I am struggling to understand why SETA has been implemented in X Rebirth, I understand SETA, in previous games was there to help travelling long distances with very slow ships, but now SETA have been reversed and can only be enabled while stationary.
My first impression is that it will be a lot easier and quicker to reach an end game position, bringing the old problem of lack of end game options, and the consequent implementation of content with a massive amount of grinding that will only be possible to complete using SETA, instead of further development of the X Universe locations and characters.
Why is SETA back?
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Santi
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Why is SETA back?
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Snafu_X3
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Re: Why is SETA back?
I don't understand; IME X:R's SETA works whether stationary or not, whether docked (to a station or capship) or not..santi wrote:in previous games was there to help travelling long distances with very slow ships, but now SETA have been reversed and can only be enabled while stationary.
Wiki X:R 1st Tit capping
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.
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DxDiag
Wiki X3:TC vanilla: Guide to generic missions, Guide to finding & capping Aran
Never played AP; all X3 advice is based on vanilla+bonus pack TC or before: AP has not changed much WRT general advice.
I know how to spell teladiuminumiumium, I just don't know when to stop!
Dom (Wiki Moderator)
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MAUCorp
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Gligli
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Tamina
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It works surprisingly good and is very smooth but I don't get it either.
Has someone asked for SETA or is this just a try from Egosoft to lure old fans back?
Has someone asked for SETA or is this just a try from Egosoft to lure old fans back?
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Terre
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I see it as retrograde step, pandering to impatience.I am struggling to understand why SETA has been implemented in X Rebirth
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pref
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A5PECT
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SETA does seem very counter to what Egosoft claims to be working towards in XR: keeping the player continuously engaged in active gameplay, and future-proofing the engine.
SETA in the original series was introduced because it was tenable at the time, but quickly became a burden on performance as the engine was expanded.
SETA in the original series was introduced because it was tenable at the time, but quickly became a burden on performance as the engine was expanded.
Last edited by A5PECT on Tue, 24. Nov 15, 14:19, edited 1 time in total.
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CBJ
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Let me explain a little of the thinking behind SETA in XR because, as Bernd explained some time ago, this was not something we particularly wanted to include in the game, for various reasons. In previous X series games SETA had two distinct uses: to speed up travel between widely-spaced locations, and to speed up things things like building and production.
Regarding the first use, travel is an important part of the game and helps to immerse the player in the game universe. We recognise, however, that while it is essential early in the game to get the player exploring, it can also get boring after a while if there is nothing to do other than look at the scenery when you are traveling between two familiar locations. We therefore also recognise that ways to speed up travel are necessary.
In previous X series games SETA was one way to achieve this but not, we believe, the most desirable one. In XR, therefore, we have tried to provide alternatives to SETA to speed up travel. The highways, boosting, and now the jump drive, are all means to get from A to B more quickly, without needing to resort to SETA. In general we believe we have achieved what we set out to do for this case, but we also understand that there are some players, and some situations, where people really do just want the time spent flying from one key location to another to be quicker, so for these people SETA is another tool in the toolbox. This is very much a secondary usage of SETA as far as we are concerned. Nobody is obliged to use it this way, but it's there if they want it.
The primary reason for implementing SETA in XR is for late-game empire-builders. Early in the game, it is great to watch your first station being constructed in real time, or the production cycles of your first factory producing goods. Over time, however, the immersion factor of watching this happen can dwindle for some people, and players who are working on a much larger scale can get frustrated with the time it takes. It is for these people that we've really added the feature. This is also one reason that we've made SETA reasonably difficult to obtain; it means that new players are less likely to spoil their early experience of the game, while more advances users can make the choice. Again, it is entirely optional, so if it doesn't appeal to you for whatever reason then you're free not to use it.
Everyone plays these games differently, so while some people don't need or want SETA, for others it can really improve their experience of the game.
