Egosoft please help me understand.

[altbeb]

i actually don't mind the single player in the X series.. multi player would be great though..being able to construct a huge fleet of capitals and then invade an opponents sector...having to actually have defences in place at your installations..

ho.. have been away for x3 for a while due to work commitments, like the idea of the new x-game.. but a bit of topic..a single ship...??

[niadh]

In X3TC Multiplayer wouldn't work.
Mainly because the first person to have enough money to acquire an M7M and a complex to produce missiles would pretty much win the game from the other side of each sector.
Wait until someone builds a factory, jump in, launch enough missiles to destroy it, kill TL, jump out.

[Sixense]

The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.

[Virtualaughing]

How can your PC handle your empire?
How big is your empire anyway?
Did you visited all the sectors and did you fill them all with your ships ?
(ofc Khaak n Xenon sectors will be foolish)
What if i don't have life and my only goal will be to hit every place where silicon found?

Based on script editor i have found once 300.000 script task running and it is only me. We have some exceptionally notorious players among us. I think we require another server. I mean 1 server / person. Then it won't be multiplayer

As much as i saw from EVE i can tell, you can't compare that for the X universe
Not to mention the huge bandwidth that requires for exchange that HUGE amount of data in every 100 millisec. Abowe that it is considered as Laggy Gameplay

[perkint]

SETA is not the issue. Empire building is not the issue. Computer power is not the issue. The only issue meaning it doesn't happen is money. There are ways round all the smaller points. But, the fact that mutliplayer will not recoup the development costs is the absolute blocking issue.

And, swapping publisher is not a solution. What reason would another publisher have for giving funds to an unprofitable enterprise that DeepSilver has refused?

Tim

[brattbags01]

Okay I know there have been many threads about this. I think I asked once a couple years ago. This time is a little different. I am not asking if you will. Im asking for a honest and reasonable detailed reason for why you all will NOT do multiplayer?

It doesn't need all sorts of new fangled features or shininess. It doesnt need to support five million simultaneous player connections... You all could take x2. Change absolutely NOTHING about how the game works. Just add netcode with the ability to run a persistent server. I mean it could cap out at 20 players at a time. i dont care. Just give us a little chat feature and the ability to be in the same x2 game... And I would buy the game again. Without complaint. You could do something that simple and I would be happy. Hell I bet at least 80% of your fans would be.

So my question is why not? Is the Ego in egosoft making you wait till you all can confidently manage a uselessly large mmo, cause I can say we got that and dont need another. Smaller scale more personal community would rock. Is it an irrational fear of netcode? You cant take the idea of sharing your x-universe? I mean you dont have to USE multiplayer.. Just let us have it!!! Wait... Is it the boggyman? Did he say he would come and take you all away if you added multiplayer?

Jokes aside what is it really? You already have the perfect game world built. What makes persistent multiplayer servers so hard? Please help me understand.

Sigh.....not again

[Naroku]

Multiplayer option will not add enough sales to make it a viable option. Simple. People are in business to make money.

[MOH_Skid]

The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.

How do you see this working? Having the game server running 24/7? Are your friends staying over to play on your LAN for 150 hours straight? What happens to the guy who has to go home? Does his in-game stuff disappear? Does he fall hopelessly behind the remaining players?

I used to think having multiplayer X3TC would be great. But, really, I think I just wanted a way to show off my trading fleet or my cool complexes. I just can't see hosting or joining an X3 multiplayer game and starting from scratch. And then having to quit in three hours. I imagine the overall player progress would be much lower/slower at the start since 4 players are competing for the same deals and resources.

Doesn't sound so fun now...

Skid

[Starforge1]

The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.

How do you see this working? Having the game server running 24/7? Are your friends staying over to play on your LAN for 150 hours straight? What happens to the guy who has to go home? Does his in-game stuff disappear? Does he fall hopelessly behind the remaining players?

I used to think having multiplayer X3TC would be great. But, really, I think I just wanted a way to show off my trading fleet or my cool complexes. I just can't see hosting or joining an X3 multiplayer game and starting from scratch. And then having to quit in three hours. I imagine the overall player progress would be much lower/slower at the start since 4 players are competing for the same deals and resources.

