[X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

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Joubarbe
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Sat, 21. Sep 19, 20:25

Hairless-Ape wrote:
Sat, 21. Sep 19, 18:15
I know it's not what you asked for, but if you just want more perks, you can do this.
Open \Mayhem\Changed Scripts\addon\scripts\Mayhem.GetMaxPerks.xml
Modify:
$maxPerks = $maxPerks + $permanentEnemies
to look like:
$maxPerks = $maxPerks + $permanentEnemies + 3 (This shows 3 extra perks, but use however many you want)

Recommend you use X-Studio to edit the file, but you could edit the XML directly with a text editor if you feel brave.
Yeah, don't do that, you will break things. Use X3\addon\9972-L044.xml. Lots of custom values, "max perks per Sanctuary" is ID 70, line 56.

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Hairless-Ape
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Hairless-Ape » Sat, 21. Sep 19, 23:22

Joubarbe wrote:
Sat, 21. Sep 19, 20:25
Hairless-Ape wrote:
Sat, 21. Sep 19, 18:15
I know it's not what you asked for, but if you just want more perks, you can do this.
Open \Mayhem\Changed Scripts\addon\scripts\Mayhem.GetMaxPerks.xml
Modify:
$maxPerks = $maxPerks + $permanentEnemies
to look like:
$maxPerks = $maxPerks + $permanentEnemies + 3 (This shows 3 extra perks, but use however many you want)

Recommend you use X-Studio to edit the file, but you could edit the XML directly with a text editor if you feel brave.
Yeah, don't do that, you will break things. Use X3\addon\9972-L044.xml. Lots of custom values, "max perks per Sanctuary" is ID 70, line 56.

I stand corrected in the proper methodology of the change. The static initialization value in 9972-L044.xml is the proper place to make the change without question. Why make an initialization data file and a loader routine if you don't actually use it huh..
I would respectfully argue however, that given the single place in your code-base where you load this value happens to be in Mayhem.GetMaxPerks.xml,
that the outcome is identical in function to the one I suggested. And of course, being old and slow, I could have missed some other place where it is loaded, but for now I don't see one.
If you can point it out and then gloat with rampant glee, I would at the very least cry a little, beg for forgiveness, and maybe use more vodka in my mix. If I'm right however, and it would not 'break things' as I suspect, in that case I would
ask that you implement any changes I want for the next week. To start with, I want a custom M6 ship added called "Heavy Hairless".
Take your stinking paws off me you dam dirty ape! :S

magitsu
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by magitsu » Sun, 22. Sep 19, 14:18

Which of the warnings (may effect AI ship spawning etc.) related to enabling cheats are truly relevant? In some cases it would be very useful to remove tedium by using certain shortcuts. The amount of micro is occasionally too damn high, leaving you with the impression that you are expending real life resources instead of in-game. But I really wouldn't like to break the save.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Hairless-Ape » Sun, 22. Sep 19, 15:50

magitsu wrote:
Sun, 22. Sep 19, 14:18
Which of the warnings (may effect AI ship spawning etc.) related to enabling cheats are truly relevant? In some cases it would be very useful to remove tedium by using certain shortcuts. The amount of micro is occasionally too damn high, leaving you with the impression that you are expending real life resources instead of in-game. But I really wouldn't like to break the save.
I have the same issue. After you play a bit, there are some aspects that you just want to speed up or make easier because you want to enjoy some other part far more.
I've made nearly a dozen changes that really remove a lot of tedium and so far it's been far more enjoyable. The start game, in particular, is way too slow for me so I give myself additional funds and a second hauler.
There are plenty of other things you 'could' do to the scripts and you also get the added bonus of pissing off Joub.

