Adding forward guns to Brigantine(or any ship for that mater)

[Drockt1]

Ive done decent amount of stat editing in x3 editor 2, but i just can not figure out what needs to be done to mess with adding front cockpit guns, on a ship that does not have them. I assume its something to do with the scene file that im not understanding. Basicly what im trying to do is add 4 Forward cockpit controlled guns to my brigantine in XTM.

There are 2 reasons for this, #1 id like to have a easy to see display of my ships laser energy, which you would have to find other ways on ships with no player controlled guns. #2 i like to have SOME firepower to easily control for boarding, for widdiling down the shields when i stop the turrets from firing.

I can't seem to get the [ external image ] tags to work with my picture, but here is a link to it, showing what i did with the guns so far. They show up in game, and are lighted up, but will not fire in game(tried cloning a new ship in case also). As i said earlier, im sure im missing something with the way this works with the scene file and ordinals(i have now clue what these are honestly), but if anyone could give me info on what im doing wrong here that would be great, thanks!

http://picasaweb.google.com/11643383825 ... 6607937938

[DrBullwinkle]

i just can not figure out what needs to be done to mess with adding front cockpit guns, on a ship that does not have them. I assume its something to do with the scene file that im not understanding.

I, too, have searched for a tutorial about this that I could understand. I have seen only vague, terse responses on the subject, and the very few tutorials that I can find by searching don't discuss it. At least, not in a way that I can grok. I have tried the stickies, searching the forum, and Google; all with no joy.

So I did what you did; I used the X3 Editor. The one tip that I picked up from other threads is that the scene has to include a hardpoint in order for a gun to fire. So I removed guns from forward-facing turrets and mounted them to the cockpit, USING EXACTLY THE HARDPOINTS THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY USED IN THE TURRET.

To say it another way, in your picture, make sure that all of the settings for your cockpit guns are exactly the same as settings for guns in your front turret. Then remove those guns from the front turret.

(Before I do any of this, I copy and paste the ship object, then change the ID and Variation Index to give it a name that I can recognize (Raider/Vanguard/Sentinel/etc). Then I make the changes, as above. When everything is ready, I use the cheat script to add it to the game. That way, only *my* ship has the change. NPC ships are normal. )

(Theoretically, the Ship Creator should be a better way to add a ship, but I have yet to find docs for it that I can understand. It never quite works right for me *sigh*.)

I have no doubt that editing the scene file is a better way to do the job. It might even be easier, for all I know.

Perhaps a more knowledgeable person will post a good explanation for how to do it the right way (or a link to a good explanation). If you find a better solution, then please post it.

[expnobody]

ordinal 1 needs to correspond to a turret/gun dummy in the ship's scene file

[Drockt1]

@DrBullwinkle Thanks for the reply, i did figure i could jack the guns from the front turret pretty easy, but i didn't really want to do this. As im playing XTM, i believe there is no room left for new ships, so any changes i did to the ship would have to be for the NPC ships also.. and we all know there less then talented with cockpit guns, over turrets.

@exnobody Thanks, do you have any clue of how, and how hard it is to edit scene files and add a gun point? Ive tried to open the scene file in x3 editor, and it gives me a error.. If its out of my league as a minor editor please let me know

[expnobody]

@DrBullwinkle Thanks for the reply, i did figure i could jack the guns from the front turret pretty easy, but i didn't really want to do this. As im playing XTM, i believe there is no room left for new ships, so any changes i did to the ship would have to be for the NPC ships also.. and we all know there less then talented with cockpit guns, over turrets.

@exnobody Thanks, do you have any clue of how, and how hard it is to edit scene files and add a gun point? Ive tried to open the scene file in x3 editor, and it gives me a error.. If its out of my league as a minor editor please let me know

you don't open it in X3E2, you drag the scene file out, and open with notepad

[Drockt1]

@DrBullwinkle Thanks for the reply, i did figure i could jack the guns from the front turret pretty easy, but i didn't really want to do this. As im playing XTM, i believe there is no room left for new ships, so any changes i did to the ship would have to be for the NPC ships also.. and we all know there less then talented with cockpit guns, over turrets.

