[Mod] Bomber and Shuttle Docking v1.1 ( 8-28-09 ) Now with greater modularity.

[someone else]

thanks for data. inserting it in SRM now.

[irR4tiOn4L]

I really like what this mod does, is it possible to use it with MARS? Do i have to do anything special to get it to work with my 1.4 game?

[Alkeena]

I really like what this mod does, is it possible to use it with MARS? Do i have to do anything special to get it to work with my 1.4 game?

Yep, MARS support is built in. I want to be clear that I'm not trying to be snarky with what I'm about to say--read it in a good natured tone =) :

It says that MARS is supported in second paragraph of the first post. PLEASE be sure to read that full post carefully. Most (admittedly not all ) problems people have had have been a direct result of them not reading the first post carefully enough.

Again, no snark, just preemptive advice. =)

Anyway, to get MARS working all you have to do is install the script package for it (not the repair drone mod, it's already a part of BSD Core). At least in the general case. You however have a special case with a 1.4 game.

You have two options here. One is untested and probably wont work, but is really easy. The other requires a lot of work on your part...

The easy way is to just try and install it according to the directions in the first post and see what happens. I have no idea if it will work or not, but if it does work some of your ships WILL have different (2.1) stats than you've become accustomed to; but hey, easy install. In all liklihood it wont work though--you'll probably get some bullocks about a corrupted savegame. Don't worry about it, just remove the BSD related .cat/dats and everything should be back to normal (to anyone else reading this, this is not the proper uninstallation routine out of a savegame, it works here because at this point he would have failed have installed it in the first place).

If that didn't work, you have some work in front of you:

The issue is that BSD is built on a 2.1 TShips file. In order to get it to work with 1.4 compatibility you will have to merge it with your 1.4 TShips. I do not personally support this because it is already a significant amount of work to maintain just what I already have and doubling it just not possible with the time I have. I already have a number of different versions and resolving all issues that arise can be something of a pain (I try my hardest though ). Here is what you should do:

1. Use DoubleShadow's ModManager ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220964 ) to open the highest numbered .cat file in your X3TC Directory. Extract the \types\tships file somewhere.

2. Use the ModManageer to open the BSDCore .cat file and extract the whole thing somewhere.

3. Within the BSDCore extracted area you should find in the \types directory a file called TShips Minimally modified. Edit this with DoubleShadow's X3 Editor ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220438 ) (Or by hand if you know what you're doing--it will go faster but takes some knowledge).

4. Concurrently open the vanilla TShips that you extracted from your X3: TC directory.

5. For every ship record that exists in your 1.4 file (there will be a few more records in BSD than your 1.4 file since some ships were added since 1.4) edit your 1.4 file so that the number of docking slots matches the number of docking slots in BSD. Also check to make sure that the ship scene (the model used for the ship--the declaration for it should be in one of the tabs along the top of the X3 Editor) matches the BSD file for ships which have had external docking added by BSD.

6. Go to all of the drone records in your 1.4 file and add, I believe, the Mobile Drilling System to it's compatible main gun list. This adds repair laser (read: MARS) compatibility.

7. Save your 1.4 TShips in such a way as to OVERWRITE the tships in the unpacked BSD \types\ directory.

8. Repack the whole unpacked BSDCore into a new .cat/dat pair using the ModManager.

9. Install as per the directions in the first post.

It's a lot of work ( which is why you're doing it and not me , also I don't have a 1.4 tships), but it should work. If it doesn't, I'm sorry but that's the extent to which I'm willing to support 1.4 atm--I barely get to actually play X3 as it is. I hope you understand. :-\

Edit: Note that this will only port BSDCore. If you want cockpits you're going to also have to ensure that the cockpit scene designators match in your tships, if you do that you can just drop BSDCockpits in as well at that point. BSDBugfix and BSDBalance are a whole 'nother can of worms though that will each require signficant porting. Of the two Balance should be the easiest (just add the changes you like to the tships as you're following the procedure above). Bug fix I wouldn't even attempt tbh.

[PSCO1]

Great mod !
very usefull and i dont see that as a cheat for the game. Ships are bigs and allow to dock others littles ships its my point of view

I follow your work since few time , iam a new member and i was too busy to see who create mods actually and others members mods
I suppose compatibility is OK with my mod, i've just update my game to 2.1 so i will test your mod soon
p.s: sorry for my poor english again !

