[X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

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dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Tue, 27. Oct 20, 18:52

Hector0x wrote:
Mon, 26. Oct 20, 18:29
*st for ship type. Also *h for homebase.

The global ship naming screen (open from player console) has a list of all expressions.
Oops, I missed that. Thanks for the pointer.

Another Oops: I couldn't type "s" or "w" in any text field, which made using *st a bit tricky. It turned out that some idiot had mapped "cursor down" to "s" and "cursor up" to "w" - don't know why, but it probably seemed like a good idea when I did it.
:doh: :oops:

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alexalsp
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by alexalsp » Wed, 28. Oct 20, 18:17

Favorgalaxy wrote:
Sun, 25. Oct 20, 15:37
VaVylon wrote:
Sun, 25. Oct 20, 10:18
Greetings guys!
Have one problem: all factions in my galaxy didn't want to sell me any ship from outpost. It always tell: this faction cannot fullfill this order at the moment". Outposts which I checked have enough resources to produce 10 ships, so it's look like a bug (or maybe I didn't see something :/). At same time, when I try to buy the ship and press the button, it's going to production queue despite that faction didn't want to sell it to me. And when production of ship finished - it appers in outpost but stay in property of faction.
Have anybody seen something like that?

I have start 3.4d with clear generated galaxy. But using translation mod (Russian language).
Here save-file and galaxy:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/12C63-7 ... sp=sharing
Учитывая что ты явно с Ру, поэтому напишу так, эта проблема только в русской локализации, я сам с этим столкнулся. Ошибка где-то в скрипте обработки покупки. Можешь писать alexalsp который видимо и занимается переводом. либо как я перейти на англ версию и не париться, в ней это работает)

Translation for others. the problem is the locale ru
Given that you are clearly from Ru, so I will write this, this problem is only in Russian localization, I myself encountered this. An error somewhere in the script processing the purchase. You can write alexalsp, which is probably responsible for translation. or how do I switch to the English version and not worry, it works in it)
FIXED

Image

All questions about the Russian version of the mod only here, here and here.

Notos60
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Notos60 » Mon, 2. Nov 20, 02:39

Loving the mod so far but I am experiencing a few issues. My biggest is how quickly the A.i switches relations causing a bunch of minor annoyances that I cannot seem to stop unless I scrap all ships effected. I.e if I attack an enemy I'm permanently at war with while another race signs a truce with their ships in the same sector they are forever hostile to some of my ships. They will flash red/ally but will continually chase my units and end up attacking if close enough. I notice this more with task force groups and the only solution is to recycle the ship :evil:.

This is even more annoying when they border an enemy faction, as their patrols are frequent enough to be affected. I do not find retreating/recycling to be fun at all to avoid war with everyone and is really slowing my game down. Hot/normal sector status also funks with the race relations. Lastly the xenon and the rep it gives breaks permanent war rep leaving me essentially allied with my enemies :lol:.

Now phase 1 shenanigans, one xenon sector was tucked away in the corner of my galaxy behind a dozen jumps of hostile sectors. My mistake was waiting too long as they seem to reach a feedback loop that just decimates the AI and makes clearing them out a real slog, they now went from 1 to 10 (span of a few hours) and as soon as any of my fleets get within range they send out a targeted wave, However its several waves untop of each other almost like half of their sectors instantly builds 50+ P's 150~ L/LX I have enough time to kill the wave (taking some losses) and cap 1 xenon sector but then another equally as powerful is sent right after (they also claimed another sector in the meantime) literally 5-6 sectors currently filled with xenon and the other races cannot fight back effectively I wonder if my play through is boned haha. Even with 20 player sectors Xenon should not be able to cheat in so many ships continuously. Other races should be able to place jump beacons otherwise they cannot defend even moderately sized empires properly.

Otherwise fun mod :)

shanbahak
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by shanbahak » Mon, 2. Nov 20, 22:19

So far.
I really like most changes compared to Mayhem 2~
Things got slower in terms of economy, but remained fast in skirmishes, like if you go 4+ sectors, Xenons will start hitting whole universe pretty hard - they spam a lot of fighters and m6, and large section of universe is getting crushed really fast. They attack like, 10 sectors at same time with different fleets. And thats only 5 player sectors on normal difficulty.
Cant wait to meet OCV.

About letdowns, i would say it will be whole terran research stuff. They're losing to Split too heavily, so not worth to even bother finding good terran memory spots.
Cougar & Mamba for M3, Tempestine for M6, Acinonyx for M7, Ocelot for M2. Maaaan, its pretty sad, i wish terran stuff was at least worth researching.

Betelgeuse97
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Betelgeuse97 » Wed, 4. Nov 20, 07:45

shanbahak wrote:
Mon, 2. Nov 20, 22:19
So far.
I really like most changes compared to Mayhem 2~
Things got slower in terms of economy, but remained fast in skirmishes, like if you go 4+ sectors, Xenons will start hitting whole universe pretty hard - they spam a lot of fighters and m6, and large section of universe is getting crushed really fast. They attack like, 10 sectors at same time with different fleets. And thats only 5 player sectors on normal difficulty.
Cant wait to meet OCV.