In terms of the technicalities, SETA just speeds up the passage of time, as it did in previous games. Of course the problem here is that we can speed up the time in the game by a factor of six, but we can't do the same to the processor in your PC! While some things, such as the rendering of the graphics you see on the screen, can simply "skip" the extra time, that doesn't apply to all the game's internal systems, so accelerating time will affect performance and there is a limit to how much it can be accelerated. Both "skipping" and "not skipping" come with their own trade-offs. Process that can skip to keep up with the accelerated time can end up missing important things happening, while those that can't skip have the potential to slow the game down excessively under time acceleration. Which systems do what is not something I will go into detail about, but suffice it to say that it's quite complicated!
Having said that, for those worried that we are putting time into a feature they don't want to use, this is not something we've spent months on just to get this feature working. The ability to speed up time within the game is a facility that has always been available to developers, as it's a useful tool when working on and testing certain features. The additional work that has gone into this has been in providing an interface, a means to obtain SETA, and tweaking it a little to work how players, rather than developers, need it work.
Regarding the limitations of where SETA can and cannot be used, I'm not sure where the OP got the idea that you can't use it while moving. The conditions under which SETA is not available or which will stop it if it's active are:
• You are on a platform or otherwise away from your pilot seat.
• You are in a conversation or menu.
• You receive an important event on your event monitor.
• Your ship is attacked.
• You fire a weapon or activate a scanner.
• Your jump drive is charging or active.
• You steer hard in any direction.
• You stop your ship suddenly using the stop key (Backspace by default).
• Your ship is in close proximity to another object (except when autopilot is active).
• You collide with something (whether autopilot is active or not).
TL;DR version: It's primarily been added for late-game players who want to speed up their empire building. If you don't want to use it, don't!
Regarding the first use, travel is an important part of the game and helps to immerse the player in the game universe. We recognise, however, that while it is essential early in the game to get the player exploring, it can also get boring after a while if there is nothing to do other than look at the scenery when you are traveling between two familiar locations. We therefore also recognise that ways to speed up travel are necessary.
In previous X series games SETA was one way to achieve this but not, we believe, the most desirable one. In XR, therefore, we have tried to provide alternatives to SETA to speed up travel. The highways, boosting, and now the jump drive, are all means to get from A to B more quickly, without needing to resort to SETA. In general we believe we have achieved what we set out to do for this case, but we also understand that there are some players, and some situations, where people really do just want the time spent flying from one key location to another to be quicker, so for these people SETA is another tool in the toolbox. This is very much a secondary usage of SETA as far as we are concerned. Nobody is obliged to use it this way, but it's there if they want it.
The primary reason for implementing SETA in XR is for late-game empire-builders. Early in the game, it is great to watch your first station being constructed in real time, or the production cycles of your first factory producing goods. Over time, however, the immersion factor of watching this happen can dwindle for some people, and players who are working on a much larger scale can get frustrated with the time it takes. It is for these people that we've really added the feature. This is also one reason that we've made SETA reasonably difficult to obtain; it means that new players are less likely to spoil their early experience of the game, while more advances users can make the choice. Again, it is entirely optional, so if it doesn't appeal to you for whatever reason then you're free not to use it.
Everyone plays these games differently, so while some people don't need or want SETA, for others it can really improve their experience of the game.
In terms of the technicalities, SETA just speeds up the passage of time, as it did in previous games. Of course the problem here is that we can speed up the time in the game by a factor of six, but we can't do the same to the processor in your PC! While some things, such as the rendering of the graphics you see on the screen, can simply "skip" the extra time, that doesn't apply to all the game's internal systems, so accelerating time will affect performance and there is a limit to how much it can be accelerated. Both "skipping" and "not skipping" come with their own trade-offs. Process that can skip to keep up with the accelerated time can end up missing important things happening, while those that can't skip have the potential to slow the game down excessively under time acceleration. Which systems do what is not something I will go into detail about, but suffice it to say that it's quite complicated!
Having said that, for those worried that we are putting time into a feature they don't want to use, this is not something we've spent months on just to get this feature working. The ability to speed up time within the game is a facility that has always been available to developers, as it's a useful tool when working on and testing certain features. The additional work that has gone into this has been in providing an interface, a means to obtain SETA, and tweaking it a little to work how players, rather than developers, need it work.
Regarding the limitations of where SETA can and cannot be used, I'm not sure where the OP got the idea that you can't use it while moving. The conditions under which SETA is not available or which will stop it if it's active are:
• You are on a platform or otherwise away from your pilot seat.
