[Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 2.2

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Hairless-Ape
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Sun, 8. Jan 23, 18:40

Hector0x wrote:
Sun, 8. Jan 23, 14:48
aurelcourt wrote:
Sun, 8. Jan 23, 13:35
Also @Hector just want to show some appreciation for the work you're doing, I love the way it makes the game an actual management/strategy game, with a real polish layer on all the tedious micro-management bits...

If you could do all that with X4... I'm sure the audience would be in the 1000s or more ! 😜😀
Right now i'm about to force myself into some X downtime. Its fun and all, but i notice that last year i spent way too much time with X3. After the next patch there will only be bugfixing support for at least a few months.
I am possibly going to pick-up some further enhancements to Zero-Hour during this period, with Hector's approval and support. At present, I'm waiting to hear from him to see if our interests and vision aligns, so it's not a done deal.
I have the opposite problem Hector has; I've been programming for nearly 3 decades by trade, but my knowledge of X3 scripting and the game environment is very little compared to what Hector knows. I've only done minor enhancements to my own install to date.

Also, I'd like to say I agree totally with Hector about X4. Of particular interest to me is dynamic sector generation, similar to what Joubarbe produced for Mayhem, but X4 is a very different beast with a very different level of mod support, so I'm not sure I want to (or can) tackle it.


cheers.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Sun, 8. Jan 23, 22:02

Cool to hear that!!

What are your interests and visions for this mod? Very curious to hear what great plans could be cooking up behind the scenes!!

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Darkternal » Mon, 9. Jan 23, 07:07

Some more bugs:
1. Architect loses it's assignation, when manual commanded return home, it's name becomes "null" at administration panel. (Don't remember when it happens: after command or after return)
2. Energy cells given by solar panels perk are not count at logistics overview screen (or it called production overview - can not see it right now, it's overview where production and consumption are shown) .

And one suggestion: can u add command to drop jump beacon at certain position? (manual placing takes lot of time)
Last edited by Darkternal on Tue, 10. Jan 23, 14:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Hairless-Ape » Mon, 9. Jan 23, 13:17

aurelcourt wrote:
Sun, 8. Jan 23, 22:02
Cool to hear that!!
What are your interests and visions for this mod? Very curious to hear what great plans could be cooking up behind the scenes!!
There are a lot of "quality of life" enhancements that I'd like to make, but won't list yet. I have only started a list but would gather more suggestions if this were to happen.
One good example of would be the ability to tell a ship or a fleet to move to a sector and attack all enemies without having to make that 2 commands and being forced to track when they arrive. Similarly, the ability to drop satellites, or stations in a target system without being forced to make that multiple commands. This is just a single example out of many.

Of primary interest however, would be adding a new parallel story line. Something fun and interesting but not overly complicated. Something you could turn off if you wanted to, but if on, would add a bit of spice and drama. Again, for now, keeping it to myself, but needless to say, I have some goals for such a first release if it were to proceed.
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Alexeiy » Mon, 9. Jan 23, 19:46

Hello,

I think I found a or the bug in my game. All Terran outposts have 0/0 hull and are empty voids. 2 Boron battlegroups piled onto one of these voids OOS and entering the sector would lead to an instant crash...

I assume there is no easy way to fix this and will go for a full reinstall.

On another note: M7M's are ridicilously strong and just 8 little minotaurs are enough to annihilate enemy battle groups.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Tue, 10. Jan 23, 08:58

Bug report...?

Using the Reinforcement feature for my fleets, new ships are built, but never seem to join their fleets.
Could it be that as the leader was killed and replaced automatically, the ships don't know anymore which leader to join?

Thanks in advance,
Aurélien


Save+Galaxy

Image

edit : added galaxy
Last edited by aurelcourt on Tue, 10. Jan 23, 20:24, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Darkternal » Tue, 10. Jan 23, 11:42

Hector0x wrote:
Sun, 8. Jan 23, 11:58
Alexeiy wrote:
Sun, 8. Jan 23, 11:07
here you go. 5 min have passed.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SqGE3x ... sp=sharing

But there is definitely some installation issue. Its likely that you run into similar issues again. I'm not sure what went wrong.

Of course it could also be me who has made some mistake. Maybe a discrepancy between my installation and what i upload for the public. There don't seem to be many ZH players so errors like that could go unnoticed. Files could be missing or just be different on my system. But i feel like there would be a few more bugreports if this was the case. And i'm frequently doing reinstalls with the public version after each patch.
So i think the error is probably on your end. If you want to try again you should do the entire jazz with a complete reinstall on steam, unsubscribing from all bonus packs, etc. etc.
In my situation first install was a full install clean x3->litcube->mayhem3->zero hour, and i got freeze. The second installation was with repack by alexalsp: clean x3->repack, and it's going well. Also i noticed that some ships parameters were changed (for example sattelites loaded damaged, looks like they had less hp at previous install). In both installations I used same clean x3, which I dowloaded from steam. So in my opinion there is some typical unknown mistake which people do while installaton (very long installation, which includes many steps btw).

