Logon required to install/play?

DannyDSC · Post by **DannyDSC** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:26

I hope if we can install Rebirth from DvD and update it from Steam because if we must download ( like CoD ) it from steam to play....well, I've a internet key..

Shootist · Post by **Shootist** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:30

esd wrote:
Shootist wrote:You can turn off updates.
But I want to update. I just want to download the darn thing while I'm playing. My free-computer time is very limited and extremely valuable for a multitude of reasons.

You can play in offline mode.
Not consistently. It requires occasional online revalidation, and offline mode itself is not particularly reliable.

These are reasons why I actively avoid purchasing Steam-only games. Seriously, if a box says "requires Steam", I put it back on the shelf. Steam simply isn't viable for me nor my internet connection.

You can update at your leisure, by manually updating.

I have 6 steam games. I update them manually. I haven't been online to play, ever.

It appears you are just being difficult.

Post by **X2-Illuminatus** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:31

DannyD wrote:I hope if we can install Rebirth from DvD and update it from Steam because if we must download

This is what Bernd said.

Kor'ah · Post by **Kor'ah** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:35

Nanook wrote:Why not, and where do you get this info? I want to hear it from Bernd or some other Ego employee first.

Bernd wrote:It is very likely that X Rebirth will be using Steamworks, because our publisher is moving all recent games to this platform. This would of course not mean that you can only buy the game electronically via Steam, but that a boxed copy that you buy in a shop would have to be activated with Steam.

I know not everybody likes this, but for us as a developer this is great news, because it means that there is only ONE version we have to support and that all of our customers can automatically update to the latest version of the game. I can not overstate how big a deal this is from a developers point of view!

It may be hard for most of you active forum users to understand, because you would always see a new update and install it immediately, but unfortunately you are just a minority.

-Bernd

Right there plain as day. Steamworks and services like it are taking over PC gaming. Love it, hate it, but that's how it is.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:46

It is very likely that X Rebirth will be using Steamworks, because our publisher is moving all recent games to this platform. This would of course not mean that you can only buy the game electronically via Steam, but that a boxed copy that you buy in a shop would have to be activated with Steam.

This is what is upsetting a number of X-fans.

What if Steam goes bust,like so many other innovative companies over the past ten years?

What guarantee is there for support of our beloved games?

Caldazar · Post by **Caldazar** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 19:52

So far I've bought every single X-Game. I inted to buy X-Rebirth as well – if Egosoft and Deepsilver give me the chance to do so.

However I'm not going to pay money if all I get is an official permission to use the software. As long as I need a Steam account every time I want to install/play the game I don't really own it.
I consider it a major bug if a game requires me to install malware (aka Steam) to play. Giving people the option to use Steam is one thing – to force them is quite another.

I understand the advantage of only supporting one version of the game. On the other hand I don't think it would be too difficult to have the XR launcher check for available patches and advertise them. Add a "download here" button and a list of features the new patch offers. Right now I can't think of an easier way to advertise a patch.
Yes, that's now as effective as using stream to force people to get the new version. That's the point – let the users decide what to do with their software!

If XR really uses Steam ("very likely" doesn't mean "for sure") I seriously hope that sales drop considerabely. I don't want Egosoft to go bankrupt but it might be the only way to stop these invasive DRM systems.

upset and sad

Caldazar

kayahr · Post by **kayahr** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:05

Observe wrote:There are still some games out there that don't require Steam, and those are the games I purchase.

Hm... I prefer purchasing the games I like to play. And X-Rebirth is one of them. I understand the reasons against Steam but this can't be a reason good enough to stop me playing the good games.

As a Linux user I could also insist on platform-independent games because I don't want to install the freaking gaming environment system called Windows just to be able to play the game. But unfortunately that's not how it works. When I reject Windows games and stick to Linux games then I guess I will not have much fun. And as a developer I know how difficult it is to develop platform-independent stuff so I have accepted that I need a separate operating system for gaming.

Steam is pretty much the same problem. It simply gets more and more popular and attracts more and more games. Like a magnet. And even if you don't like it (As I don't like Windows) it's unfortunately some kind of future for PC gaming. And honestly: Better Steam than this freaking Windows Live stuff.

