"Gamestar" Interview with Bernd

[marshb]

Then you missed the point of my post.

What I read from your post is

Egosoft is under no obligation to implement promised features and functions into the game, and that the after market crowd-sourcing, albeit voluntary, is heavily relied on by Egosoft, to help implement features, and solve obvious design flaws (Hence why the economy suddenly got fixed, sometime shortly after the Modder released his Economy fix)

I agree that no developer would be in their right mind to do such a thing, but it appears to be this exact way in this case.

Way to many "uncritical inferences". A bad release Is a different animal from the typical run of the mill release. Modders, getting there work "signed" and possibly credit, job offers, a feather in there resume, or freebies do not imply "business model" after a bad launch because thats suicidal if it happens consistently. We have no basis to say that is happening now. One bad release does not a business model make.

On the other hand, ignoring the modding community after a "great" launch would be doing themselves and the players a disservice especially if your looking to encourage interest and longevity in the hobby.

This is where you're wrong, Vanilla X games were always basic, however, had everything required to become much more complex. If you look at how the X games evolved, you'll quickly realize that it is how they conduct business, and as a result makes this their business model.

And I agree with you, just not this: "I agree that no developer would be in their right mind to do such a thing, but it appears to be this exact way in this case."

[Llothlian]

Perhaps it is me still having faith in Egosoft, but I doubt they intended for the mod community to fix anything.

[Pharoah]

Perhaps it is me still having faith in Egosoft, but I doubt they intended for the mod community to fix anything.

Just because they have no intent, like I'm sure they didn't in previous releases, doesn't mean they aren't relying on Modders to correct their shortcomings.

The modding community around here is extremely unselfish, extremely talented. This is where the problem is. Egosoft has gotten used to modders improving their game that it's almost an expectation of them, at least, that's what this release heavily suggests to me anyway.

[slimgrin]

So they're committed to it. Kinda sad. If it were me I'd have dusted my hands off and never looked back. Someone should point out to Bernd that the reason it sold so well initially, is due to the rep of Egosoft and X3. And a few fancy screen shots.

[yoyolll]

Either trolling or lost his mind. The stuff he says isn't even making sense anymore.

How so? Because you're unable to follow it? That's not a limitation on my end, sorry, you need to look closer to home to find where the real limitation is.

That was ambiguously worded. Didn't mean you, talking about lothlian. He's kinda lost his mind trying to come up with new defenses for the devs.

Jeez, everyone is so edgy and hostile.

[Slashman]

So they're committed to it. Kinda sad. If it were me I'd have dusted my hands off and never looked back. Someone should point out to Bernd that the reason it sold so well initially, is due to the rep of Egosoft and X3. And a few fancy screen shots.

One of the telling parts of the interview to me, is that while he brushes off what the core X fans may think, it is not mentioned why no official reviewers are taken with the game either.

Is every single review that got published biased against Egosoft and Rebirth?

There is no contrast between user and critic reviews on metacritic. No forum on the net has any wealth of supporters saying that Rebirth is a good game apart from this one.

It has dropped off the Steam top 100 games played. So where are all these people who thought the game was great? Shouldn't they still be playing? Bernd made a point that the people who weren't enjoying the game were a minority. Guess the majority isn't that big either...

[dumdumdum]

Yup, keep telling yourself that Bernd

http://steamcommunity.com/app/2870/revi ... r=toprated

The people mean nothing, as in your customers

O...M...G...

[Lyth]

As for the modability (don't think that's a word) being reduced; aren't we expecting proper modding tools to be released at some point? Have we been officially told that, or is it simply conjecture?

You are correct, no idea what happened to it, imagine it is just a front end but most things that can be modded have already been started on, the things we cannot change are here to stay.

I agree with you also on that the game was shipped as intended, bugs aside.

[Cougar81]

okay .. so take a moment and get Zenned.


1. this is not X4.

When you are able to hear the next part read on.


