Trump - Criminal Prosecution

[Observe]

Discussions involving criminal investigations and prosecution of Donald Trump will likely be lengthy and ongoing, so here is a new thread for the subject.

[fiksal]

Right


So what do we know

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -rcna75172

What to know about Trump's indictment
A Manhattan grand jury voted Thursday to indict former President Donald Trump, three sources said.
The indictment comes in New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg's investigation into a hush money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels during Trump's 2016 campaign.
The exact charge or charges are unknown, because the grand jury indictment was filed under seal. Bragg had been focusing on a felony charge of falsifying business records, which carries a maximum prison sentence of four years.
Trump and his lawyers were notified of his indictment and have called it a political attack, saying he has not committed a crime.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... -rcna73588

The exact charge or charges are unknown because indictments are typically filed in court under seal after a grand jury’s vote in New York.

[matthewfarmery]

There might be a lot of charges, at least one source indicates, as many as 30. Interesting, Judge Juan Merchan will be presiding over the case. And Trump in his usual manner has already lashed out at him.

https://nypost.com/2023/03/31/trump-las ... oney-case/

So, things look interesting, and This judge probably won't take kindly to Trump's BS.

I think the chances of Trump's bail I see been low, also, the Secret service has already come under fire due to the move in date, why? When they should have had the resources, and should have seen this coming for at least a month now? It's possible the SS might be too loyal to the man, rather then the country that they serve.

Edit

Regarding bail, like I said in the random news thread, IF, Trump gets bail, then the judge will have no choice but to enforce a pretty strict measures on Trump, no phone or computer access. No using Trump's aids to post stuff on his behalf. travelling around should also be limited. Trump has already threatened Alvin Bragg, by posting a picture of him and a baseball bat, (that was taken down, but the meaning is still clear) On top of threatening death and destruction if he is indicted.

So all this comes into play when considering bail. it's not just the SS that needs to be considered, but Trump himself and his state of mind, and what he will do once he is out on bail? OK, the judge should put in place a gag order, but I highly doubt Trump will honour that. And breaking a gag order might lead to a prison sentence. So Trump might see the inside of a prison cell, one way or another.

Again, a lot of factors, I would deny bail for Trump, and toss his hopes of speaking to the outside world in the nearest ocean. Will do him a lot of good, while he mulls over his time in prison. And his clown show for lawyers I don't think they will help.

Edit 2,
He also said this a few days ago about the Grand Jury, then change his tune, before

"I have gained such respect for this grand jury, and perhaps even the grand jury system as a whole. The evidence is so overwhelmingly in my favor, and so ridiculously bad for the highly partisan and hateful district attorney, that the grand jury is saying, hold on, we are not a rubber stamp, which most grand juries are branded as being, we are not going to vote against a preponderance of evidence or against large numbers of legal scholars all saying there is no case here."

now after

"These Thugs and Radical Left Monsters have just INDICATED the 45th President of the United States of America, and the leading Republican Candidate, by far, for the 2024 Nomination for President. THIS IS AN ATTACK ON OUR COUNTRY THE LIKES OF WHICH HAS NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE. IT IS LIKEWISE A CONTINUING ATTACK ON OUR ONCE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. THE USA IS NOW A THIRD WORLD NATION, A NATION IN SERIOUS DECLINE. SO SAD!, reposting people who were outright criticising the jury just days after he praised them."

This is the problem, he just can't keep his trap shut, so if a judge does put a gag on him, Trump will ignore and and post even more crap on his social media platform. And of course, Trump won't listen to his lawyers, or to any council. This is why, I think he should be denied bail. and let him wine all day behind bars.

[Observe]

The prospect of a gag order is interesting and quite possible. Ordering Trump to shut up, might be the biggest punishment he could be given and as you say, would likely put him behind bars on its own.

[matthewfarmery]

The prospect of a gag order is interesting and quite possible. Ordering Trump to shut up, might be the biggest punishment he could be given and as you say, would likely put him behind bars on its own.

Gag orders aren't that rare, so in Trump's case, I do see happening, especailly with all the crap that Trump has posted recently. I think if on bail, his posting would be even more dire. But when again, he has already posted a lot of dire warnings already. He is his own worst enemy in this regard. And like I said, his lawyers won't be helping, as they are all yes men, and Trump only wants Yes men on his team.

