choosing a gaming computer

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Falcrack
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choosing a gaming computer

Post by Falcrack » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 06:55

If you could choose between these two computers, which would you choose?

https://www.abt.com/CyberPowerPC-Gamer- ... 70316.html

https://www.abt.com/iBUYPOWER-Liquid-Co ... 72519.html

I think I've narrowed it down to these two. The iBUYPOWER has better CPU cooling, more storage, but not as much SSD storage, and is also slightly more expensive. I am decided that these have the CPU and graphics card I want.

pjknibbs
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 07:55

It would be useful to know exactly what form the SSD in the iBuyPower machine is. The Cyberpower one says it's an NVMe M.2 device, and those are *ridiculously* fast--according to CrystalDiskMark the one in my gaming laptop exceeds 3Gb/sec sustained transfer rate. Whereas if the iBuyPower one is a regular SATA SSD then it'll be limited to SATA speeds of about 600Mb/sec.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 11:32

Both have "Liquid cool" in their name and "Liquid Cooling: Yes" in their specs.
Neither reveals what they actually have (in order to give assembly some leeway?)
I'd choose based on known details, but here we have two pigs in a poke.

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felter
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by felter » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 16:22

Personally, I wouldn't want either of them but definitely stay well clear of the first one as the description is not for the computer in the picture. For starters, it says liquid cool, but the picture shows a stock air fan on the CPU. Also look at the graphics card, I doubt very much that it is a 3060TI as there is next to no cooling on it and TI cards are overclocked and normally require some decent cooling.

The second one I actually found it for $500 less than the one you linked which in itself is pretty suspicious, but the other site had better description and the computer is aimed more at productivity with gaming on the side, which explains the non gaming motherboard. Like jlehtone I couldn't find any information on the liquid cooler, but it looks to me like a cheap Chinese knock off.

The first one seems to actually be an Intel made computer, not sure on the second one. I couldn't find any reviews on either, which always worry's me as you cannot trust reviews on a shop store as a lot of the time they are either paid for or just plain fake. Right now, I know it is pretty hard to find a decent gaming computer at a reasonable price, but more than a few are just plain rip-offs, which I think both of those are.
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Gavrushka
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by Gavrushka » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 16:56

I checked out Cyberpower a year ago when I bought my PC, but they seemed far more expensive for similar systems than their competitors.

All I can say, after trawling through every option there was, is that Palicomp were the best. (I've bought two custom PCs from them now.) - Their custom configurator is pretty cool, and I leapt on the phone to them after designing the system and ended up with an upgraded warranty and expedited delivery.

*Edit* this is likely a pointless post as I'm in the UK, but Cyberpower have a manufacturing facility 30 miles away, thus my confusion!
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by burger1 » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 21:19

cyberpower liquid cool picture has a stock intel cooler in the picture. They can mess things up and provide a 120 mm water cooler that cant cool the pc.
No ram speeds listed. Assuming its two sticks for dual channel.
No hard drive specs. They have a wd blue in the picture.
psu is 600w but not necessarily on the +12 rail. Likely is 600w.
No idea what mainboard you get. They have released lower cost socket 1700 mainboards recently.
12600k - has graphics on the cpu if needed
I don't think cyberpower has a photo of what you are buying

ibuypower
not sure what the ventilation on the front of the case is. Nearly solid glass/plastic? cooling might be an issue. can buy a new case and transfer the parts.
z690 mainboard
12600kf - has no cpu graphics if it matters
600w psu
might be a wd blue ssd
ddr4 3200 with unknown timings. Timings effect speed. Ram like cl20 and higher is also much more often bad. But no idea on the timings.
500 gb extra hard drive might not be very useful?

manufacturers can power limit the board and nerf performance so you might want to look at who might do that.

If you can get your hands on a gpu you can build your own?

only one has free kb and mouse (cyberpower?)?
Last edited by burger1 on Mon, 31. Jan 22, 21:26, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 31. Jan 22, 21:21

burger1 wrote:
Mon, 31. Jan 22, 21:19
No ram speeds listed. Assuming its two sticks for dual channel.
Not always a safe assumption with pre-built PCs, they often go with a single RAM stick despite the fact it's been shown time and again to seriously dent performance.

