[X3LU] Mayhem 3.0 RC

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nebbish
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by nebbish » Mon, 13. Jan 20, 18:26

Variety is fun, but at the moment when I think about choosing between ships in a class I tend to think between ability and economy. So really even though there are 20/30 ships each class I tend to think what's the best ability ship I can get for my resources. (For M3s this is generally something with 1 x 25M shield). If I build the best of the best most expensive ship of a class it will be because I fly it and not for my AI to control.

Is there any way you change the number of classes M1 to M8 or is this outside of scope of the game. I only ask because you seem to have been able to rewrite so much of the game. So for example

We have at the moment M1 to M8

Could you have new classes or rather subdivisions of the current classes.

Here's some random thoughts, these are more for my self then anything but I thought I would share.

M1 keep as the mighty battleship big sluggers vanilla.
Basically designed to kill M7s/M2s.

M2 Carriers for many fighters as in vanilla. Designed to deploy a distance away and support fighters from a distance.

M2A (A for assault) Carriers with limited slots for fighters but can carry M6/M8s and below. Maybe 4 each or so. Possibly make some M6 jump drive less so reliant on these ships to get about. Decent shields and weaponry for the frontline but weaker then M1.

M2L (Light) smaller capital carriers kinda mix between a M7 and TM. Carry maybe 15 fighters. Faster then other M2s but more limited shields and firepower maybe only 2 G shields. Maybe this should be a variant of the M7

M3S (S for sentry) Heavy fighter very slow very heavy shields heavy weapons for a fighter good tracking but limited range. Very slow for M3 so has difficulty getting into range. crazy slow best in defensive situations. Terrible for chasing ships down.

M3I (interceptor) your all rounder average shields weaponry and speed. Your vanilla M3

M3B (I for Bomber) Speedy but limited Weaponry and Shields. Built to launch missiles. Smaller version of M8 plenty of cargo space for function.

M3P ( Point defense) 2 turrets on each side (back,left,right,up,down etc.) Limited to point defense weapons. Useful escort for capitals against missiles. Fairly speedy and average shields.

M4 and M5s I am sure there could be some variants of. Not had time to think about this


M6F (Flak) faster but less shields then Vanilla M6. Can only fit flak weapons for anti fighter operations.

M6H (Heavy) Think the ion frigate of the homeworld series heavy weapons with limited tracking vulnerable to fighters but effective against capitals. But obviously the slower speed and shielding easily dispatched if targeted. No jumpdrives as weaponry takes up the extra space. need to be delivered into battle by the M2As

M6T (Tank) Your all rounder with very heavy shields able to engage both capitals and fighters but not as effective as the heavy and flak M6s at their respective jobs.

Again M7 and M8 kinda overlaps with the above classes. Maybe integrate these classes with the above.

New classes can be formed by thinking of useful combinations of weapon tracking range damage and the speed and defensive abilities of ships.

The above would require creating more limitations on what weapons fit on what ships in order to force classes in to being. Such as a flak M6 only be allowed high tracking high spread low DPS weapons. Again some of this classes are only useful for in sector combat because the way the game calculates out of sector some classes would be useless.

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Hector0x
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Hector0x » Mon, 13. Jan 20, 18:46

Implementing any kind of "rock-paper-scissors" system gets undermined by the game engine. Even in sector small targets get hit by capital class lasers when they chase a big ship. Fighters don't strafe or try to evade. Capships missing them happens mostly "by accident". Flak weapons deal the same amount of damage to bigger ships, the list goes on. I think Joubarbe is very limited in what he can do.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Mon, 13. Jan 20, 19:12

My goal is to reduce variety, so adding more classes is out of the question. I think the class system in X3 is pretty fine, each has its own goal and it's how you equip and manage them that refine their role.
I'm of the opinion of Hector0x in his first response.
OOS combat has always been too fast for me, and I'd like to make it way slower. Also, the main turret will be inferior to other turrets (in the choice of weapons), because the AI is pretty dumb when using it. I will probably increase shields, maybe hull, but that won't make the game that slower because of a change I already made: turrets are not able to shoot directly at missiles anymore. In all my games, I never care much for CCDS (the stuff that fires Chaff at incoming missiles), and this equipment needs to be important. This change should make combat faster, because with Missile Defense, missiles rarely hit (and it's so frustrating to see a M5 defending so well against several expensive missiles).
On a side note, retreat won't be impossible. It will be easier for the player, because you can bring a jump beacon or have a clever network of them. The AI will destroy them, but some sneaky tactics are possible.
I very much like the idea of huge ships being exceptionally good at destroying hulls.

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Shuulo
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 13. Jan 20, 21:13

Do you plan to release another version of Mayhem?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Mon, 13. Jan 20, 21:16

Of Mayhem 2? It's unlikely, but I don't know for sure.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 14. Jan 20, 17:35

Image

Mayhem 3 new Workers. All done! Thousands of them at acceptable performance (military scripts are not yet finished).