[Alkeena]

Great mod !
very usefull and i dont see that as a cheat for the game. Ships are bigs and allow to dock others littles ships its my point of view

I follow your work since few time , iam a new member and i was too busy to see who create mods actually and others members mods
I suppose compatibility is OK with my mod, i've just update my game to 2.1 so i will test your mod soon
p.s: sorry for my poor english again !

Thanks for the support. Also, don't worry about your English, I don't speak French, so no worries.

Also, for everyone else, I wrote a short post in another thread about the introduction of an M7 Carrier for the Terrans ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=245821 ) that I found very interesting. The post actualy detailed some of the design decisions I made and I thought I'd just copy it over here since it's actually very relevant to this mod. Copied post from the above thread follows:

--------------------------------------------------------

I wholeheartedly support this approach. If you look at my bomber and shuttle docking mod ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... eeb4b428ed ) you'll see that I gave almost all the ATF/Terran ships more docking than the rest explicitly because they have no light docking options in a TM or M7. If someone can get the overall model made, I can make her dock bombers externally as requested. =)

However, I would like to point out that this carrier deficiency is somewhat consistent with the overall Terran race design. Remember, they're new to the general x-verse and have explicitly shunned jump gates for a couple centuries. To them a light carrier doesn't make much sense since it simply cannot keep up with the fighters it's supposed to be supporting--everything had previously had to fly through every 'jump' they intended to complete. Thus carriers only made sense for really long operations and so seem to be only really justified when they're BIG.

That's changed now with the introduction to commonwealth space and the greater weight jumpgates now hold in their overall tactical and strategic philosophy. But still, only special ops and the like end up really leaving the solar system for much of anything, the Terrans are still very much self contained.

What am I blathering about? The Terrans don't have a TM or M7 carrier because they don't need one with the way the operate. Newly formed special expeditionary forces do though; so I'd suggest only making the ships available as prototypes that you get from special missions, not generally available in every terran shipyard.

I hope all that made sense?

Edit: Although I would like to say that you seem to be requesting a LOT of bomber docking for a mere M7...I tend to give M1s 2 bomber slots, and M7 carriers only 1. The reasons for this are:

1. The only way to accommodate external clamps is to add more overall docking. That means that if you add 4 external clamps you have to add 4 more docking slots to the ship. This can greatly unbalance certain ships. For instance a Boron Orca TL normally has 10 slots while a Split Elephant TL hs 14 in vanilla. Thought of differently the Elephant has 40% more docking to offset some of the deficiencies it has relative to the Orca. If however you add 6 slots to both then it's 16 vs 20 -> the elephant only gets 25% more docking, but the same deficiencies...that is effectively an Elephant nerf, if you follow. Thus the easiest way to maintain inter-class balance is to only add as few docking slots as necessary.

2. As of this moment I've not managed to separate bomber docking from universal docks. If it takes a bomber it can take an M6 or a TS or a TM...This can wildly unbalance things too. For instance the one downside of the split Panther vs a true M1 is that it doesn't really have the cargo bay to support a full flight wing with missiles and ammo. If you let it dock 4 TS, this is no longer an issue and suddenly there's no real reason to get a real M1... (I did let it dock a TS, but no bombers though to sort of account for this issue...)

[irR4tiOn4L]

I really like what this mod does, is it possible to use it with MARS? Do i have to do anything special to get it to work with my 1.4 game?

Yep, MARS support is built in. I want to be clear that I'm not trying to be snarky with what I'm about to say--read it in a good natured tone =) :

It says that MARS is supported in second paragraph of the first post. PLEASE be sure to read that full post carefully. Most (admittedly not all ) problems people have had have been a direct result of them not reading the first post carefully enough.

Again, no snark, just preemptive advice. =)

Anyway, to get MARS working all you have to do is install the script package for it (not the repair drone mod, it's already a part of BSD Core). At least in the general case. You however have a special case with a 1.4 game.

You have two options here. One is untested and probably wont work, but is really easy. The other requires a lot of work on your part...