So far, other than some minor tweeks, I love the game as-is. Unfortunately, the big show-stopper for me continues to be a limitation in the base game ( I guess ) where if I invade a system and I'm actually in that system, my capital ships seem to enjoy smashing head first into the stations they are attacking, thus destroying themselves. Many other small ships still seem to bash into each other as well, leaving space dust. It really ruins the game in many ways for me, because being there for a long planned invasion is 3/4 of the fun, but if you are in-system, I end up losing vastly more ships because of the mechanics. Works great if you're not there, but it gets old real quick just watching the map. Maybe someone has a decent fix for this issue.
Take your stinking paws off me you dam dirty ape! :S

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Hairless-Ape » Mon, 23. Sep 19, 03:52

Joubarbe, So far, 2.9.13 looking fantastic. Excellent changes. I've not looked at the broadside firing fixes for capital ships in-system yet, but I have high hopes they will stop banging themselves against stations and dying.. If you really solved this problem, it is a BIG deal. I've seen this issue raise it's ugly head in X3 for years and many people have claimed it makes the game unplayable. If you've solved this, or at least greatly improved it, egosoft should give you a bonus in your check.
Take your stinking paws off me you dam dirty ape! :S

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Mon, 23. Sep 19, 11:11

I honestly think it wouldn't be impossible to fix, with a bit of research. Especially when you're paid for it.
The AI sucks at firing its main turrets, so with 2.9.13, big ships should give priority to where they go instead of where they shoot. But there's room for improvement, even though this fix should be hardcoded. Doing lots of calculations through scripting is a very bad idea (and ships sometimes do weird maneuvers to go from A to B). I'm not a big fan of LU's bounce feature, but at least it removes the frustration of having half your ships bumping into each other.

magitsu
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by magitsu » Mon, 23. Sep 19, 12:59

Yeah, the bounce seems unfortunately quite handy. Just yesterday I was setting up a mining operation. Two of the four miners took damage from debris before I was done, with one even blowing up. Ended up giving them max shields to have time to get out of system. I did some more experimenting and the riskiest thing was setting a home base TM to follow one of the miners. That has slim chance of surviving if you are in sector. From now on I'll pack the miners into a TM and send that to another sector and deploy remotely.

Anyway, these things can be improved but best not to expect too much. Limitations are part of fun to try to get around.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Joubarbe » Mon, 23. Sep 19, 13:21

It depends on the TM. It's like trying to dock a TS+ on a mine. There's a high risk of it crashing into the dock. Some models cause problems, some others don't. That's the main reason why I've removed all Terran station models.
The Sanctuary is also problematic, as well as big shipyards. I should have used the military outpost and normal shipyard models, but then you remove a part of the game and the sense of grandeur and scaling.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by magitsu » Wed, 25. Sep 19, 21:51

It would be interesting to hear how people like to play Mayhem. For example when you go for the non-beginner start what guides you in establishing the first Sanctuary. In my current game I've been taking my time and it seems that the factions can be surprisingly quick at claiming territory.
How many hours in or or is it more about money? Then what about the second one?
Do you usually go for backwaters with more than one free expansion or seek centralized positions and are prepared to wrestle sectors away from others or take non-adjacents?

Chuckycharm
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Chuckycharm » Thu, 26. Sep 19, 05:03

Hey there, I have two questions concerning this mod (BTW 120 hours down the rabbit hole and still have trouble getting sleep in between sessions ;) )

-What would you suggest being a good end of mid-game fleet? Now having 3 osakas, 3 kvasirs, 3 chikyus, 40+ M6s, 4 arans filled with Fenrirs, and a megalodon halfway researched. I feel like with invade sector command, I still lose almost all my M3s when taking a large factory support sector. Continuing on this topic, would it be better just going full cap ship at this point since my shipyard is running 100%? I'm open to any suggestions
(OH BTW, I don't really like how my frigates/Arans dock on the adjacent Aran every time, and such sometimes they don't fly home/undock when it is time to fight. anything to do?)

-Are there any extra nice-to-have mods when you are playing Mayhem, or is it already well rounded (as I think it is)? I heard about ADS but not sure how to integrate it with fleet commands.

-EXTRA: is plutarch tractor beam system a thing in Mayhem? (haven't found answer or I'm just dumb)

Thank you
Sincerely,
A returning X3 addict.

P.S.: it was abit more than 2 questions I know.