IceExplosive
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by IceExplosive » Tue, 14. Jan 20, 19:51

Is it possible to influence OOS combat scripts?
- slow down computation ticks to prolong combat
- hit chance based on projectile/ship speed ratio to help fighters survive longer
- scaling down laser damage
... anything?

Also thinking about hit chance... is there still room to lower projectile collision size even more to help fighters avoid bullets?

Making capital ship's weapons a lot better at hull damage sounds really really nice. -> and it will make it harder with a swarm of fighters for us. :-D

To me M1-M2 class are pretty much the same (I mean for example Terrans/ATF have Valhalla? ... which is a M2 with a bay for around 50-60 fighters? ... looks like the best of both worlds)
So maybe make it more Destroyer/Carrier focused?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Tue, 14. Jan 20, 20:22

There's no OOS combat script, it's all hardcoded. The only thing you can do is to modify the damage in-sector and out. That way you can modify the pace of combat, but nothing else much.
Modify collision size should be possible, but I don't know how. And that would not be my priority.

KurTr
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by KurTr » Tue, 14. Jan 20, 23:57

First of all, great mod. Tried x4 for a bit and ended up here :lol:

I either found a bug or Im missing something

So I set up a couple of UT's. After one trade they standby. First I assumed that they haven't found any good deals, but they sat there for one in game hours so I re-command the UT. After one trade run they immediately go standby. Right after they go standby, if I give the command, they go to trade again, but if I dont, they just sit there. Is this a bug or am i missing something.

And Its been a while since I last played, kinda forgot somethings. Do I need to set up a sat. network for the UT's or dock agents or anything for them to function properly?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 01:25

You need a sat. network indeed. And they respect the max. trade jumps of their homebase, if any (un-homebase them if you want them to be "free").

djmidex
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by djmidex » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 02:52

Joubarbe wrote:
Tue, 14. Jan 20, 17:35
Image

Mayhem 3 new Workers. All done! Thousands of them at acceptable performance (military scripts are not yet finished).
Well done!
There is a typo i suppose in "Agent" section "Output" instead of "Outpost", by the way, what is the workers default behavior to enemy attacks? Will they jump to a safe place?

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 09:27

Oops, thanks.
There's no jump allowed in Mayhem 3 (demonstration video), but for now, some of them will try to flee. It will be a good idea to escort them (AI will do that extensively).

Darkternal
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Darkternal » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 10:33

1. Will it possible to assign beacons to stations inventory?
2. How about defending beacons, I wrote in ADS thread about bug with attack all/defend position commands which stop working OOS. So it could be very difficult to defend it, because beacons have little health. How about to allow to build special OWP, which will serve as beacon?
3. Please. No, PLEASE. Allow us to build OCV ships in Mayhem 3 :)
4. How about implement ship browser mod, instead of ship compendium? They are both good, but first is more functional.
5. I noticed "substring" option for station filters in Mayhem 3 Showcase #2 video. Can u implement such filter in menu for global functions like global rename, global set homebase, etc.
6. Suggestion about expeditions and boarding: make something like ventures in x4 - marines get modules to tune ship stats. It would make boarding/expeditions more interesting and give players another goal to achieve. You wrote about ship diversity in same ship class. So, ships can be more similar to each other other, but player can make something special with modules. I assume it is a lot of coding, so it is just suggestion.
7. You made a lot of work with Mayhem. Did u think about contact with egosoft and publish it to steam as independent game? I would buy it.

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 11:37

1/ Not possible to assign beacons to stations or ships. They only work when deployed.
2/ I'm finding hard to believe that the command stops when OOS. Are you absolutely positive about that?
2b/ There's no OWP in Mayhem 3. But Lasertowers are back (no ring of fire, they are extremely expensive and powerful).
3/ Mayhem 3 will only have one main plot. Totally rewritten and rebalanced.
4/ Not going to happen, ship compendium is enough, and I don't want any external script in Mayhem 3. You can still install it on your own if you want.
5/ Will do.
6/ Not possible in X3 (if I understand you correctly). But marines also will change. Let's just say for now that it will be possible to make them pilots to improve their skills.
7/ Mayhem is based on X3, that's not an independent game. But you can make a donation! :)

Darkternal
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Darkternal » Wed, 15. Jan 20, 11:43

Joubarbe wrote:
Wed, 15. Jan 20, 11:37
2/ I'm finding hard to believe that the command stops when OOS. Are you absolutely positive about that?
Yes. Command not stops - it is still active. But ship not attacking anyone. Enemies just fly by OWP. OWP is blinking as being attacked but does not damage anybody. Same was with my cyclops in defend position command, being attacked by pirate m7. They were attacking each other, but cyclops did not damage m7. Reactivating command solves the problem for some time. I wrote more information in ASD thread. I will try to find suitable savegame later.

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