The easy way is to just try and install it according to the directions in the first post and see what happens. I have no idea if it will work or not, but if it does work some of your ships WILL have different (2.1) stats than you've become accustomed to; but hey, easy install. In all liklihood it wont work though--you'll probably get some bullocks about a corrupted savegame. Don't worry about it, just remove the BSD related .cat/dats and everything should be back to normal (to anyone else reading this, this is not the proper uninstallation routine out of a savegame, it works here because at this point he would have failed have installed it in the first place).

If that didn't work, you have some work in front of you:

The issue is that BSD is built on a 2.1 TShips file. In order to get it to work with 1.4 compatibility you will have to merge it with your 1.4 TShips. I do not personally support this because it is already a significant amount of work to maintain just what I already have and doubling it just not possible with the time I have. I already have a number of different versions and resolving all issues that arise can be something of a pain (I try my hardest though ). Here is what you should do:

1. Use DoubleShadow's ModManager ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220964 ) to open the highest numbered .cat file in your X3TC Directory. Extract the \types\tships file somewhere.

2. Use the ModManageer to open the BSDCore .cat file and extract the whole thing somewhere.

3. Within the BSDCore extracted area you should find in the \types directory a file called TShips Minimally modified. Edit this with DoubleShadow's X3 Editor ( http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=220438 ) (Or by hand if you know what you're doing--it will go faster but takes some knowledge).

4. Concurrently open the vanilla TShips that you extracted from your X3: TC directory.

5. For every ship record that exists in your 1.4 file (there will be a few more records in BSD than your 1.4 file since some ships were added since 1.4) edit your 1.4 file so that the number of docking slots matches the number of docking slots in BSD. Also check to make sure that the ship scene (the model used for the ship--the declaration for it should be in one of the tabs along the top of the X3 Editor) matches the BSD file for ships which have had external docking added by BSD.

6. Go to all of the drone records in your 1.4 file and add, I believe, the Mobile Drilling System to it's compatible main gun list. This adds repair laser (read: MARS) compatibility.

7. Save your 1.4 TShips in such a way as to OVERWRITE the tships in the unpacked BSD \types\ directory.

8. Repack the whole unpacked BSDCore into a new .cat/dat pair using the ModManager.

9. Install as per the directions in the first post.

It's a lot of work ( which is why you're doing it and not me , also I don't have a 1.4 tships), but it should work. If it doesn't, I'm sorry but that's the extent to which I'm willing to support 1.4 atm--I barely get to actually play X3 as it is. I hope you understand. :-\

Edit: Note that this will only port BSDCore. If you want cockpits you're going to also have to ensure that the cockpit scene designators match in your tships, if you do that you can just drop BSDCockpits in as well at that point. BSDBugfix and BSDBalance are a whole 'nother can of worms though that will each require signficant porting. Of the two Balance should be the easiest (just add the changes you like to the tships as you're following the procedure above). Bug fix I wouldn't even attempt tbh.

Thanks!

Sigh, unfortunately, im an idiot. Im actually already on the latest version of the game (2.1), i just thought the latest version was 1.4 (Steam autoupdates do this to you!), so i think i just royally wasted your time!

Thankfully, im sure your post will make excellent reference for anyone else with that problem, however. Apologies though; i meant to ask if i can just install your mod with my 2.1 game, and if i need to do anything special with MARS compatibility.

With MARS, should i leave the 'drones mod' out? I presume i should, since it edits tships which yours has to as well?

EDIT: oh wow, this adds cockpits as well? Perfect mod, solves my biggest beefs! Ill make sure to read the instructions youve provided much more carefully!

[Alkeena]

Stuff

Thanks!

Sigh, unfortunately, im an idiot. Im actually already on the latest version of the game (2.1), i just thought the latest version was 1.4 (Steam autoupdates do this to you!), so i think i just royally wasted your time!

Thankfully, im sure your post will make excellent reference for anyone else with that problem, however. Apologies though; i meant to ask if i can just install your mod with my 2.1 game, and if i need to do anything special with MARS compatibility.

With MARS, should i leave the 'drones mod' out? I presume i should, since it edits tships which yours has to as well?

Again, please read the first post of this thread you'll find all the relevant instructions pertaining to installing BSD into a savegame as well as interoperability with MARS. The short answer is yes, you can install into a savegame, make sure to follow the directions precisely; and yes, it works with MARS but you should NOT install the MARS drone mod. It is already included.