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by captainyesterday555 » Thu, 26. Sep 19, 15:03

magitsu wrote:
Wed, 25. Sep 19, 21:51
It would be interesting to hear how people like to play Mayhem. For example when you go for the non-beginner start what guides you in establishing the first Sanctuary. In my current game I've been taking my time and it seems that the factions can be surprisingly quick at claiming territory.
How many hours in or or is it more about money? Then what about the second one?
Do you usually go for backwaters with more than one free expansion or seek centralized positions and are prepared to wrestle sectors away from others or take non-adjacents?
I spent hundreds of hours playing at 2.7.4 from the beginner start, and just started over with 2.9.13 on the 'random' start with just an M4 Eurus. The first few hours in 2.9.13 have been spent exploring in my M4 and directing my lone TS to earn me some cash while I fly from sector to sector. Choosing which sector to build my first sanctuary was based on Sun %, since I like to plop an SPP in to drive my crafting. I also like to snuggle up to the Argons and Teladis, so something near President's End neighborhood is nice. In my first 2.7.4 playthrough, this location also put me near an extremely aggressive expansion into Paranid space by the Yaki, and allowed me to Scan the Yaki ships to build up my collection of blueprints without ticking off the other groups too early.

One of the most thrilling moments of playing X3 for me was trying to sidle up to a Yaki M2 in my M6 in the middle of a huge firefight between Yaki and Paranid fleets, praying for the scan to complete while my shields were gone and my hull was melting.
Que sais-je?

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Hector0x » Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23

magitsu wrote:
Wed, 25. Sep 19, 21:51
It would be interesting to hear how people like to play Mayhem. For example when you go for the non-beginner start what guides you in establishing the first Sanctuary. In my current game I've been taking my time and it seems that the factions can be surprisingly quick at claiming territory.
How many hours in or or is it more about money? Then what about the second one?
Do you usually go for backwaters with more than one free expansion or seek centralized positions and are prepared to wrestle sectors away from others or take non-adjacents?
Half of the fun comes from figuring out how YOU want to tackle these problems :)

I'd say the only critical condition your first sector should meet is a safe location. Everything else is just bonus.
Above average factory support is nice if you want to stay small and keep your threat level low for some time, because despite being small you can still produce much stuff. High population can also be desireable because you most likely need a shipyard first and it gets better over time (production specialization bonus). Best to already use all early game ship building needs to train a good sector right away. It will peak out sooner than other locations.
But besides the safe neighborhood nothing is really necessary.

If you steal territory from an enemy sector cluster, you should also have a plan on how to get rid of the rest in the medium term before building a big industry. Expect invasions, which will frequently disrupt your supply lines and bind or damage your fleet (especially if enemy shipyards are nearby). So it's better to go for isolated sectors first.
Chuckycharm wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 05:03
-Now having 3 osakas, 3 kvasirs, 3 chikyus, 40+ M6s, 4 arans filled with Fenrirs, and a megalodon halfway researched. I feel like with invade sector command, I still lose almost all my M3s when taking a large factory support sector. Continuing on this topic, would it be better just going full cap ship at this point since my shipyard is running 100%? I'm open to any suggestions
(OH BTW, I don't really like how my frigates/Arans dock on the adjacent Aran every time, and such sometimes they don't fly home/undock when it is time to fight. anything to do?)

-Are there any extra nice-to-have mods when you are playing Mayhem, or is it already well rounded (as I think it is)? I heard about ADS but not sure how to integrate it with fleet commands.

-EXTRA: is plutarch tractor beam system a thing in Mayhem? (haven't found answer or I'm just dumb)
Nice fleet. At least those daily OCV's are not very likely to cause you too much trouble anymore.

- Your M3's don't switch their targets. After an invasion order they lock onto stations and won't defend themselves anymore. It's annoying, but you can work around it. Enemy defenders come in waves. When you get the first kill notification for one of your ships, quickly give an "Attack All Enemies" fleet command. They will target ships and after cleanup you can issue another invasion order. You could also make use of two fleets. One with "Invade sector" to destroy all stations, and one with "Attack All Enemies" to hunt down ships (of course this is overkill). You can also go capship only to keep matters simple. (but OOS they have the same problem)

- Hilarious. Don't use Arans i guess? :D

- Mayhem seems well rounded as is. I still have ADS in my save from the times before the fleet system overhaul. But i only kept using it's defense grid feature. It can be customized to give notifications about enemy forces in your sectors and sends an appropriate response. But you have to assign ships to it, so i only gave it some corvettes and a frigate to take out small raiding groups automatically. Overall it doesn't seem to be very necessary. OWP's can do this job too if they're placed between the gates.

