XR vs X4

General discussions about X Rebirth.

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Sam L.R. Griffiths
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Post by Sam L.R. Griffiths »

:o Keyboard only... are you nuts??? :P

Seriously though, IMO Analog inputs are an ESSENTIAL part of any proper 3D game (be it first person, third person, god's eye or Flight) and to limit yourself to digital only inputs (e.g. KBD) is hobbling yourself.

Typical expectations for a PC based game these days is at least KBD+MSE not just KBD. I have yet to play any X game without heavy use of the mouse (or other analog device) for flight or UI operation. With X2 I used a Logitech joystick and for the X3 games I used a Saitek dual-axis gamepad until Egosoft (IMO) screwed up generic gamepad support when adding proper support for the Xbox gamepad. After that point I switched to KBD+MSE which made the transition to X-Rebirth quite easy IMO. I am a fairly recent convert to the Saitek X52 Std HOTAS though and on the most part find I can configure it so I barely have to touch the KBD or MSE.
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Graaf
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Post by Graaf »

Playing X3 and flying ships with a slow turning rate is perfectly doable without ever using the mouse. Like Biotunga, I hardly use mine.

I actually consider X3's mouse support a bad move from X2.
birdtable
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Post by birdtable »

Well after reading through all comments for this topic I am no wiser on what the definition of X4 would be ...
I have played to excess all Ego's Sims and each one had limitations/frustrations for the player to overcome

I cannot see all or majority of the requested additions ever making it into the next game, either through time/ability/cost/desire/worth so what would be that one mystical experience that would define X4.....?

Or is it just a gateway to the old familiar Galaxy with your own trade ship..?
Slashman
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Post by Slashman »

@birdtable

The reason you can't pin down a definition of what an X4 would be is that there is no such thing as a clear definition of what a sequel game is.

It's just a number to denote that the developer is continuing the franchise.

What is pretty clear by now is that most people want back some feature(s) that were present in X3. Each person has greater emphasis on a different feature and that's not really unexpected since X games have a wide range of activities to engage in at different levels.

From my personal perspective, Rebirth did a number of things more poorly than X3, while improving on some things that weren't all that critical and completely ignoring others. The wider audience appeal attempt may or may not be to blame. I don't know.

What I do know is that with the new Steam refund option in place, the preorder rush fueled by hype is a lot less of a sure money earner. People are going to start to feel the weight of pushing out bad games.
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Gligli
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Post by Gligli »

Slashman wrote: a clear definition of what a sequel game is.
If I'm right, only X2 and XR don't have sequels (yet), as I mean it.
For me it's based on the engine used.
Slashman wrote:What I do know is that with the new Steam refund option in place, the preorder rush fueled by hype is a lot less of a sure money earner. People are going to start to feel the weight of pushing out bad games.
As the world evolve, its an mistake to not evolve with it or forget it... That said, XR was an exception an a test in regard of steam. Now, for the management (and comms?:D) it brings, its worth the change, imo. They still have choice for further accreditation and business plan, its not a jail.
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UniTrader
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Post by UniTrader »

Gligli wrote:
Slashman wrote: a clear definition of what a sequel game is.
If I'm right, only X2 and XR don't have sequels (yet), as I mean it.
For me it's based on the engine used.
well, you are wrong with that: the Sequel of X2 is X3R then, because it uses the same Engine in the background, its just the Graphics part that has been completely swapped, the Game logic is the same.. or better: the old Engine roots back to X-BtF. it just has evolved very much over the years.. and probably nobody unterstands the full code anymore.. (two example i read about on the Forums which are legacy from X-BtF or XT probably: the Price Calculation for NPCs is afaik commented with "Its magic" and nobody really understands how it works. Or there are always Groups of 3 Pirates coming from nowhere, even when you empty the jobs files completely in X3 or use an Ship-free Map in X2, and nobody knows where they come from)
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birdtable
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Post by birdtable »

@ Slashman ... The main problem with Rebirth is that Ego concentrated their efforts on the insignificant at the expense of the significant... Triviality/Frivolity ruled the day or was easier to implement and what appeared effective in a one hit experience quickly deteriorated on repeated actions.
The Space Sim genre is not and will never be a 4 to 6 hr gaming experience.