• You are in a conversation or menu.
• You receive an important event on your event monitor.
• Your ship is attacked.
• You fire a weapon or activate a scanner.
• Your jump drive is charging or active.
• You steer hard in any direction.
• You stop your ship suddenly using the stop key (Backspace by default).
• Your ship is in close proximity to another object (except when autopilot is active).
• You collide with something (whether autopilot is active or not).
TL;DR version: It's primarily been added for late-game players who want to speed up their empire building. If you don't want to use it, don't!
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pref
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Senner
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Imo they could have implemented SETA more creatively. For instance in special regions where time is accelerated or missions to obtain time travelling devices. I think that since so many players are either for or against SETA, some sort of halfway implementation to achieve a compromise would be the best solution.
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birdtable
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Sorry to disagree entirely with pref
The one thing SETA would have been good for is to zip through endless conversations ...... not possible
Why travel highways when you have a jumpdrive.
How does it speed up Empire building when there is so much micro management/problem solving....?
SETA may be good for those that edit in a few billion and want instant gratification.
I understand that SETA is an easy adaptation to the game, it was present when the game was being developed and it is optional but disappointed to see the need for it's return.
The one thing SETA would have been good for is to zip through endless conversations ...... not possible
Why travel highways when you have a jumpdrive.
How does it speed up Empire building when there is so much micro management/problem solving....?
SETA may be good for those that edit in a few billion and want instant gratification.
I understand that SETA is an easy adaptation to the game, it was present when the game was being developed and it is optional but disappointed to see the need for it's return.
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Ezarkal
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Informer
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+1birdtable wrote:Sorry to disagree entirely with pref
The one thing SETA would have been good for is to zip through endless conversations ...... not possible
Why travel highways when you have a jumpdrive.
How does it speed up Empire building when there is so much micro management/problem solving....?
SETA may be good for those that edit in a few billion and want instant gratification.
I understand that SETA is an easy adaptation to the game, it was present when the game was being developed and it is optional but disappointed to see the need for it's return.
Information is power. But like all power, there are those who want to keep it for themselves (Aaron Swartz you will live forever)
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BigBANGtheory
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I think what is important is that Egosoft recognises a cause of gameplay frustration and provides a solution.
Mid to late game travelling = Jump Drive
construction and delivery times = SETA
command & control = <work in progress> for next game
3D visualisation = Holomap v1
pilot aids = cockpit radar
To my mind SETA also paves the way for less highways, to this day I'm not convinced about highways.
Mid to late game travelling = Jump Drive
construction and delivery times = SETA
command & control = <work in progress> for next game
3D visualisation = Holomap v1
pilot aids = cockpit radar
To my mind SETA also paves the way for less highways, to this day I'm not convinced about highways.
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mr.WHO
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Eriodas
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I'm just happy to have more options into the game.
Options are good and not an obligation, the lack of options means that you are in the obligation to use just 1 method of doing things, which is bad for any sandbox.
Please continue giving us more options, but without replacing others. There may be some people that likes to do things like they were before (even if it's difficult to imagine).
Options are good and not an obligation, the lack of options means that you are in the obligation to use just 1 method of doing things, which is bad for any sandbox.
Please continue giving us more options, but without replacing others. There may be some people that likes to do things like they were before (even if it's difficult to imagine).
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birdtable
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pref
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@birdtable:
You disagree that im happy to have SETA? Sounds pretty funny
Dont use it, problem solved.
You just whine about something that does no harm to you actually.
Also SETA has nothing to do with save editing, or instant gratification. Maybe you messed up a few games of yours with seta abuse somehow, but that does not mean everyone can only use it like that.
Regarding conversations - anyone can disable those with mods completely, no need for seta there.
You disagree that im happy to have SETA? Sounds pretty funny
Dont use it, problem solved.
You just whine about something that does no harm to you actually.
Also SETA has nothing to do with save editing, or instant gratification. Maybe you messed up a few games of yours with seta abuse somehow, but that does not mean everyone can only use it like that.
Regarding conversations - anyone can disable those with mods completely, no need for seta there.