@exnobody Thanks, do you have any clue of how, and how hard it is to edit scene files and add a gun point? Ive tried to open the scene file in x3 editor, and it gives me a error.. If its out of my league as a minor editor please let me know

you don't open it in X3E2, you drag the scene file out, and open with notepad

Ah k thanks, was able to edit it fine, although ive decided reading this file that its kinda over my head.. I don't really understand much in the way of what the numbers in the scene file relate to. Thanks for your help so far.

[nate10587]

Ok, keep in mind that I edit X3TC and not XTM so this may be different but here is the explanation about how I accomplished this on an M1 that was my flagship. I wanted to have a Yamato like main weapon XP. Ok, so first things first, go to the scene file in the X3 editor of a ship that already has a front weapon. Instead of using the 3d viewer, click the "All" tab next to the "Recommended" tab when bringing up the scene file in the editor, it should give you an option for "Text Editor" open that one. It should give you a text file with a bunch of entries. Editing this text file essentially edits the scene file. Each entry corresponds to a different aspect of the ship. For instance a forward turret would look like this in the text file.

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P 8; B ships\Cadius\ATF\Prop\Revelation_Dummy; C 2; N ships\Cadius\ATF\Prop\Revelation_Dummy_2fronta;  // idx 8
{ 0x2002;  0; 8208; 428054;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

The "P" at the beginning specifies a new entry. When making a new entry make sure the number after "P" is one higher that the last one in the scene file. Such as "P 9" in this instance if this were the last entry. The number you put here is the index number. You will need that to edit the Tships file later. Ok, so now copy and past the file that adds a forward weapon to the ship. It should look like this.

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P 7; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-01; b  // idx 7
{ 0x2002;  20081; -218; 197990;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1; 1; } // 0

This was taken from the forward weapon of the Aegir M7 in its scene file. "invisible_weapon" is the key here. Again make sure its index is not 7 but the number thats one higher than the last index entry in the scene file.

Ok now there is one more thing to change. The position entry. Since each ship is a different size, the position entry obviously wont work right on a larger or smaller ship so you have to change it. The position entry in this case is

Code: Select all

20081; -218; 197990

Each number represents and axis on the model. Now you need some trial and error to find the right position for the front of the ship. Look at another entry in the scene of the ship you are editing for a reference such as the most forward turret. I can tell you that the last number will be a high positive number since it is going to be in the front and as long as you only want one point of fire on the weapon the first number will be "0" since you want it to be centered. The first number is the position to the right or left through either a positive or negative number. The higher the positive the farther (right? I think?) and the lower the negative the farther the opposite. The same goes for the height either up or down thats represented by the second number and the length represented by the third number. Once you think the position is right save the file.

Now one more file to edit: the Tships file. Go to your ship and click on the turrets tab in the editor. Click the main cockpit and click the "Add Weapon" on the weapons field. It should be the top left above the second field. Its going to as for a weapon count (how many weapons will fire from this node), dummy file and a scene index (remember that number you put after the "P"? This number also goes here!) Since its a mian weapon without a firing animation and not a turret, you can leave the second part, the weapon file, blank and the last field at "-1" If you were adding a turret, you would also need the weapon file. To get the dummy file, go to the Tships file of the ship you got the scene entry for the main gun from and copy past the dummy file to the Tships file of the ship you are modding.

Finally, in the Tships file for the "Weapons" tab and add compatible weapons to the ship with its new main gun.

You should be done. Go into the game, create your ship, install the laser you chose and test it. If you need to adjust the weapon position, due so in the scene file.

I know thats alot to take in if you are inexperienced with scene file text editing, but it should at least get you started! Hope this helps! If you have any questions feel free to post them here.

[Drockt1]

@nate, thanks a lot for the scene editing part.. i was totally thinking i would need to edit the model in some 3d viewer to add a gun point... thanks alot for the help!

[DrBullwinkle]

Brilliant post, Nate. Thanks!

1) Copy and paste the following code block into your scene file.

2) Check the ordinals -- they must be unique and contiguous. I have already done that for the example Brigantine.

2a) Optional: Check the position of the main guns; especially the third number which is front-to-back (442554 in the example). Ideally, you want that value to be somewhere close to the front of the ship.

3) Add the new guns to the main cockpit (Turrets tab) in TShips (using X3 Editor).

4) Done. Go shoot something.

