"/> (from 2.0)

Ran seta for 15 real life minutes on an old save I stopped playing because galaxy had no wars and the following started to happen.
Guess I changed them in the correct direction because khaak instantly started attacking a station in the pious mist sector they share with one of the sub factions.
Xenon started trying to invade from the top right corner of the map matrix systems to telardi space I believe.
Xenon also had small ships roaming around harrasing people like how they do at a game start,
Antigone through a few ships against the insanely big hop fleet on their border.
SCA started spamming laser towers around the map in various sectors.

Maybe it's worth to change subordinate strength also
<set_value name="$ShipStrengthTable" exact="table[
{class.ship_xl} = 13,
{class.ship_l} = 7,
{class.ship_m} = 3,
{class.ship_s} = 1]"/>

<set_value name="$SubordinateStrengthTable" exact="table[
{class.ship_xl} = 11,
{class.ship_l} = 5,
{class.ship_m} = 2,
{class.ship_s} = 0]"/>

Why is subordinate strength of each ship less than ship strength table? I don't understand it surely XL ship is XL ship and should be worth the same or only 1 less at most


I'm just playing around changing the values for my own enjoyment until FOCW or the devs properly adjust things.
Right now the games war is way to stale as vanilla

[draugar77]

There is code in place that has factions canceling invasions. This is dependent on the 'mood' of the faction but every faction has a point where they won't invade if they are just so much more powerful than the one they are invading. This of course can be changed.

ahh thanks found it

Testing changing the relative strength in
FactionGoal_Invade_Space
FactionGoal_Hold_Space
left the time they have to prepare invasions etc and everything else the same

$MinimumStrengthFactor - the minimum strength relative to the known enemy strength. if this faction is this much weaker than the enemy, the invasion will be cancelled
$MaximumStrengthFactor - the maximum strength relative to the known enemy strength. if this faction is this much stronger than the enemy, no other ships will be requested
$MinimumStrength - the minimum strength value to begin the invasion, regardless of intel-->

<do_if value="$Mood == moodlevel.verylow">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="1.0f"/> (from 1.2)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.1f"/> (from 1.3)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.low">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.9f"/> (from 1.1)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.0f"/> (from 1.3)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.normal">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.8f"/> (from 1.0)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.2f"/> (from 1.4)

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.high">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.7f"/> (from 0.9)
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.4f"/> (from 1.

<do_elseif value="$Mood == moodlevel.veryhigh">
<set_value name="$MinimumStrengthFactor" exact="0.6f"/> (from 0.
<set_value name="$MaximumStrengthFactor" exact="1.6f"/> (from 2.0)

Ran seta for 15 real life minutes on an old save I stopped playing because galaxy had no wars and the following started to happen.
Guess I changed them in the correct direction because khaak instantly started attacking a station in the pious mist sector they share with one of the sub factions.
Xenon started trying to invade from the top right corner of the map matrix systems to telardi space I believe.
Xenon also had small ships roaming around harrasing people like how they do at a game start,
Antigone through a few ships against the insanely big hop fleet on their border.
SCA started spamming laser towers around the map in various sectors.

So mood level is something like aggression level? Is this related to the standing to another faction or the general mood factor? And what takes influence to change this value?

[BlackRain]

No, the mood is a setting for each faction. Their mood doesn't change. It determines how aggressive and such each faction is, also how they invade. Some factions will be very aggressive but commit very few ships, some will commit a lot of ships but not be very aggressive, etc.