Concerning X4

General discussions about X Rebirth.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

Alandauron
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue, 21. Mar 17, 17:24
x4

Post by Alandauron » Tue, 11. Apr 17, 23:53

linolafett wrote:I got the lovely task of taking care of the UI in X4...
Sweet! Now we know who to blame when we hate everything about it ;)

Honestly I feel for you in your task, making the UI is often one of the most difficult things to do in a game. Even if you please the majority there will always be someone(or a group of someones) that thinks it's terrible and will have all these "amazing" suggestions on how it could have been improved. Good luck my friend!

User avatar
BigBANGtheory
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun, 23. Oct 05, 12:13
x4

Post by BigBANGtheory » Sun, 16. Apr 17, 22:48

Man of my word, prior to the cheese topping :P
Image

CommanderTM
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon, 20. May 13, 09:18
xr

Post by CommanderTM » Mon, 17. Apr 17, 11:52

Thank you linolafett for letting us know and getting feedback! I also have few ideas that would help a lot with making ship buying and refitting easier.

1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen. If i want to have specific loadout and drone counts on my mining vessel i should not be forced to enter it every time i buy one. I could just select one blueprint from dropdown menu and click buy. Creating ablueprint can be done with a "create blueprint" button at the last screen where you also click buy. Some input box opens up and you type in the name and it is saved. Deleting could be done after selecting blueprint and just hitting delete blueprint button.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying. If i want to buy 10 capships with specific loadout i could just select the blueprint and enter the number i want to buy and click the button.

Good luck! :)

linolafett
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 3321
Joined: Mon, 26. Mar 12, 14:57
x4

Post by linolafett » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 09:46

CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.
Both cases are taken care of :)
The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint
01001100 01101001 01101110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101001 01101101 01100101 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110

My art stuff

Cucumber King
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu, 15. Dec 05, 11:13
x3

Post by Cucumber King » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 19:07

Not going for an RTS like element seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

Fleet management becomes much easier when it moves from the 2D sector map to an actual Homeworld-like view. This would lend itself very well for end-game fleet/asset managment and would show the true scope of battles then fought. Think mouse dragging, drag & dropping for cargo, much more intuitive movement in 3D space and quick RTS like orders.

Sure, realism is at odds here but it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume that a future technology could simulate a real-time sector in a 3D VR environment that a user can interact with.

Here is a video from the Limit Theory prototype that shows an RTS-like environment:

https://youtu.be/ilg8azR2JK8?t=40

The ship cockpits are indeed immersive, but once you are in a capital ship you want to control the sector - and seeing recent VR developments, simulations of ones surroundings aren't a far fetched thought.

If you truly want to cast aside the menu mess of in-sector asset management, this is likely the most intuitive way to do it.

I hope you strongly consider the implementation of a view like this if we are indeed able to control fleets in X4, or create complex space empires.

User avatar
Ketraar
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 11741
Joined: Fri, 21. May 04, 17:15
x4

Post by Ketraar » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 19:34

I sure hope not. X is NOT an RTS, even though RTS is my favourite genre, cramming different genres in one game of the likes of X is hardly going to work. As I said before, if you have a "tactical room" of sorts sure, but focus on the first person aspect and the economic simulation first, thanks.

MFG

Ketraar

User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 8549
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 20:43

RTS interface will not make X4 the RTS game. There is plenty of games that use RTS interface but are not - like RPG, MOBA, Shooters.

The old Battlezone 2 was my favorite you command your base and forces via RTS interface and then hop in to FPP to take a walk as infantry or into your hover tank to go into battle.

RTS interface can only improve X4 experience, but will to takover it's soul core gameplay.

CommanderTM
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon, 20. May 13, 09:18
xr

Post by CommanderTM » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 21:51

linolafett wrote:
CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.
Both cases are taken care of :)
The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint
Thanks for the info. Good to know! Cant wait for the game.

And yeah, by blueprints i meant list of weapons, shields and missles and drones and stuff like that. Just like the XR.

Cucumber King
Posts: 867
Joined: Thu, 15. Dec 05, 11:13
x3

Post by Cucumber King » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 22:28

When you are at the stage of flying a capital ship you will manage a lot. Quickly zooming out into the in-game sector and selecting and commanding a group of ships will be faster and more intuitive than going over a 2D map + visually more appealing. It would also send a true signal as to how the game scales.

Late stage empires have always been juggling through menus, but at least in-sector this could be a lot easier. Large fleet combat in X games has always been more RTS like than anything. This could be further refined and explored in X4.

The X-Series would lend itself perfectly to combining first person with a tactial RTS view, giving players more choice. It would also be a differentiator when comparing it to games like Star Citizen, where RTS elements are infeasible.

X:Rebirth dodged the capital ship question by barring players from command. The answer however lies in creating a more fun, intuitive and streamlined command experience that rewards those who choose to have a squadron or fleet. Of course an empire builder with engagements over vast sectors could benefit from a modern tactical view that engages more than a 2D map.