2. This is not X4.

It's Rebirth silly. It's more personal. It's more dymanic. It's more realistic. It has a lot of potential but not a lot of actual ... you know... substance. Give it time... it will be what we always wanted it to be. It just takes time.................... time the developer may not have

[Noimageavaiable]

They have implemented a lot of mods into the game in the past. Sector / Universal Traders, CAGs, Explorer software are three off the top of my head. That's great too! Huge complement to the modder, and proof / acknowledgement that Egosoft do not have a monopoly on good ideas.

Exactly, ever vanilla release of an X game was the very basic fundamental framework that the modding community could manipulate in such a way as to implement what appears to be entirely new features, which then later get implemented into the game officially.

It's this heavy reliability on modders in the past, coupled with the loss of modding abilities in Rebirth, that gives me a very grim prediction on the final outcome of this title.

I'm always appalled by peoples apparent acceptance of this Egosoft policy which is essentially just take a bunch of stuff others provided for free, then charge money for it. It is no acknowledgment of anything other than Egosoft's shamelessness, laziness and greed. Its like if Microsoft suddenly started taking Open-Source programs and selling them for $40 a piece.

[Lyth]

They have implemented a lot of mods into the game in the past. Sector / Universal Traders, CAGs, Explorer software are three off the top of my head. That's great too! Huge complement to the modder, and proof / acknowledgement that Egosoft do not have a monopoly on good ideas.

Exactly, ever vanilla release of an X game was the very basic fundamental framework that the modding community could manipulate in such a way as to implement what appears to be entirely new features, which then later get implemented into the game officially.

It's this heavy reliability on modders in the past, coupled with the loss of modding abilities in Rebirth, that gives me a very grim prediction on the final outcome of this title.

I'm always appalled by peoples apparent acceptance of this Egosoft policy which is essentially just take a bunch of stuff others provided for free, then charge money for it. It is no acknowledgment of anything other than Egosoft's shamelessness, laziness and greed. Its like if Microsoft suddenly started taking Open-Source programs and selling them for $40 a piece.

That one is a toughie, on the other hand Egosoft has always said they will respect the intellectual rights of script makers and not release things they create as part of the game without discussion. Would have to do a search to find the posts, Is lots on this topic on the XU forums and S&M sections, where people have collaborated with Egosoft and released content as part of the game in the next release (ie. Albion Prelude from TC Mods/Scripts and pretty sure all contributors did recieve money, have to ask them.)

[Pharoah]

They have implemented a lot of mods into the game in the past. Sector / Universal Traders, CAGs, Explorer software are three off the top of my head. That's great too! Huge complement to the modder, and proof / acknowledgement that Egosoft do not have a monopoly on good ideas.

Exactly, ever vanilla release of an X game was the very basic fundamental framework that the modding community could manipulate in such a way as to implement what appears to be entirely new features, which then later get implemented into the game officially.

It's this heavy reliability on modders in the past, coupled with the loss of modding abilities in Rebirth, that gives me a very grim prediction on the final outcome of this title.

I'm always appalled by peoples apparent acceptance of this Egosoft policy which is essentially just take a bunch of stuff others provided for free, then charge money for it. It is no acknowledgment of anything other than Egosoft's shamelessness, laziness and greed. Its like if Microsoft suddenly started taking Open-Source programs and selling them for $40 a piece.

That one is a toughie, on the other hand Egosoft has always said they will respect the intellectual rights of script makers and not release things they create as part of the game without discussion. Would have to do a search to find the posts, Is lots on this topic on the XU forums and S&M sections, where people have collaborated with Egosoft and released content as part of the game in the next release (ie. Albion Prelude from TC Mods/Scripts and pretty sure all contributors did recieve money, have to ask them.)

Oh yeah, the content isn't "Taken" and used without permission, but what modder wouldn't want something they have done to be implemented into a future release?

[Usenko]

Personally, if my content was used I'd be more likely to be chuffed than upset. YMMV.