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/ =====================================================================
/ Adding 8 Main Guns to any ship (Bullwinkle, 2012-02-06) 
/ (Based on nate10587's excellent advice)
/ 1) Change the "P 29" through "P 36" entries to next-higher 
/    indexes for your ship's scene.
/    (Example is for Pirate Brigantine M2)
/ 2) Change the x, y, z locations as appropriate for your ship.
/    For example, it is OK to copy locations from forward 
/    turrets on your ship.
/    The z value is most important (front-to-back axis). 
/    If in doubt, just change that.
/    Don't worry about being perfect. This is mainly for visuals.
/ 3) Add the index numbers from (1) to TShips for your ship's cockpit.
/    Number of laser parts = 1
/    Model = ships\props\invisible_weapon
/    Scene node index = (next higher index for your ship's scene)
/    For main guns, leave "Secondary Model" blank and 
/    Secondary Scene node index = -1.
/ 4) Add Weapon Types for your ship.
/ You're done!
P 29; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-01; b
  { 0x2002;  -10087; 10636; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  -10087; 10636; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 30; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-02; b
  { 0x2002;  10066; 10636; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  10066; 10636; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 31; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-03; b
  { 0x2002;  -23664; 8107; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  -23664; 8107; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 32; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-04; b
  { 0x2002;  23643; 8107; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  23643; 8107; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 33; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-05; b
  { 0x2002;  -31534; -33659; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  -31534; -33659; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 34; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-06; b
  { 0x2002;  31513; -33659; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  31513; -33659; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 35; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-07; b
  { 0x2002;  -23320; -33719; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  -23320; -33719; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
P 36; B ships\props\invisible_weapon; C 1; N Bships\props\invisible_weapon_1-08; b
  { 0x2002;  23299; -33719; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  3333;  1; } // 1
  { 0x2002;  23299; -33719; 442554;  0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000; 0.000000;  -1;  -1; } // -1
/ =====================================================================

Modifying TShips is easier. Just in case you run into trouble, here is a modified TShips entry that corresponds to the above. (Note that this is not the vanilla Brigantine, so just use it for reference):

1) Copy and paste the following line to the end of TShips (using a good text editor).

2) Increment the number of lines at the top of TShips. For example, if line 3 says, "50;401;" then change it to "50;402;".

3) Test by loading TShips into X3 Editor.

4) If that works, then use the Cheat Package to Create a Ship of type "Brigantine Raider" (in-game).

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0;0;0.012;0.008;0.008;SG_SH_M2;12961;18500;2085;102;1;11;373;11520;112;247;ships\pirate\Pirate_M2_scene;ships\argon\cockpits\argon_m2_cp_scene;283124224;50;276400;0.014999;5;3;16391;9;4;4;18000;19000;86;89;1;91;4;90;2;91;3;92;5;92;6;0;4;8;3750000;37;38;0;3;10;OBJ_SHIP_M2;7;1;0;ships\props\cameradummy;3;2;1;ships\props\cameradummy;4;3;2;ships\props\cameradummy;8;4;3;ships\props\cameradummy;5;5;4;ships\props\cameradummy;9;6;5;ships\props\cameradummy;6;7;6;ships\props\cameradummy;7;7;1;8;1;8;1;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;36;;-1;2;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;29;;-1;3;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;30;;-1;4;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;31;;-1;5;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;32;;-1;6;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;33;;-1;7;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;34;;-1;8;1;ships\props\invisible_weapon;35;;-1;9;4;2;2;9;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;1;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;11;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;10;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;13;8;3;4;13;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;11;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;15;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;12;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;17;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;13;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;19;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;14;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;21;6;4;3;21;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;19;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;23;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;20;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;25;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;21;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;27;8;5;4;27;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;16;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;29;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;17;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;31;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;18;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;33;2;ships\props\bigturret4_dummy;15;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;35;8;6;4;35;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;2;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;37;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;22;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;39;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;23;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;41;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;24;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;43;8;7;4;43;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;25;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;45;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;26;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;47;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;27;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;49;2;ships\props\bigturret5_dummy;28;ships\props\bigturret4_weapon;1;1;1196000;25;1;0;1196000;33333;0;0;SS_SH_PI_M2_P;

[Drockt1]

Thanks to both of you I have it working great.. I added 4 Front guns to the brig, and there positioned nicely. I only did 4 cause i felt going 8 with 4 turrets in front already would be kinda closer to cheating.