[Observe]

Apparently, Trump will plead not guilty and a trial will ensue. But what if he pleaded Guilty? His crime is considered a misdemeanor and he'd probably be fined, but that's it. Seems to me, that would be the smartest thing for him to do. Avoid a trial, avoid the gag order, get it over with quickly, shrug his shoulders with a broad smirk, bask in the adoration of his supporters and come out of it as the superhero.

[Gavrushka]

Apparently, Trump will plead not guilty and a trial will ensue. But what if he pleaded Guilty? His crime is considered a misdemeanor and he'd probably be fined, but that's it. Seems to me, that would be the smartest thing for him to do. Avoid a trial, avoid the gag order, get it over with quickly, shrug his shoulders with a broad smirk, bask in the adoration of his supporters and come out of it as the superhero.

If he lived in a version of reality that made sense to the rest of us, that's precisely what he'd do, but I've a feeling his 'issues' preclude him believing he is responsible.

He'd probably choke on the word 'guilty' if he ever tried uttering it.

[matthewfarmery]

Apparently, Trump will plead not guilty and a trial will ensue. But what if he pleaded Guilty? His crime is considered a misdemeanor and he'd probably be fined, but that's it. Seems to me, that would be the smartest thing for him to do. Avoid a trial, avoid the gag order, get it over with quickly, shrug his shoulders with a broad smirk, bask in the adoration of his supporters and come out of it as the superhero.

If he lived in a version of reality that made sense to the rest of us, that's precisely what he'd do, but I've a feeling his 'issues' preclude him believing he is responsible.

He'd probably choke on the word 'guilty' if he ever tried uttering it.

Pretty much, again, he will try and plead his innocence, I suspect he might try and take on the Judge, giving him threats. I don't see him for one second pleading guilty. To do that, would be a death stroke. His mind won't see that fact. He will hit out on the prosecutors, the judge (and already posted, he done that already) the jury.

There is another problem with the trial, the jury. trying to find a jury that doesn't know Trump, or what he has done will be a tall order. I think for many, he will be banged to rights and giving a swift verdict of guilty without parole. And that could take a long time to find someone who is neutral. This case could be seen pretty late in the year. or early next. This and other court cases, this will all start to pile up.

[Vertigo 7]

finding a juror that doesn't know of him or his bs, fortunately, isn't the litmus test needed. Finding ones that are impartial would be the requirement. I'm sure the jury selection process will be painful and drawn out but they can only strike so many.

[Falcrack]

I don't envy those involved in the jury selection process, especially the jurors themselves. The most important qualifications for a juror is to make a decision based on law, based on the facts presented, and not based on their preconceived notions.

I hope the jurors are allowed to stay anonymous. They'll probably need to be sequestered as well.

If I were on the jury, I would do my best to forget about my personal distaste for Trump, leave behind preconceived notions of guilt or innocence, and focus solely on the specific charges which are being brought up.

Having needed to report for jury duty recently (though not selected), the lawyers are allowed to dismiss a certain number of jurors for no given reason at all, but after that point, they need to provide justification.

[felter]

They managed to find a jury okay for the trump organization tax trial, so I do think they will manage again. It's not just this case either, he also has 3 other court trials on the go right now, one starts in just 2 weeks time, so that's at least 4 juries, one for each that they will have to find, plus any future indictments he faces.

[matthewfarmery]

Well the KEY difference is, this will be a criminal case, not a civil case. but your right, mind, they found jurors for those trials, but still, I suspect things could be a bit different.

Also, from what I read. Trump himself might be a wild card. As he will also be meeting the Judge who will be overseeing his case. Now, Trump has already taken a swing at him, plus Alvin Bragg. I see several possible scenarios when he sees the judge.

He might stay silent, (very unlikely)
He might take another swing at the judge. (very likely)

If he does open his mouth and claim he is either still president, and that he is entitled to better treatment, OR take a swing at the judge because its the same judge that did Trump's financial officer trial. I see things getting very heated. either the judge will then have no choice but to put a gag order on Trump, (and Trump will ignore that in a millisecond.) Or two, hold Trump in contempt. If that happens, Trump will be very likely see inside of a prison cell for 24 plus hours.