[ragamer]

Ah... The subject of modding.

The line is very clear, at least for me.

A healthy Modding Community is the one that provides gameplay diversification to accomodate the variety of gamer tastes using a given product.

Over time certain mods evolve and become so popular that the vast mayority of the community uses them. At that point, is when a smart product owner will seek to integrate them into the game, but it's just a consequence of the "de facto" integration most of your playerbase is already doing.


On the above paragraph the important terms are:
- Diversification
- Over time
- Mayority


On the other side, if an owner wants "modders", from the beggining to generate features that affect ALL players we are speaking of a different mechanism here... Let me do a slight rephrase:

That owner relays on free manpower to provide features to a certain product without sharing the income generated by the improved product with the persons involved in such process...

...That has another name in a slightly different scenario...

...Slavery.

Do you want to support Digital Slavery?


I hope my english is not blurring the concepts...

...Modding and Patching are 2 different mechanisms, and ppl expecting one to replace the other just ignore how most Modding Communities born, evolve and establish relations with the Product Owner... This one is no exception and the line is very sharp...

...Mods provide options for different kind of players... Devs fix the gameplay for the mayority.

[Llothlian]

I love how we've gone from the initital obsurd idea that Egosoft are relying on modders to fix their game, to the utterly rediculous idea that Egosoft are the leaders of some sort of international digital slave ring.

[Pharoah]

Personally, if my content was used I'd be more likely to be chuffed than upset. YMMV.

And this is why I fear that this is their model.

Egosoft KNOWS any good modder would LOVE to have their feature, or modification implemented into an official release. Because of this, I fear that egosoft's mentality behind it is "Meh, what we don't do they will"

[Lyth]

... that conjures pictures in my head of sweaty obese geeks with hairy moobs wearing dirty Y-fronts being herded through the gates of Egosoft to work at taser point.. *shudders* thank you for that horrifying mental image lol.

I'm with nibbs on this, Egosoft haven't asked any modders to work on Rebirth, if anything the first thing most modders did was find ways to remove features (that egosoft no doubt worked hard on) to make the game tolerable. Last time I looked the never walk in stations, no space highways and shut Yisha up mods were all at the top spot.

[ragamer]

I love how we've gone from the initital obsurd idea that Egosoft are relying on modders to fix their game, to the utterly rediculous idea that Egosoft are the leaders of some sort of international digital slave ring.

Who said ES is trying to do this? Into ES there are past modders that know perfectly what I'm talking about, that know the critical role this Modding Community has played to increase the longevity of the X series...

...It's the users that tell others... "Hey! buy the game, modders make it playable!"...

...The ones that encourage this... Because they ignore were the limits are and just are carried away by their denial state, quite similar with the one Bernd shows on the interview, and try to desperately justify their "support" on this half finished product.

...ES just needs time, if they are willing to fix the game, but they will not use modders for doing it.

[Lyth]

Personally, if my content was used I'd be more likely to be chuffed than upset. YMMV.

And this is why I fear that this is their model.

Egosoft KNOWS any good modder would LOVE to have their feature, or modification implemented into an official release. Because of this, I fear that egosoft's mentality behind it is "Meh, what we don't do they will"

Speaking entirely for myself and the things I want to mod into the game, I can tell you that they went out of their way to make sure many things could not be modded in so afraid that doesn't hold up if they wanted modders to do their work for them.

[Pharoah]

Personally, if my content was used I'd be more likely to be chuffed than upset. YMMV.

And this is why I fear that this is their model.

Egosoft KNOWS any good modder would LOVE to have their feature, or modification implemented into an official release. Because of this, I fear that egosoft's mentality behind it is "Meh, what we don't do they will"

Speaking entirely for myself and the things I want to mod into the game, I can tell you that they went out of their way to make sure many things could not be modded in so afraid that doesn't hold up if they wanted modders to do their work for them.

I suppose you have a point there, but to be fair, it's only a matter of time before the modder get their hands on the more important files.