In my opinion.... :)
birdtable
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Post by birdtable »

@ UniTrader ... More evidence of the hand of GoD at work.... ( Or there are always Groups of 3 Pirates coming from nowhere, even when you empty the jobs files completely in X3 or use an Ship-free Map in X2, and nobody knows where they come from )
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Gligli
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Post by Gligli »

that's true. The step X2-X3 and the big differences IG always make me think wrong :)
I did the step too quickly back then...

[edit] time-shifting :)

That could effectively mean that the problem shall still in the trilogy :gruebel: Or it is attached to a not-reused-object(I'm OT)
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blotunga
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Post by blotunga »

I have a Joystick, but I never could get used to using it in the X series. Seriously I played from X2 to X3:AP everything with 99% keyboard only (it took me half a year until I found out that I could click on the minimap's corner to change x/y/z and that I can position stations with the mouse too.. I was using the keyboard for everything :D) . Using Auto-Aim it's perfectly fine.
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mangar
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Post by mangar »

For me I just want the fan base back, if a good game is made like the old X series people would be playing more than posting here. I miss the fan base making custom screen shots and funny satire pics for the threads.

I bought a new rig this past christmas, R just shuttered on FPS. so I played skyrim, I am running 275 mods out of 582 downloaded mods. Sure it can become a little unstable but it plays at 30-60 FPS. Rebirth loads and runs 15-25 FPS and shutters. I also turned down all the settings with no love for the results.

My hope is that the next one ES does is not so much a Memory and CPU hog and they make it where when the CPU is under load the FPS can adjust for load like some of the steam mods do it.

As stemmy once made a blog, devs need to be limited to a base line rig not that ES puts the software development out of reach from the average user or customer which does not have a $2,500 PC or laptop.

Something like if a rig can handle 10 enemy ships will be created, if under load the game will only create 5 enemy ships or a fog sliders or something.

Even a heavy loaded Skyrim my CPU fan does cycle down, while R just runs max none stop ...meaning unload do to bulk load = heat on PC.

I hope to see the trust come back and sure that it will if people can actually keep busy playing a game.

Just remember every one wants a hologram 3d PC, but we DO NOT HAVE THEM YET, just make the game that reaches a reasonable customer base for what they have with options for those that can crank the heat up on their own rigs.
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piep
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Post by piep »

"With a new rumor about possibility of new game I just want..."

citation needed.
A5PECT
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Post by A5PECT »

piep wrote:citation needed.
Rumor courtesy of moi.
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Gligli
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Post by Gligli »

mangar wrote: Rebirth loads and runs 15-25 FPS and shutters. I also turned down all the settings with no love for the results.
ime, changing resolution & co is relevant only in the "range" of your computer. I mean, that won't affect the issue. Though, you can replace your configuration at least to default, to not make you cry at each game loading :)

Here's what I posted in May regard to my method to avoid the performance issue; both used on Windows or Linux (very different machines)

Sine then, enhancement have been made, that I hope have helped... For me it's confusing, since a did change at that moment and won't play back on a dual-core(laptop) :D
mangar wrote:My hope is that the next one ES does is not so much a Memory and CPU hog and they make it where when the CPU is under load the FPS can adjust for load like some of the steam mods do it.
:o My!!!
Do you mean there's load balance mods already? I shall take a look on mod's forum a bit more often :oops:
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Ravenhurst
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Post by Ravenhurst »

X4... I like the sound of that. Would be great if they are really working on it.

The new engine they made for XR is great, could even be upgraded to DX12 on Win10, who knows? Good times ahead! (hopefully)

I highly recommend doing an Early Access program on Steam first.
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Post by Snafu_X3 »

They're not working towards DX12 (possibly due to licensing or simply that it's MS only); OpenGL is the preferred update
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piep
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Post by piep »

A5PECT wrote:
piep wrote:citation needed.
Rumor courtesy of moi.
thx.
slice&dice-em
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Post by slice&dice-em »

After having played XR for 100+ hours and having built a few stations the most pressing issues for me are :

1st more dynamic sectors like changing law enforements

2nd having a more dynamic faction relation along the lines of being able to see whether you have to do another "hard" diplo mission to improve relations between the 2 factions or see them deteriorate in 5 medium missions, ect...

3rd a pirate economy not just pure spawn

I´m quite happy with the performance of the lastest patch (even though i had to figure out some perceived glitches were only my fault...)