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Darkternal » Tue, 10. Jan 23, 13:24

I'm watching ur youtube videos about mod where you explain ship and laser compendium. There is mod, called Ship Browser, which gives more functionality to find best lasers for you ship (you can choose a ship and change lasers on menu screen to see it's params) or find ship you want (for example you can filter ship by laser can be equipped). There is mod version at 5th page for LU. Works fine with lu and mayhem.
Also about laser compendium, can you add bullet speed to it?

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by alexalsp » Tue, 10. Jan 23, 18:58

aurelcourt wrote:
Tue, 10. Jan 23, 08:58
(how do I send the galaxy?)
mayhem_galaxies in the root folder game.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Tue, 10. Jan 23, 20:24

alexalsp wrote:
Tue, 10. Jan 23, 18:58
aurelcourt wrote:
Tue, 10. Jan 23, 08:58
(how do I send the galaxy?)
mayhem_galaxies in the root folder game.
Thanks, I edited my earlier message :-)

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Hector0x » Wed, 11. Jan 23, 16:01

aurelcourt wrote:
Tue, 10. Jan 23, 08:58
Using the Reinforcement feature for my fleets, new ships are built, but never seem to join their fleets.
Could it be that as the leader was killed and replaced automatically, the ships don't know anymore which leader to join?
When i add unlimited resources to your Outpost it starts to build the missing lasers/shields for the 4 Perseus who are still waiting to get equipped with template 'M3 - Perseus Mk2'. Once that is finished they equip themselves and join a fleet. Then the Outpost orders more Perseus to top each fleet up to 11 fighters like intended.

To me it looks like you might have built those other 6 Perseus which are just sitting in the Outpost yourself. They're not part of the fleet. It doesn't seem like their construction was ordered by the fleet commanders as reinforcements.

Try Cheat menu > switch target object > select Cho's Defeat Outpost > keep factory/dock stocked: ON and wait if all your fleets get topped up to full strength.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Wed, 11. Jan 23, 17:04

It's no biggie anyways, thanks for checking ! :)
I was also pointing it out because I saw the new renaming expected for v10, and assumed maybe that could also have an impact there...

About your troubleshooting:
I'm pretty sure though that these ships hadn't previously been built by myself.
If further investigation is required (but... is it really? :roll: ), I'd look into the new leader assignment, as I know that 2 of the 3 fleet leaders were killed during this engagement...?

What about auto-reinforcing and new fleet leader assigned :
- before new ships order ?
- ships ordered but waiting for resources ?
- during ships building ?
- ships built but waiting for template ?
- template applied but ships not joined yet ?
- maybe other cases I'm can't figure out (I'm no coder at all) :)


Looking forward to new version :D
Last edited by aurelcourt on Wed, 11. Jan 23, 20:00, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Hector0x » Wed, 11. Jan 23, 18:14

aurelcourt wrote:
Wed, 11. Jan 23, 17:04
What about auto-reinforcing and new fleet leader assigned :
- before new ships order ?
- ships ordered but waiting for resources ?
- during ships building ?
- ships built but waiting for template ?
- template applied but ships not joined yet ?
Looks like you're right. I didn't dig in super deep into Joubarbe's code regarding this, but apparently its NOT updated when the leader switch happens during
- Outpost waiting for resources (ship ordered in backlog)
- during building
- ship waiting for lasers/shields (template)

So if you use fragile commanders it seems best to keep your Outpost well stocked before using the reinforcement feature so that it always goes quick and smooth. Zero Hour slightly improves this issue because building is generally faster and fleet leaders slow down if their followers lag behind. Its a bit less likely that they rush into battle alone and die.

Adding proper fleet leader switching for pending reinforcements seems like a major headache. For now i'm putting it into the 'unfortunate but not gamebreaking' category. The only real issue seems that over time active fighter fleets can sometimes cause a few more unassigned fighters to get parked at your Outpost.