About letdowns, i would say it will be whole terran research stuff. They're losing to Split too heavily, so not worth to even bother finding good terran memory spots.
Cougar & Mamba for M3, Tempestine for M6, Acinonyx for M7, Ocelot for M2. Maaaan, its pretty sad, i wish terran stuff was at least worth researching.
Xenon attack once every hour, sending 1 fleet. I think in your case you had many fleets pile up since NPCs couldn't wipe them out. I too like Mayhem 3 over 2, as one of the things I didn't like about X3 was the absence of a real economy. (It was a simulated economy, but in actuality the NPCs didn't even need factories for themselves; in Mayhem 3, they do.)

For ships:

- For combat ships, I'd disagree on M3 unless you want to use some for chasing (in which case I agree that Split M3s are better in that area). Terran M3s have the most energy efficient weapon for damage (EMPC). The Falchion, Verdandi, and Arrow are all good choices for durable and strong Terran M3s considering they effectively fire 10 guns in the front (and 2 in the back), all while having 5 shields.

- Everything else I agree. I wish Terran guns have better usability since they're locked to only Terran, Xenon ships (shame that some Xenon ships are BETTER than Terran ones), and a very few commonwealth ships.

BigBadBill_87
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by BigBadBill_87 » Fri, 6. Nov 20, 19:44

Hello - Newbie here

I'm trying to work out why there's no Terran Faction? The others are in the game, but no Terrans from what I can see,

Were they too OP or something?

Regards

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Fri, 6. Nov 20, 19:58

BigBadBill_87 wrote:
Fri, 6. Nov 20, 19:44
why there's no Terran Faction?
I think because ATF/Terran friendship is hardlocked and also because their ships were always difficult to balance against all other factions. In Mayhem 2 they often ended up conquering the whole galaxy. I once saw 1 Terran Battlegroup beating 2 almost full strength Argon Battlegroups at the same time. Mayhem 3 ship balancing is different, so having a single Terran faction could actually work well.

They are turned off, but the player can still unlock Terran/ATF ships.

shanbahak
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by shanbahak » Sat, 7. Nov 20, 23:34

A lot of ships (and weapons) lost their value due to really high projectile speed.
Liiike, in both LU and earlier Mayhem you could dodge shots from capital-class cannons, sometimes even from OCV.
For example, pirate Exterminator M2 was pretty nice for in-sector battle with OCV.
Due to good speed, small size and high maneurability it could dodge good chunk of OCV M2 shots, actually staying in battle longer than excalibur / ocelot / tobosaku and other huge stuff.
It also worked for small and fast M6 ships, and some M7.

However. Currently, speed lost most value for M7-M2-M1 ships - because capital-class weapons have highest projectile speed in game.
Fast ships have less shields, but they cant evade attacks so they're less useful.

Small ships still can evade some stuff due to projectile spread, but OCV have less spread, so...
M6 are useless against them, and M3 will die, a lot.

Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 10:36

The Tobusaku was always a horrible ship in in-sector-combat. It looks incredibly nice, just like the Solaris, but it suffers from the same issue the Cyclops, Excalibur and Valhalla suffer from: it is so big that it draws more fire than it dishes out. Rule of thumb for effective in-sector-combat will always be that the smallest ships with the highest amount of weapons are the most effective, although there are some other factors to add to the equation that do not show up on paper, which are, for example, things like target hardpoints and shape. Some of the Boron capital ships but most notably the Terran Tokyo have the strange attribute of causing many shots directed at them to miss because the AI targets the very most outer hardpoints of a ship, the very edge of a corner of the hull. Interestingly, the Tobusaku does not have this perk, and as such, it getting beaten way faster than the Ocelote, for example, which has that phenomenon at the engines. AI ships target the most outer point of the engines and as a result, miss the ship.

In out-of-sector combat, the Tobusaku will mop the floor with OCV except for the destroyers. When you build ships, it's important to think about how you want to fight the OCV. In in-sector-battles, you will profit from swarms of M5s backing up long-range capital ships. In oos-fights, swarms get eaten up ten times faster and capital ships last considerably longer since range is not a factor for the combat calculus.

In both cases, M6s are useless, although the Boron Heavy Hydra is performing surprisingly good in in-sector-combat due to the shape, dodging many shots.
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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Hector0x » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 10:52

A general goal was to make capships beefier and very scary. And that's definitely the case to some extent. They got several adjustments. For example all ships got their hulls buffed to give them more staying power, because they usually can't jump to safety in Mayhem 3. Capships got exponentially more hull point growth than all other ship classes.