Doesn't sound so fun now...

Skid

I'm not advocating for this since ES obviously isn't going to be pursueing it at the moment, however:

A dedicated server could work quite well - 'lan' mode being what it is (I routinely connect with friends 3000 miles away and play 'lan' games.) Leave it up or shut down / save when you've finished a session. As long as the ability exists to save it when you want (which it would) then the rest becomes house rules agreed upon.

With X3 as it exists, however, the problem would be as others have stated - it's too easy for a player to simply wreck things at will. In order to change that a lot of rebalancing of weapon systems and defenses would have to be done for a competetive (not co-operative) game.

It's too bad Jumpgate Evolution folded into probable vaporware or I would direct the OP that way. Even that, however, was more of a space fighter fighting sim rather than a economic sandbox game.

[Virtualaughing]

I hope you n me will build a HUGE complex beside eachother in most of the sectors

[joelR]

3 pages.....

[Unknown Pwn]

I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.

[DaveDash]

I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.

The universe is only dead if you let it be dead. There are plenty of house rules or roleplaying you can do to keep the universe alive. There are also mods you can play, as long as you don't care about the modified tag.

There are some games that are just made to be single player first and foremost. X is one of them. Other such games, Morrowind (similiar to X in many ways, but RPG), Dragon Age, etc.

Then there is the resources.

Egosoft would have to divert a huge section of their resources to balancing the game for multiplayer, writing code for multiplayer, etc etc. This means that with limited resources single player would suffer. I'd rather they just focus on creating a very solid, mostly bug free, with good AI X-Rebirth game than worry about multiplayer. X3TC is still very rough around the edges, so I'd like them get single player right in the future before even beginning to think about multiplayer.

The way you need to look at it is: Would multiplayer add to the game? Yes. However, at what cost to single player?

[delstars]

Edit: Wow I went WAYYYY overboard on this.

I agree with alot of things said in the thread such as the fact that the Universe is static, or that multiplayer AVAILABILITY would be nice. However we are all imperfect and there are limits to what we can do. I personaly loved the game when I was going through it, loved it. However when I got closer to the end, it sorta got boring because I was stuck doing combat missions over and over again. (I never did embrace the trade aspect) I did however love exploring, and going through plots. Now the static thing is a problem however, that could be fixed with things put in the game to balance it better. Such as a more involved AI. Say another company that sees you as a threat to business, and "deals with the problem". I would enjoy more story lines or a more involved one, but I understand they need to adress issues and new games before they will be able to even think about improving it more. (Which egosoft has done VERY well) All that aside I am now going to adress the multiplayer issue. As was mentioned before, MMO would be a disaster. Have you ever played a game such as darkorbit? I tell you that it absolutely SUCKS being held back by the other players that have hundreds of dollars to put into a game. I played that for a while thinking I had a hope of winning the biggest ship at an auction that required ig money. (not the stuff that you had to buy) Eventualy I did get one (after a VERY long time with much hardship) and you know what, I still got destroyed because they introduced something else that again improved the biggest ship, put in new ammo that you had to buy, and the people with money go around preying on the people that don't. It sucked. In the X series, some person would get a M2, and he/she would dominate. They'd go around and destroy everyone. Granted more than one may get to that point but then nobody else can get to that point because any rising power would be noticed and dealt with. Then there are hackers. (point already made) Like was said the only way that multiplayer would work would be a LAN short combat rounds or something like that. Now I personaly would like this but I understand that it isn't easy to program all of this. I personaly would rather have Rebirth over something like that any day. Finally, where do you get the right to go calling the devs at Egosoft lazy! Look at the X games. The X games are arguably the best space sims ever made. While there are other ones out there that may be better, (I've never found any) the X series is extremely well made and is always progressing with new things and games with people always playing it. If people didn't like the games, or if they were poor quality, do you think that the forum would be as active as it is. As an example, Need for Speed is a popular series and unless there is some sort of new release or something going on in the series, you can expect to get a reply to a post on the forum in about a day or even more. Here, I've gotten replies within 5 minutes and issue solved within half an hour. Don't call them lazy, because you know nothing about their lives, and how much work they actually. Lazy people aren't known for producing something of high quality.