EDIT: your usage of 3 monitoring fleets for defense makes me wonder if monitoring fighter fleets should not go after enemies that are already being targeted by another fighter fleet. Right now they all gang up on the same enemies. If they would spread out they could hunt small targets more effective. But then you could also just assign different sectors for them to monitor.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Wed, 11. Jan 23, 20:00

Hector0x wrote:
Wed, 11. Jan 23, 18:14
For now i'm putting it into the 'unfortunate but not gamebreaking' category.
Yeah clearly not game breaking.
Hector0x wrote:
Wed, 11. Jan 23, 18:14
EDIT: your usage of 3 monitoring fleets for defense.
Yep I was actually curious to see how they'd react...
Seems sometimes they group up and chase the same pirates, sometimes they split up... can't really tell whether it's random or purposeful.

The absolute best thing would be to have a dedicated fleet to monitor a couple of sectors, and dispatch forces accordingly (per the threat ratio I guess...). But that's another new level of complexity... where each fleet could have dedicated battle groups, with priority targets and no-go targets for each BG. That would encourage the use different kinds of weapons...
And while that would work for a major engagement (in a way kind of like MLCC iirc), the fleet could also dispatch different BGs to different monitored sectors according to threat...
That would require some sort of command ships ...

I'm getting wild :wink:
For patch 1.11 ? :D

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Thu, 12. Jan 23, 18:08

Is there a way the orders for the Architect TL could be completed in the order they are requested ?

It seems currently the TL checks every station one by one and orders the stations in the order it finds them, even if other orders have been pending for a much longer time.

It's no big deal for the small stations, but when there is a couple of research stations involved, it can slow down your industry ramp up quite significantly.

Instead of having a per-station backlog, there could be a global backlog from where the TL would get the orders.
And if possible even a checkmark for a "priority build", which would put the following order(s) on top of the queue... ?


Aurélien

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Thu, 12. Jan 23, 18:16

Other request :

Could it be possible to have a collapsible/expandable view for the outpost menu? I feel like I need a clearer view in this menu where I go every minute or so almost...

Once you start having a couple of outposts, it gets difficult to reach the one you want to then build your ships, stations...

Ideally we could toggle for each of them which "links" to display, (or display none at all).
We could have that in the Admin menu of each outpost, below the show/hide perks/workers, a set of toggles to show/hide the ships/stations/lasers(...) links in the outpost menu.

?

Aurélien

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by Hector0x » Fri, 13. Jan 23, 07:04

aurelcourt wrote:
Thu, 12. Jan 23, 18:08
Is there a way the orders for the Architect TL could be completed in the order they are requested ?
Possible, but it would require a major rework of how the orders get saved. Too much work right now.
aurelcourt wrote:
Thu, 12. Jan 23, 18:16
Other request :

Could it be possible to have a collapsible/expandable view for the outpost menu? I feel like I need a clearer view in this menu where I go every minute or so almost...

Once you start having a couple of outposts, it gets difficult to reach the one you want to then build your ships, stations...

Ideally we could toggle for each of them which "links" to display, (or display none at all).
We could have that in the Admin menu of each outpost, below the show/hide perks/workers, a set of toggles to show/hide the ships/stations/lasers(...) links in the outpost menu
I recommed to color your Outposts (additional commands) to sort this list.

UI modding is very clunky. Your suggestion is viable and not too difficult to implement.
But it would make more sense to move the entire mod over to Farnham's Legend to get far superior menu features with collapsible lists and tabs, etc. It could even integrate the current Outpost list into the property screen.

But a FL port seems like a rabbit hole because M3 uses a lot of LU stuff which all needs to get replaced with the FL equavilent.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.9a

Post by aurelcourt » Fri, 13. Jan 23, 10:29

Thanks for your replies :)

Never tried FL. Is it worth a try while waiting for X4 6.0 ?

But yeah as you say, if the UI work is much easier there, I guess that would be a required step...

I tried for a while the mod Star Wars Interworlds for X4, and it does requires all the DLC, nobody complained about that.

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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10

Post by Hairless-Ape » Fri, 13. Jan 23, 17:55

Why would one want to build OCV ships with all the negatives that come with doing that?
Is there something in particular you would benefit far more from building those than your own ship types? Just curious what the strategy is here other than it being cool.

Only thing I can think of is to build them cheaply and suicide them into some enemy very quickly, otherwise they just betray you if you keep them around?
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Re: [Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 1.10

Post by Hector0x » Fri, 13. Jan 23, 18:07

Hairless-Ape wrote:
Fri, 13. Jan 23, 17:55
Why would one want to build OCV ships with all the negatives that come with doing that?
Is there something in particular you would benefit far more from building those than your own ship types? Just curious what the strategy is here other than it being cool.

Only thing I can think of is to build them cheaply and suicide them into some enemy very quickly, otherwise they just betray you if you keep them around?
1) they're super cheap
2) you can dump them close to your enemies
3) for 2.0 i plan to allow the player to befriend the OCV, but only if you accept the negatives and build lots of these ships to show your dedication

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