- no asteroid beaming in Mayhem. You will have to fight for your minerals :P
Image

magitsu
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by magitsu » Thu, 26. Sep 19, 23:59

captainyesterday555 wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 15:03
I spent hundreds of hours playing at 2.7.4 from the beginner start, and just started over with 2.9.13 on the 'random' start with just an M4 Eurus. The first few hours in 2.9.13 have been spent exploring in my M4 and directing my lone TS to earn me some cash while I fly from sector to sector. Choosing which sector to build my first sanctuary was based on Sun %, since I like to plop an SPP in to drive my crafting. I also like to snuggle up to the Argons and Teladis, so something near President's End neighborhood is nice. In my first 2.7.4 playthrough, this location also put me near an extremely aggressive expansion into Paranid space by the Yaki, and allowed me to Scan the Yaki ships to build up my collection of blueprints without ticking off the other groups too early.

One of the most thrilling moments of playing X3 for me was trying to sidle up to a Yaki M2 in my M6 in the middle of a huge firefight between Yaki and Paranid fleets, praying for the scan to complete while my shields were gone and my hull was melting.
Interesting. I learned the early game part with 2.7.8 myself. Now the easy start seems too easy and puts you quite far from the busiest action (unless you roll three different faction Cores in the channel like I did).
The milky way sectors (Jupiter, Uranus etc.) seem way too large, but still somehow interesting. In my current start I'm holed behind Ianimus Zura in the Y Gamma(?). It's very safe but on the other hand any expansion from there's going to be unconnected.

This kind of info is very valuable:
Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23
- Your M3's don't switch their targets. After an invasion order they lock onto stations and won't defend themselves anymore. It's annoying, but you can work around it. Enemy defenders come in waves. When you get the first kill notification for one of your ships, quickly give an "Attack All Enemies" fleet command. They will target ships and after cleanup you can issue another invasion order. You could also make use of two fleets. One with "Invade sector" to destroy all stations, and one with "Attack All Enemies" to hunt down ships (of course this is overkill). You can also go capship only to keep matters simple. (but OOS they have the same problem)

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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by Chuckycharm » Fri, 27. Sep 19, 03:23

Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23

Nice fleet. At least those daily OCV's are not very likely to cause you too much trouble anymore.
Nah you're right, they aren't. Threat level 20 with 15 sectors, starting to get near the first M2s of the OCV.
Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23

- Your M3's don't switch their targets. After an invasion order they lock onto stations and won't defend themselves anymore. It's annoying, but you can work around it. Enemy defenders come in waves. When you get the first kill notification for one of your ships, quickly give an "Attack All Enemies" fleet command. They will target ships and after cleanup you can issue another invasion order. You could also make use of two fleets. One with "Invade sector" to destroy all stations, and one with "Attack All Enemies" to hunt down ships (of course this is overkill). You can also go capship only to keep matters simple. (but OOS they have the same problem)
Wow, never thought about it. Seems like a good thing to do!
Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23

- Hilarious. Don't use Arans i guess? :D
Hey you said it yourself, gotta fight above your paygrade at the beginning! Though these Arans are wierdly adorable, all docking to each other for safety...


Concerning ADS, is there some kind of tutorial somewhere? not sure I have understood the description page.
Hector0x wrote:
Thu, 26. Sep 19, 19:23

- no asteroid beaming in Mayhem. You will have to fight for your minerals :P
Well, guess I gotta actually pay a visit to my Argon neighbours. Nyana's Hideout is not so well hidden from my fleet anymore ;)

Cheers!

magitsu
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Re: [X3LU] Mayhem 2.9.13

Post by magitsu » Sat, 28. Sep 19, 21:11

I was thinking about interesting ideas for new campaigns.

1) Non-ambitious Tributary
* Don't set your own objectives, instead pick one faction and do everything to prop that up.
*Think e.g. about whether flooding the regional market with cheap resources would help.
*Support their invasions and defend their assets beyond your preferably landlocked own sector(s).


2) Nefarious space monopolist
* Pick one product category (intially) and try to corner it as well as you can. Meaning things like you destroy everyone else's production.
* This one requires more study of spawning mechanisms etc. to understand whether you even grind it to a halt, but there are several ways. For example if stations spawn, you can kill traffic between sectors and most importantly isolate cores.

Feel free to expand on the subject.

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