[nate10587]

No problem guys I'm glad you got it working. Just remember that you can use this to add or change turrets or turret visuals to the ship too. Really you can add anything another ship has, even a docking bay (That may be a bit more complicated though not sure).

Also, when a ship has a main weapon installed, remember that its default attacking AI changes a bit. Your M2 will now sort of act like a fighter in combat.. it will charge straight in and fire its mains then turn around and retreat a bit before rinsing and repeating. It usually isnt too big a deal since with proper range the turrets still fire independently but it is a little goofy to watch lol. Im not sure if this affects oos combat at all. I wish someone would write a script to make the M7s and above with mains just sit and fire their mains at their target and only maneuvering to adjust there alignment and keep their target in sight of the mains. That would be more realistic.

[DrBullwinkle]

even a docking bay (That may be a bit more complicated though not sure).

I'm glad you mentioned that...

I have always thought that an M1 should be able to dock a TS, TP, or M6 (perhaps one of each). In vanilla, a Frigate (piloted by the player) is superior to a carrier in many ways. The ability to dock a few support ships would give the player a real reason to use a carrier.

I know that some modders have been able to do it.

So I tried using your technique to copy the Goner Aran "BigDock" to another ship. However, there seems to be more to the puzzle. I only see one kind of dock in the Components file, and it appears to be referenced by ID number rather than by name. The Aran BigDock also refers to a number, but it is a different number than the dock in the Components file. I do not know where to find a reference to the ID numbers used in the game. For that matter, I am not even sure that the IDs are related to the problem.

That's where I get stuck.

[nate10587]

@DrBullwinkle

Hmm external docking bays are kinda tricky. I haven't messed with them as much. The good news is that the Rebalance Mod gives all M7 and higher external docking bays and M1s and M2s can even dock M6s and TS. As such I haven't needed to mess around with modding docking much since simply pasting a few more launch bays on an M2 and raising its docking capacity is all I really need to make it a carrier if I so choose.

Have you looked into that mod? It really improves the game substantially.

[nate10587]

However, I received a message a couple years ago about this problem. Maybe it will help? I'll post it:

sorry for answering so late to your question about the not-working hangarbays on your titan. Wasn't active on the forum when you asked and it seems that the others who did hangarmods are not here anymore.

So, if you still haven't fixed your problem and you still want to fix it, I might provide a solution.

Code:
P 16; B 19026; C 2; N B19026_2; b
{ 0x2002; -38711; -62652; -52798; 0.250000; 0.000000; 1.000000; 0.000000; -1; -1; } // -1
/ Fri Sep 30 17:03:17 2005
/ Node B19026_3 Class [Editable Poly, GEOMOBJECT_CLASS_ID]


The Problem is "B 19026". Even if that is the correct file for the dock, (as I remember there were at least 4 files to define docks, one for small vessels, one for M6, one for TS/TP and one for capital sized ships...but it's been a while since I researched this stuff), it is not the correct file for the shipscene! Every thing you add to the shipscene, no matter if it's done by texteditor or via GMax, has to be referred to the ships\props folder. So the correct code should be:

Code:
P 16; B ships\props\NAMEOFTHEDOCK; C 2; N Bships\props\NAMEOFTHEDOCK; b
{ 0x2002; -38711; -62652; -52798; 0.250000; 0.000000; 1.000000; 0.000000; -1; -1; } // -1
/ Fri Sep 30 17:03:17 2005
/ Node B19026_3 Class [Editable Poly, GEOMOBJECT_CLASS_ID]


I'm also not sure about the last two lines. Where do they come from? They shouldn't be in the scenefile, at least I don't have them in my scenefiles. Did you copy them with the rest of the code from the original file? The Date of creation is not of any interest for the game, also the Node B19026_3 Class is probably unacessary and in the worst case it breaks the scenefileentry. So delete them.

Oh...by the way, the link to the propsfolder you enter in the scene has to be the same as in the dummies.txt. So if you define a new dockingdummy (in that case copying and renaming the 19026-File is the right thing to do...I did it that way...) you should enter it into the dummies.txt, otherwise the game can't use it.

Hope that explanation helps, even if it comes a bit late (i know...).

Greetings,
CoffeeMan

[DrBullwinkle]

Thanks again, Nate.