Then, another thought came to me, will Trump's SS detail come to his aid? and bungle him out of the courtroom? That would be a clear violation and obstruction of justice. Plus it seems that many house republicans are getting involved. They too seem they might be trying to interfere with state justice. So, the question is, if things do get out of hand, will this be elevated to a federal level? and the SS detail will be forced to answer, or be dissolved?

America is entering uncharted waters here, on many levels. and it will all play out depending on how well Trump behaves in front of that judge, and IF Trump obeys any restrictions placed upon him. (and if there is a gag order, that should apply equally to his clown lawyers, especailly as one of them might blow Trump's case before there is a real trial.

[Gavrushka]

Lord, I never considered Trump as the wildcard, @matthewfarmery... I imagine bookies will have him odds-on to be in contempt with his first sentence. - Thing is, despite his insistence to the contrary, he just ain't bright, but will think he knows better than his lawyers. He's gonna think he can mouthfart for the win, but in a criminal court, that's not likely to work...

I believe it's (or it was) up to two years incarceration for contempt in the UK, with the sitting judge passing judgement without the need of jury ratification, and I imagine it won't be too dissimilar in the US.

[matthewfarmery]

Yeah, true, by I was thinking because America is entering uncharted waters, because this is the first time he has entered a criminal courtroom, (or being directly indicted.) this could either go smoothly, or it will go down fast. hence the term wildcard. Because it this all hinges on what Trump will say or do when he gets there.

And yes, I think he will try and mouthfart off to the Judge, he will say he knows more then his lawyers do. And they are going to have one hell of a time trying to control him. And we all know, he doesn't listen to his lawyers, he doesn't heed what they are telling him. I wonder if that Joe guy will really want to stick around and try and defend him if things go down hill? I think this will be the first time he and his client has sit in the courtroom together? (so I think both will be way over their heads for sure) I think if things get too heated, they might bolt, I doubt they will be getting paid enough to stick around and defend Trump from his own stupidity.

So yeah, it all depends what happens on Tuesday, and how well Trump behaves himself. But I still suspect, he won't keep his trap shut for a second.

[fiksal]

It's a good test of the American justice system though, the Constitution and the whole governing.

Trump claimed awhile back that the President is above the law. (which is not true btw, to make it clear)


Let's see this

[matthewfarmery]

It's a good test of the American justice system though, the Constitution and the whole governing.

Trump claimed awhile back that the President is above the law. (which is not true btw, to make it clear)


Let's see this

I agree, but the problem is, we still may see interference from the GOP, they may not sit back and watch, but if they do interfere, then American justice will not prevail. But if this was a democrat former president, I'm sure they would do everything in their power to see justice done. I suspect those that are complaining, Trump might have dirt on them, or is blackmailing them. So this could be a major stress test, and one that will decide America's future and its failing democracy.

We will see in the coming days how this will play out, but I hope NYC AG office will not allow themselves to be bullied by those traitors, so far, the AG office has not caved in. And I hope that remains so. As the house republicans should be ashamed of themselves for trying to interfere in state policy and the rule of law.

[chew-ie]

Trump claimed awhile back that the President is above the law. (which is not true btw, to make it clear)

Of course he has That's why US really should get their act together and jail him. This is about a person who damaged and still is damaging the US in so many ways. Instead, they treat that as a political battle between democrats and republicans - pure nonsense.

[Vertigo 7]

Well, to be clear, it's the GOP and that bunch of traitors that treats this as a political tug of war. You'll see them scream "law and order" whenever a black or brown person or a member of the LGBTQ community commits a crime, but one of their own? Please... How many times over the last decade has someone from the GOP been accused of a crime and you heard the term "Political witch hunt"?

[matthewfarmery]

exactly my point, these traitors are probably shaking in their boots, as quite a few of them may end up falling. Plus, this is still the start of Trump's major headaches, there will be more to come. I suspect quite a few in the GOP will want Trump in the clear, party because he might still be their best shot of retaking the WH, and also, if a former president finally sees justice, then those in the GOP might also see justice for the same reasons. So they have a lot to fear. And I still wonder how republicans are in Trumps pockets? afterall, from what sources I read, he been trying to phone them up and rally them behind his banner.

The GOP needs to be burned to the ground and rebuilt. as they are a party of shame, not a party of Law and Order.

[jlehtone]

Trump claimed awhile back that the President is above the law. (which is not true btw, to make it clear)

If the POTUS is above the law, then Biden is above the law and can do whatever he pleases with Trump.