Shootist · Post by **Shootist** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:13

Steam offers tremendous incentives for software publishers. In this case, it allows Deepsilver to offer the game on 0-day to places other than Europe, at what I have to assume to be, a very reasonable price.

esd · Post by **esd** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:18

Shootist wrote:You can update at your leisure, by manually updating.

When, exactly? My computer's not on 24/7, and I'm not the only one to use the connection. When I pop in on the forums, I'm generally not on my gaming PC. I run downloads while I play. Steam won't allow that.

I have 6 steam games. I update them manually. I haven't been online to play, ever.

It appears you are just being difficult.

I have no reason to be "just difficult", and you've no reason to make that assumption.

Steam simply isn't a viable option for me or my internet connection. I've explained why already. And yes, I've put several rather good looking games back on the shelf for just that reason.

Shootist · Post by **Shootist** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:28

I thought I read you only played their free games?

You know when a patch has been released. You only have to update once for each patch. You can do this manually. You can do it while the kids use the PC. You can do it while you sleep. You can do it standing on your head.

After the patch: Once you set Steam for offline mode, Steam doesn't even load. The games play as they would other wise.

Will all respect, either I've had a general failure to communicate, or you're being particularly thick.

esd · Post by **esd** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:33

Shootist wrote:I thought I read you only played their free games?

You did. Where did I contradict that?

The only two games I have installed on Steam are Portal and Alien Swarm. Neither get played very often.

You know when a patch has been released. You only have to update once for each patch.

But cannot play while you do so.

You can do this manually.

Via HTTP/BT/FTP? Or only through Steam?

You can do it while the kids use the PC.

Which'd require allowing those kids to be able to access Steam, and would also require allowing my kids on my gaming PC. Neither happen (except the latter on rare occasions where the Boy and I play Spore. He likes the XBox, y'see).

You can do it while you sleep.

I don't know about you, but I don't tend to leave my gaming rig on overnight.

You can do it standing on your head.

And that's just facetious.

After the patch: Once you set Steam for offline mode, Steam doesn't even load. The games play as they would other wise.

Yet there's a lot of complaints about offline mode simply not working for many people, or only working intermittently.

Will all respect, either I've had a general failure to communicate, or you're being particularly thick.

No, I'm not being "thick" and I'll remind you that insults are not welcome on this forum. I've stated why Steam isn't suitable for me or my internet connection. It's not an issue for you, that's fine - I've not made out that Steam is an issue for everyone because I know full-well that some people get on just fine with it. Just as you'll have to accept that some don't.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:34

Once you set Steam for offline mode, Steam doesn't even load.

But if you did not go to "offline mode" before you last switched off the PC, if you want to play offline,due to no connection, it refuses to let me play off line until I log in to steam and select offline.

So I still play most of my time on TC with the DVD version with the DLC added to the game I play.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:41

Just let steam auto patch esd, play a diff game on steam or whatever while its patching. You can pause patches too if you felt like doing some one day and rest another. You can set to manual updates which means it wouldn't auto download when they become available and let you set the time to start to update instead.

I think your just trying to find an excuse not to use steam myself. No issues with steam its great at keeping games up to date in the background.

For x games the most size i have seen a patch is about 150 meg max or so. Which on any standard adsl connection of a few mb wouldnt take more than 10 mins to download which is no time at all as you could make a cuppa and it would be done by time you got back or somit to that extent.

esd · Post by **esd** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:45

Skeeter wrote:Just let steam auto patch esd, play a diff game on steam or whatever while its patching.

I've already said my gaming time is very limited, so that's not a solution but a workaround. Not a very good one, either.

You can pause patches too if you felt like doing some one day and rest another.

But still cannot play until it's patched.

I think your just trying to find an excuse not to use steam myself.

That's unfair. I have no reason to do so. I've stated my reasons - these may not be reasons that affect you, but they do affect me, and others. You're happy with Steam, that's fine - I'm not trying to convince you not to use it. I find Steam unsuitable for me and my connection, so rather than try and convince me that I'm wrong, why not just accept my reasoning? It's not like I've just gone "hate Steam" and that's it, else it'd not be on my system at all!

thetack · Post by **thetack** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:47

though i admit suprise to beign on esds side shootist, you seem to fail to grasp the problem that many of us have, to download one of the TC patch at home would have taken 2 days the same patch at work 15 seconds some of us just cant download patches at home thats why we dont like the idea of steamin any shape or form.