User avatar
BigBANGtheory
Posts: 3167
Joined: Sun, 23. Oct 05, 12:13
x4

Post by BigBANGtheory » Wed, 19. Apr 17, 23:47

Ketraar wrote:I sure hope not. X is NOT an RTS, even though RTS is my favourite genre, cramming different genres in one game of the likes of X is hardly going to work. As I said before, if you have a "tactical room" of sorts sure, but focus on the first person aspect and the economic simulation first, thanks.
Ketraar is correct in his appraisal imho, X Universe needs to encorporate and integrate RTS elements not become an RTS genre focused game. To do so would compromise the space sim. I think Egosoft understand this and have us covered... The key to all this is to remember that since X3 we have had RTS gameplay in the later game stages all we are really saying is support that gameplay and UX properly and in a way that makes sense.

The way I think of it is allowing the player to expand and be supported by the game mechanics in that expansion. So Space Sim is very much dominant at the start and mid game phases with more tactical and strategic elements coming in later and by player choice. The killer feature imho is to create an environment is which the players economic success in the space sim allows them to expand... so economy can still be the root and key to X Universe it is the motive and justification for choice in the later stages based upon your success. It maybe for example that you do not build you own fleet and manage it yourself rather you buy it in as a service from a faction.

User avatar
mr.WHO
Posts: 8549
Joined: Thu, 12. Oct 06, 17:19
x4

Post by mr.WHO » Thu, 20. Apr 17, 17:29

linolafett wrote:
CommanderTM wrote: 1. Blueprints. It would be awesome if we could have blueprint dropdown at ship buy screen and refitting screen.

2. Ship count at final dialog on ship buying.
Both cases are taken care of :)
The loadout can be understood as a list of upgrades on a selected ship. These loadouts can be saved and edited and are avaliable every time you buy a ship.

EDIT: clarified loadout != blueprint
Blueprint/loadout in X4 is a great news, but what about crew recruitment/management? This one is a nightmare in XR late games.
I'd love to include crew of specific skills to the blueprint even if it would mean I would have to pay more for crew than in classic recruitment.

linolafett
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 3321
Joined: Mon, 26. Mar 12, 14:57
x4

Post by linolafett » Fri, 21. Apr 17, 10:27

Crew management will be changed compared to rebirth. Its still to early to be able to say a lot about it. Stuff will still still change.
It wount be as tedious as it was in xr.
01001100 01101001 01101110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101001 01101101 01100101 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110

My art stuff

CommanderTM
Posts: 567
Joined: Mon, 20. May 13, 09:18
xr

Post by CommanderTM » Fri, 21. Apr 17, 20:03

linolafett wrote:Crew management will be changed compared to rebirth. Its still to early to be able to say a lot about it. Stuff will still still change.
It wount be as tedious as it was in xr.
Good news just keep coming :) Nice... Any more improvements you could tell us that we have not asked about? :roll:

linolafett
EGOSOFT
EGOSOFT
Posts: 3321
Joined: Mon, 26. Mar 12, 14:57
x4

Post by linolafett » Mon, 24. Apr 17, 14:39

I try to not reveal everything at once.
If is see a thing where i can say somethething, ill try to. I many cases i have to just watch you speculate, as features are not fully fleshed out/defined and talking about this stuff will probably end badly for me ;)
01001100 01101001 01101110 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01110100 01101001 01101101 01100101 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110

My art stuff

Lord Crc
Posts: 529
Joined: Sun, 29. Jan 12, 13:28
x4

Post by Lord Crc » Mon, 24. Apr 17, 19:40

Hopefully you'll finally fix managers actually managing.

Sending a L-class freighter with 217 food rations from a production station filled to the brim to a target station that has a buy offer for several thousand food rations is just infuriating to watch.

User avatar
sd_jasper
Posts: 345
Joined: Mon, 25. Jan 16, 00:44
x4

Post by sd_jasper » Tue, 25. Apr 17, 00:28

As someone who has worked as a designer for a couple of large game studios, I still don't get the secrecy surrounding game development. Sure there is something to be said about marketing momentum, and managing expectations (especially with the amount of content and features that any game has cut).

But on the other hand, many games are now developed very openly, and I think that has added to the fan commitment of those games. Look at Minecraft which basically set the model for "early access" before that was a thing. Many of the key features that game has today were created based on user feedback. IMO, Minecraft owes much of its success to the fans that help shape it.

Now, I know that X fans don't all agree... to put it mildly. But, I think that a more open development environment can help the set player expectations and build excitement for the next game.

P.S. I don't mean to imply that Ego is not one of the more open game developers, because I do think they are. I just feel that the whole industry is too far on the secretive side of the scale, and that all companies could do with more openness.

Post Reply

Return to “X Rebirth Universe”