Then you have these fast capital projectiles. It's now very dangerous to approach large vessels in a smaller ship. Capships missing shots is rarer. I believe this also serves to somewhat reduce their performance gap between IS and OOS combat. In sector they can now hit fighters more often.

I really like how Mayhem 3's slower projectile speeds on smaller ships are affecting dogfights for the player. It made me realise how little enjoyment i got out of LU dogfights where it's way harder or even impossible to dodge shots and you have to stay away from the fun if you're sitting in a fighter. But just 1 enemy capship makes this way too risky right now.
For the next M3 playthrough i'm thinking about modding the heavy lasers back to slower speeds to get this feeling of being a fighter pilot in the middle of a battle again. And maybe also halving all missle costs to make them more viable against the overall NPC chaff spam. Just to see how it feels. If i can figure it out.

I'd also like to lower chaff trigger chances (anyone know how/where to adjust CCDS in LU's game files :?: ).

Mayhem 3 Capships get balanced by their lower speeds and the general absence of jump drives (at least for NPC's). They can't simply jump right into your sector anymore, but when they do show up the tension usually rises a bit :D

In reality it doesn't really matter what you throw against the enemy. Fighters don't get shredded by flak cannons. Small arms can also destroy capital ship hulls. Trying to implement a rock/paper/scissors balancing ends up being a huge mess. For this we would need Egosoft to implement an armor/dodge system first.
- armor value on larger ships which reduces damage taken by a certain %
- armor penetration on larger lasers which bypasses armor by some %
- dodge value on smaller ships which gives them a % chance to disable physics collisions against incoming large laser projectiles (so that the shot simply phases through the ship model without any impact even if it would've physically hit the ship)

Without such a system you can totally forget proper ship class or weapon balancing. It's simply beyond the scope of this engine. Right now we are just clumsily working around it by tinkering with projectile speeds and hull/shield damage. Trying to make ship classes at least a bit unique and interesting.

Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 12:09

And interesting they are, since you can differ between Light, Medium and Heavy of each ship class. Of course there are some issues that can't be overcome, like the 10k range fire trigger that caps all battles to happen within 10k range, and the fact that Mayhem 3 doesn't use, iirc, additional weapon perks (like AoE, shieldpenerations, slowdown, you might remember the things from vanilla). On the other hand, the AI is only so competent in using certain weapons, greatly reducing the weapon variety you could provide in a PvP environment (Snipe/Shotgun/Brrrrrrrrrt/Stinger/Ballistic/etc.).

I don't think there will ever be a perfect balancing, and it could be worse than now. That being said, the way Mayhem 3 works, there are only few factors that matter in certain combat scenarios, and since fighting the OCV pretty much demands the players to minmax or overpower the OCV with the best they can get, people will get the impression that specific ships like Split and Terran ships exceed against them.
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dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 15:19

Edna wrote:
Sun, 8. Nov 20, 10:36

the AI targets the very most outer hardpoints of a ship, the very edge of a corner of the hull. Interestingly, the Tobusaku does not have this perk, and as such, it getting beaten way faster than the Ocelote, for example, which has that phenomenon at the engines. AI ships target the most outer point of the engines and as a result, miss the ship.
How can one find out about these hardpoints? Is it just experience? I am specifically wondering about the Taipan - on paper 3 Taipans should be better than 2 Ocelots, while costing slightly less. Yes, the Ocelots would have half a dozen more guns, but they're pointing backwards, and the Taipans are faster, more manoeuvrable, and bring more fighters to the party.

EDIT: I just tried it OOS, 3 vs 2, default equipment, no fighters. They all died, so it looks pretty even.

EDIT 2: In sector, I just watched 3 Taipans defeat 2 Ocelots. 2 Taipans survived (which I didn't expect), at 100% and 32% hull remaining. The Taipans did seem to be targeting the bow and engines of the Ocelots, but I couldn't determine what the Ocelots were concentrating on, if anything.

Edna
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by Edna » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 17:50

What weapons did you give them?

I don't know what the 'idea' behind the hardpoint issue is. Some ships have it, some ships don't. I guess you'll just have to try it out in-sector. I know all the Ray, Shark and Megalodon have it at the tip, the Tokyo tip and rear, the Ocelote rear and I do believe the Osaka has it too, to a certain degree. It's also a thing with ships that have hitboxed antennae like some of the Xenon ships.
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dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 18:46

I just took the "install default wares" option when I created them using the cheat menu, i.e.:

Ocelot: PAA front and back; IBL up, down, and right; PPC left; assorted missiles.
Taipan: PAA front, left, and down; IBL right and back; PPC up; assorted missiles.

Seems a bit weird, but that's what I got.

dunderhead327
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 3.4d

Post by dunderhead327 » Sun, 8. Nov 20, 19:46

I tried it again - 3 Taipans vs 2 Ocelots, in sector, no fighters, no missiles, max shields, PPCs all round. The result was a bit more as expected - one Taipan survived, at 6% hull.

Previously, there was more manoeuvring but this time they just slugged it out.

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