Edit: I see I got ninja edited
Seriously, really read all the instructions closely or you will break something in your game >.>

Edit 2: Also be sure to thank PSCO1 for the cockpits. He did all the hard work on that one, I just made it compatible and easy to install with BSD.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Stuff

Thanks!

Sigh, unfortunately, im an idiot. Im actually already on the latest version of the game (2.1), i just thought the latest version was 1.4 (Steam autoupdates do this to you!), so i think i just royally wasted your time!

Thankfully, im sure your post will make excellent reference for anyone else with that problem, however. Apologies though; i meant to ask if i can just install your mod with my 2.1 game, and if i need to do anything special with MARS compatibility.

With MARS, should i leave the 'drones mod' out? I presume i should, since it edits tships which yours has to as well?

Again, please read the first post of this thread you'll find all the relevant instructions pertaining to installing BSD into a savegame as well as interoperability with MARS. The short answer is yes, you can install into a savegame, make sure to follow the directions precisely; and yes, it works with MARS but you should NOT install the MARS drone mod. It is already included.

Edit: I see I got ninja edited
Seriously, really read all the instructions closely or you will break something in your game >.>

Edit 2: Also be sure to thank PSCO1 for the cockpits. He did all the hard work on that one, I just made it compatible and easy to install with BSD.

Will do, thanks! I noticed earlier that the cockpit mod is supported, not included; i hadnt realised there WAS a cockpit mod for TC, last one i saw was beta and not working properly!

Ill get it all installed and give you feedback once ive had some hands-on time

[PSCO1]

Alkeena , i have checked your files
-u use an old version of my mod (v1.13)
-u must make a choice to choose "...Xenon_scene.. " files between 11.cat or 09.cat

2 files could be delete on 1 of both cat:

objects\ships\xenon\xenon_m5_scene.bod
objects\ships\xenon\xenon_M6M_scene.bod

EDIT : maybe u have notive that with all scene files of your .cat files

[Alkeena]

I used the version available for download on 8/20/09. I'll upgrade to the version you just released a few days ago when I release BSD v1.2 in a week or so.

Edit:

-u must make a choice to choose "...Xenon_scene.. " files between 11.cat or 09.cat

2 files could be delete on 1 of both cat:

objects\ships\xenon\xenon_m5_scene.bod
objects\ships\xenon\xenon_M6M_scene.bod

Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Could you please explain a little more? Yes they appear in both BSDCore as well as the cockpit module, but the cockpit module will simply take precedence and use the scene files there (presuming everything is installed as per the instructions). They're there because they were there in your original cockpit mod as you seemed to have moved the cockpit views slightly relative to the positioning in my default scenes. I decided to give your version precedence considering yours was the cockpit mod and I didn't want to muck with it. I just made it so that they were only used if the cockpit module was installed.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Alkeena , i have checked your files
-u use an old version of my mod (v1.13)
-u must make a choice to choose "...Xenon_scene.. " files between 11.cat or 09.cat

2 files could be delete on 1 of both cat:

objects\ships\xenon\xenon_m5_scene.bod
objects\ships\xenon\xenon_M6M_scene.bod

EDIT : maybe u have notive that

Btw, thanks very much for the cockpits! Theres nothing i miss from X2 more!

[Alkeena]

Tried to ninja edit my last comment and failed. If you didn't see an edit before go back and read it again. =)

[PSCO1]

Also, I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Could you please explain a little more? Yes they appear in both BSDCore as well as the cockpit module, but the cockpit module will simply take precedence and use the scene files there (presuming everything is installed as per the instructions). They're there because they were there in your original cockpit mod as you seemed to have moved the cockpit views slightly relative to the positioning in my default scenes. I decided to give your version precedence considering yours was the cockpit mod and I didn't want to muck with it. I just made it so that they were only used if the cockpit module was installed.

ahh ok Alkeena so its all right !
it was a bit weird to see those scene files on both cat
if the game load 1 of those both files it's ok
thx for the quick replies

@irR4tiOn4L:
thx for the support !!

[someone else]

have you tried to build a complex? my mod the last time I added a "Dummies" file to do something made the game go CTD when you add the Complex kits.

After I integrated your mod a guy reported a CTD for the same exact reason. Can you look if your mod makes the game CTD when connecting fabs with Complex Kits?

i did not touch your "dummies" file, just dropped it in.