[deca.death]

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

I really don't remember when I burn in more hundreds of gaming hours in a game and have more fun then in X3 "dead" universe. While other single player games offer linear experience of several hours, X3 stands out today as tower of replayability, content, and ability to make the game "your own" in a hundreds of game decision. As a game it's absolutely unique, and yes, it has maybe hundreds of badly implemented solutions, unpolished parts, bugs and exploits but that's only because of it's immense scope - game with this scope and content cannot avoid every problem. If they concentrated on smaller scale game believe me it would be much "better", it might even have multiplayer - thank God they didn't.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI

As I've said already on several occasion, X3 full scale multiplayer game would not be anything like game we know (and love) now. It would have to be entirely different product, in concept, style and mechanics. Thousands of parts have to be completely changed. It would simply not be X3 anymore, only potentially good MMO game very loosely based on X3 setting.

So we have a situation of game company that fills out unique niche on gaming market today, making great game people love, buy and play, arrangement where everybody is happy and then some guy like yourself comes out of the blue and asks: hey, why do you do that? Why not try something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT? Claiming that his clever idea can "improve" that flawless developer-community arrangement. I'm sorry friend but you clearly don't know what you are talking about or asking in this case. It has no sense.

[perkint]

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone

If your criticism were not true, it would be left alone? Really don't follow that logic!!

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Correct. As is answered every time this subject comes up. I don't understand what you're saying here, since you're complaining about Egosoft and then providing the reason they don't do multiplayer??

manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.

But you have just provided the same response as those requests usually get! Are you referring to yourself with that?

Tim

[Naroku]

Well for time playing X3 tc the steam part said....992 hours This the same inital plot I started green....STILL getting the silicon done while starting the powers missions next.

[Nafensoriel]

Just to drop in a word from the older crowd here....

The majority of gamers are fathers and mothers. 30-50 something adults. Shockingly enough very few of this group really give a damn about MP in every single game. In fact.. MP requires time and effort.. things we, the average gamer, have in short supply thanks to careers and children. A game like X where we can pause and talk to a family member or do some household task is far more preferred.

Does this mean that this age group hates multiplayer? Hell no. We enjoy it intensely. L4D2, TF2, Starcraft 1/2, SoaSE, SC Forged Alliance, Mechwarrior, etc etc. TONS of games out there offer on demand multiplayer that we enjoy. WHEN we feel like playing with another human being.. that is the key element here.. We sometimes like just RELAXING from our busy lives. X and a pause button does a damned fine job of that.

This trend to Co-Op and MP everything is really kind of stupid. It limits as much as it grants opportunities and is not a sovereign for success.

Unless I am the only old fart who gets grumpy about games like portal 2 where I have to pay full price for a game I only play half of because I can barely stand the "must have now" generation of teenagers or have a decided lack of interest in trying to set up and coordinate my gaming time and schedules with another individual. (AKA when I feel like gaming.. I game. I don't intend to wait for someone else to get off the pot first or eat dinner.)

[Vim Razz]

It's kind of amazing that this thread has gone on for so long...

As has been mentioned a few times now, there are a ~huge~ number of things which would have to change (in the game engine itself!) to function as a stable multiplayer game.

It's not just a mater of getting it to run on a shared server, the basic gameplay mechanics themselves would have to change at every level.

You'd probably end up with something that looks like a knock-off of EVE Online if you took the time to do it right -- and there already happens to be a pretty good game right now that currently fills that particular market niche.

[TTD]

My usual answer to people who complain about the series and say it could be better is...


Send a sample of their own good programming to show how they would improve the game.

If they can't programme , then stop complaining.

But now there has been so much negativity from some that I will add...

No one is forcing them to play the game.
Go and find a game that they enjoy .