TTD · Post by **TTD** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:48

For x games the most size i have seen a patch is about 150 meg max or so. Which on any standard adsl connection of a few mb wouldnt take more than 10 mins to download which is no time at all as you could make a cuppa and it would be done by time you got back or somit to that extent.

But via an unreliable 3G connection can take much much longer,and hoping it does not get disconnected part way through,or you have to download all from the start again.

Observe · Post by **Observe** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:52

I don't like Steam for all the reasons given by others who don't like it.

In addition, I am a crusty old hermit who just wants to buy the box, go home, and be left the hell alone without some malware/plugin/addon/toolbar/etc wanting to run in the background and grab a piece of my computer action!

I resent some internet mogul thinking they have the right to connect their umbilical cord to my existence - which is my definition of Steam and their ilk.

Skeeter · Post by **Skeeter** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:55

What is your connection download speed?

Who said anything about gaming time, if the gaming pc is on let it patch even if your just browsing the net on it. Surely if you play x games your on it for quiet awhile?

Also who is to say the patch will take along time?

If you dont want to patch then dont patch when you want to play right then and there. Just disable auto updates. I assume it wouldnt force you to update to the latest patched version unless its some mp only game or somit like a mmo.

Hmm about not playing when patching, surely if you pause the patch you can play the game, as it is downloading a patch installer (i assume) or is keeping the patch files separate of the main game till 100% complete so you might be able to pause an update and still be able to play.

Otherwise just don't use steam but you really should if you have a semi decent connection of at least 2mb down speed, its all convenience and keeps your games up to date silently so they are always up to date.

Tho really cant understand how you cannot just leave a comp on for 10 mins or up to whatever time it takes for quick patches now and then which will be few and far between.

@ Observe, there is no malware or any toolbars or addons or whatever with steam. It is a simple gaming client which you install and is small like 1mb or somit and lets you download games over the net easily and keeps them up to date whenever a patch "may" come out. Also has some good social tools like friend lists, groups to chat with your mates if you want. It is not invasive at all.

@ TTD - You wouldnt lose a patch download progress as it saves whatever you have downloaded and if you did disconnect it simply resumes at the point you disconnected and continues like nothing had happened. But about 3g mobile connection well it would be best not to buy large popular games but keep to the indie games which are small in filesize if you want to avoid long download times when downloading the game or patching for example tf2 likes to patch alot or lfd2.

esd · Post by **esd** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 20:59

Skeeter wrote:What is your connection download speed?

Varies. If it rains, you're looking at about 0.128mbps. Not kidding. That also then destroys my BT connection speed (which isn't the same as your line connection speed, it's the speed the exchange is willing to send data down your line at, which can be a fraction of your actual connected speed) At best, it's 1.3mbps.

And I'm not the only one on it, either!

Who said anything about gaming time, if the gaming pc is on let it patch even if your just browsing the net on it. Surely if you play x games your on it for quiet awhile?

If my gaming rig's on, I'm generally gaming.

Also who is to say the patch will take along time?

If it's raining, they all take a long time.

If you dont want to patch then dont patch when you want to play right then and there. Just disable auto updates. I assume it wouldnt force you to update to the latest patched version unless its some mp only game or somit like a mmo.

Hmm about not playing when patching, surely if you pause the patch you can play the game, as it is downloading a patch installer (i assume) or is keeping the patch files separate of the main game till 100% complete so you might be able to pause an update and still be able to play.

Nope. If you pause an in-progress patch, you have to finish it to play, I believe. It's never let me do that with Portal or AS, anyway.

Tho really cant understand how you cannot just leave a comp on for 10 mins or up to whatever time it takes for quick patches now and then which will be few and far between.

See above.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Wed, 5. Oct 11, 21:01

I completely agree with you esd.

When I first heard about Rebirth I was really looking forward to it, it was going to be a preorder, then I read more and it appeared it was heading for the console and dumbing down, I went to no buy.

Then more info and I was back to preorder it; now I am back to no order at all. Steam is a deal breaker for me too.

This has ruined this irrelevant minorities day.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

Logon required to install/play?