That is an interesting clue from CoffeeMan. It explains why my test did not work. I will look at the XRM ships and see whether I can find further clues there.

the Rebalance Mod ... Have you looked into that mod?

If you mean XRM then, yeah, I love/hate it.

The eye candy, improved performance, combat, and better enemies are all excellent.

Unfortunately, the haphazard off-the-cuff un-balancing and the fact that it completely changes the nature of wares without support resources are show-stoppers for me. I could not find anything like X3 Wiki or x3tc.ru for XRM, and I use those heavily. The XRM spreadsheet has only about half of the information required to play the game well.

If one wanted to play a different game with the weapons, ships, and equipment being complete mysteries then, yeah, XRM rules. But I want to play X3, which is professionally balanced (using proper balancing equations). IMHO, X3 is night-and-day superior to XRM in that regard.

I'm not knocking XRM -- it is awesome. It is just not for me, that's all I am saying.

I did have good success with using some of the *concepts* behind CMOD4 to make my own TShips, TLasers, and TBullets. The result is something like "CMOD Classic". It has the advantages of CMOD while retaining X3's balance. That works much better for me.

Maybe I can do something similar for XRM, but the difficulty is higher. CMOD's concepts are simple to re-create. But XRM is more about content than about concepts. So rebuilding the files is a more complicated task. I know how to do it... I am just not sure that I want to bother.

Anyway, thanks for your tips!

[nate10587]

Ah that discourages me a bit since I have not gotten very far into XRM then (had no idea thats what that stood for haha). However, I am making my own mod anyway that revolves around capitals ships (mainly carriers) so I am having to do a lot of rebalancing anyway. Lowering fighter costs to a fraction of what they were and rebalancing capital class ships with far more health and less effective anti fighter weapons. I am also changing weapons visuals and such so my game is pretty far from even XRM at this point. Its an interesting experience. The only thing im worried about really is OOS imbalance as IS is fine atm from what I've seen.

[DrBullwinkle]

A lot of people love XRM, and it certainly has some very good features.

If you want increased capital health and nerfed weapons, then those are already some of XRM's features! And Albion Prelude increases capital ship hulls as well.

Lowered fighter costs... that's up to you. At a certain point, it becomes easy to earn credits. I use $10M fighters, so a wing of ten costs me one hundred million credits. I do not find it burdensome, because the more expensive fighters do not die so easily.

(The burdensome part is equipping fighters.)

If you play the Hub Plot, it essentially forces you to build up your personal economy to a point where you earn credits in your sleep. As real-life millionaires know, that is the secret to profitssssss!

But each game is individual, and you can play the game any way you like. So don't worry too much about opinions on this forum -- just play the game the way that *you* want to play it.

[nate10587]

Yeah and I may opt to go that route eventually as a form of personal achievement, but right now Im more interested in mimicking the mechanics of a game for the PS2 I used to play called naval ops commander only in space. I want combat to resemble more resemble star wars and I want the carrier especially to be the center of the fleet as in present day operations and the only way to do that is to increase the cost effectiveness of carriers substantially. As you can see, without mods and scripts carriers are both tiresome and very ineffective compared with almost any other ship credit for credit. A way to solve this is to drasticly lower the cost [and effectiveness] of fighters to make them way more expendable and part of an every day purchase. To reduce tedious micromanagement, I also set their tunings as a set amount and their default wares to a modest armament straight out of the shipyard. Scripts like Anarkis Defense System make fighters more easily controlled as well. So far this has been a success but time and hours logged will see. Its exciting to experiment though

[DrBullwinkle]

To reduce tedious micromanagement, I also set their tunings as a set amount and their default wares to a modest armament straight out of the shipyard.

Excellent ideas! The Solano, in vanilla TC, is intended to be a good fleet fighter. It is cheap, fast, ,and strong. And you only get it after you have found Legend's Home, which takes some time on your first play through. In my game, it was one of the last "normal" sectors that I found. I think that is a good combination, and it would be even better if the Solano were set up the way that you describe.

Carriers can be extremely effective, both in and out of sector. But, as you say, they are expensive to own and operate. That is intentional, but I can also understand your POV.

That is the beauty of the X-verse... you can play the game any way you choose!

[nate10587]

Completely agreed!