:idea:

I´d like to see space elevators from planet surfaces becus diving down to radiant heavens is awsome! Now guess what a "Jupiter Ascending" like decline into a gas gigant might look like. 8)

Yeah the economy seems bit stagnant but as previous posts allready hinted at: just knit the wares web a bit tighter and add 2 or 3 new wares ( i still don´t get it why energy cells don´t need "supercapacitors" as secondaries??).

The next thing others allready mentioned: space station ruins should be repairable as warez sinks! DV wreck stations look great but are pretty much scenery in a sandbox game: No demand at all???

For me some lanes are quite nice and building otherz into unexplored space`d be great (but a programmer`s nightmare me thinks).
Actually XR is quite big so i guess there is enough "space" allready. Some steamforums (?? cann´t remember where i read it) mentioned several "unused" sectors so why don´t repair wrecked jumpgates? Help a major faction repair it via researchstations???


Some suggestions... ur thoughts?
FlightJunkie
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Post by FlightJunkie »

-Unpopular. I want story mode. I like to be guided. What I disliked about all the previous entries in the X series is that not only they lack depth with many loose ends, but also they don't take advantage of the games' open universe. How about that? I would also like to see some decent 3D models with decent animation and better voice actors.

-Can we please have unique stuff? Like an experimental weapon/engine/component you found on a secret abandoned facility?

-Research and development. Found the afforementioned unique piece of experimental equipment? How about reverse engineer it on a research station, and developed it further? How about choose a research path and add different qualities to it? How about research and develop your own custom stuff? From engines to entire carriers. Now you can sell your own legitimate stuff. Choosing different research options to create equipement and ships that have different qualities, effects and/or performance. Then you can keep them to yourself or manufacture and sell them. Yes, editors.

-No more health. more emphasis on realistic damage on all ship sizes based on subsystems. Did your reactor has been ctitically damaged? oops. Did the magazines of your ballistic guns blew up. Double oops.

-Better crew feature. You don't hire individual crew members. You should hire a lead specialist with his crew. Engineering crew, Nav crew, gunnery crew, and then we have the individual captain. Each crew is better at some ships than others. A corvette Engineering crew might not be able to cope with a battleship, A cargo captain might not be able to command a frigate effectivelly during a fight and he might even choose to flee. Of course their experience will rise the more you use them on a ship type. captains should also have personalities with a combination of traits like brutal and dissobidient, coward, inspiring and brave. This will affect their strategy and decisions. Maybe crews will give buffs to your ships.

examples

Engineers +25% fuel/energy efficiency or +20% to speed

Navigators +10% to radar range or +30% scanning range and special ability stealth scan scanning a ship without permission without him noticing

Gunnery crew +15% accuracy against fighters or 10% damage output from main batteries

Captain increases crew skills by 20%

You get the point.

-Proper equipment screen. Jesus Christ! Is that so hard to do?! Why do we have to deal with lists?! Take some ques from Starlancer, freespace 2 and hell even mechwarrior 4. A visual layout of your ship with all available slots/hardpoints visible with drug and drop functionality. Simple.

-Hardpoints/slots That allow you to equip whatever you want. Want a rahanas with missile launchers instead of your typical repeaters? Why not. There should be various sizes of hardpoints. Ive devised a scheme. extra small, small, medium, large, extra large and superweapon hardpoints. These hardpoints are also seperated by type. Omni hardpoints are the only that can mount any type of weapon. The rest are known, missile, beam, torpedo, etc. This would allow you to build your own ship types.

-More varied and diverse weapon types. Laser, ballistic, ion, plasma, quandum, singularity, nuke, throw some more fictional stuff in there with various effects. Also, SUPERWEAPONS!
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Nikola515
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Post by Nikola515 »

I was just thinking..... I think it would be nice for X4 or XR2 to have first come first serve economy. And yes they should build AI that can actually do this and not what we have in XR.... :roll: Anyway this way there would be point of having small fast ships and large slow ships. At this point in XR ships with large cargo almost always wins(as long as area is safe). But with this there would be more risks, advantages and disadvantages. Smal ships can get there faster and get best deal but can't get a lot. But in the other hand large and slow ships can buy more but there is always chance that they won't get in time. I think this would be nice addition to economy. What does everyone else think about this ?
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