[Madtrack]

I built a lot of complexes without problems since I installed the mod, so I'm not sure it comes from this one, might have been lucky tho

I forgot to give further feedback, I had this installed for a while now, and I did not notice major problems, a couple of things I found

-Sometimes, when undocking a TS from a capital ship, you loose throttle control for a while, then it comes back (~30 secs), not sure if it is caused by your mod, or if you can even fix it, but it only happens with the new docking slots, it's not very annoying tho

- when docking at a tokyo, the ship goes through the structure of the ship and down into the clamp, instead of down under the ship and up into the clamp

- Same with the forward docks on the MMBS

Otherwise very nice mod

[Alkeena]

have you tried to build a complex? my mod the last time I added a "Dummies" file to do something made the game go CTD when you add the Complex kits.

After I integrated your mod a guy reported a CTD for the same exact reason. Can you look if your mod makes the game CTD when connecting fabs with Complex Kits?

i did not touch your "dummies" file, just dropped it in.

I just tested this:

Linking Factories Into A Complex
http://imgur.com/P0Tkr.jpg
[ external image ]

Successfully Built
http://imgur.com/E2V9x.jpg
[ external image ]

Proof That It Was Done In BSD
http://imgur.com/qLu2N.jpg
[ external image ]

This issue is confirmed by me personally as well as Madtrack to not be present in BSD. It must be something arising out of what you've done. Sorry :-\

What exact complex was he trying to build?

[Alkeena]

I built a lot of complexes without problems since I installed the mod, so I'm not sure it comes from this one, might have been lucky tho

I forgot to give further feedback, I had this installed for a while now, and I did not notice major problems, a couple of things I found

-Sometimes, when undocking a TS from a capital ship, you loose throttle control for a while, then it comes back (~30 secs), not sure if it is caused by your mod, or if you can even fix it, but it only happens with the new docking slots, it's not very annoying tho

- when docking at a tokyo, the ship goes through the structure of the ship and down into the clamp, instead of down under the ship and up into the clamp

- Same with the forward docks on the MMBS

Otherwise very nice mod

Thanks for the feedback!

I'll take a look at these and see what I can do about them for v1.2 =)

Edit:

-Sometimes, when undocking a TS from a capital ship, you loose throttle control for a while, then it comes back (~30 secs), not sure if it is caused by your mod, or if you can even fix it, but it only happens with the new docking slots, it's not very annoying tho

Can you be a little more specific? Is it for a particular TS or capital ship? Anything consistent between occurances?

[Madtrack]

Can you be a little more specific? Is it for a particular TS or capital ship? Anything consistent between occurances?

Wish I could, like I said the only consistent thing is that it only happens on the new docking clamps, I got the problem undocking from different ships (M1/M2/TL) using different classes (TS/TP/M3)

I'm not sure the cause lies within your mod or if it even can be fixed as I said earlier, maybe it's just a vanilla bug, or maybe my system

Did you ever had the problem ? the throttle doesn't respond to anything, joystick or keyboard, it's rather weird

If no-one else reports the problem I guess it should be safe to assume it's something else

[Alkeena]

I haven't personally had the problem, no. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist though. I'd be inclined to simply write it off to a peculiarity of your system but if it happens if and only if you're using one of my docks then I have a responsibility to at least investigate it. That said, until I can get it into a reproducible state it's going to be very tough to track down. I'll see what I can find though.

The only thing I could possibly think of is that some of the docks I made give you a good push out. For instance undocking an M5 from a Heavy Centaur should (by design) push you down and away from the Centaur. Your controls may be a little sluggish there because you'll be moving in a direction other than the one you're pointing in and will have to overcome inertia a bit. That should last a second or two tops though, not 30 seconds...

I'll definitely watch very closely for this though. Hopefully if it pops up for you again it wont be too troublesome until I can get it tracked down...

[Madtrack]

PSC01 just told that it has happened for him since X3R on the hyperion, and that it also happens on shipyards and such in TC

I skipped X3R when my game started freezing (v1.3) so I wouldn't know since the hyperion was added later, but I'll try to reproduce it on shipyards tommorow so your mod can be ruled-out.

In all likeliness I'd say the problem occurs if you try and iterfere with the push up/down/back effect, I'll try to confirm it

So hopefully it has nothing to do with your mod