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felter
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by felter » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 05:00

Looks like the general consensus is, no one is too impressed with either system. I want to add never trust them when they say dual channel for ram, as a lot of reviewers are finding even though they say it, more often than not they come with only a single stick installed.
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 12:15

felter wrote:
Tue, 1. Feb 22, 05:00
Looks like the general consensus is, no one is too impressed with either system. I want to add never trust them when they say dual channel for ram, as a lot of reviewers are finding even though they say it, more often than not they come with only a single stick installed.
Well, the CPU and motherboard do support dual channel ram. Isn't that close enough for marketing? Just like in "I have brains" (unused).

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 13:03

The more I read this thread, the more I think - 'Why doesn't the OP just contact one of those system builder firms (as I did), use their system configuration tool (and then perhaps check with them to identify any potential mismatches), and so arrive at a final, approximately costed and desired system design?' Once you firm up a viable and affordable design concept, you can then shop around further between built system sources, or even source the components for a self-build.

I found that by saving my design configuration and rechecking now and again for special offers and discounts on components, that I could save a lot a money for the same design even with the original build firm. At the moment the graphics card is a big cost driver and their prices vary a lot depending upon the build firm's usage, orders and deliveries into stock.
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by Falcrack » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 15:15

Alan Phipps wrote:
Tue, 1. Feb 22, 13:03
The more I read this thread, the more I think - 'Why doesn't the OP just contact one of those system builder firms (as I did), use their system configuration tool (and then perhaps check with them to identify any potential mismatches), and so arrive at a final, approximately costed and desired system design?' Once you firm up a viable and affordable design concept, you can then shop around further between built system sources, or even source the components for a self-build.
Because I've priced out how much it would be to build a computer with the specs I've listed, and it is far more expensive for me to build it myself than to buy it prebuilt. I've not found anything cheaper that has what I want after many many days of searching.

As to RAM, I'm not terribly concerned about it. My plan was to take the RAM in my current computer (32 GB of DDR4 3600 MHz RAM, Cas latency 18) and pop them into the new computer. The 2X16 GB Ram stick from my current computer would go into the new computer, and my current computer would go to the kids to replace their ancient i3 computer they use for school that lacks any graphics card at all.

As to the cooler, I was just gonna buy a workable air cooler for maybe $50-70 and replace the insufficient stock air cooler it comes with. I don't plan to ever overclock the new computer, so I am not worried about getting the absolute best in terms of cooling, just something that is sufficient for running games at stock speeds.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 15:22

Er, if you do use a configurator build firm (and agree) then they build it, not you. That way you get a prebuilt system that is exactly what you want with no doubts. Yes, you are paying for them to build it but (In my experience) you get a nice clean and tidy layout that assists with cooling and aesthetics. Also the firm give a warranty on their work, parts and their integration.
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by euclid » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 16:52

Falcrack wrote:
Tue, 1. Feb 22, 15:15
....................
Because I've priced out how much it would be to build a computer with the specs I've listed, and it is far more expensive for me to build it myself than to buy it prebuilt.
....................
I've built my own rigs since the 80s, roughly every 10 years, but I've never found it cheaper to buy a prebuilt. Well, I guess time has changed ;-)

Cheers Euclid
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by burger1 » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 17:16

I am guessing your in the US.

Microcenter seems like its getting some video cards in. You have to walk in to buy them. Not sure about built systems and shipping. Some locations have 3060ti. $540 Evga ftw, $630 msi 2 fan, $660 msi 3 fan.


With parts (some questionable since selection limited and just using stuff as a place holder) ~1552+100=1652+tax +100 to replace some bad choices https://www.microcenter.com/site/conten ... selector_6

Just to be clear not recommending the parts just slapped them together with no research at all. Also be careful you don't buy a ddr5 mainboard. Its quite tricky.

Then add ~$15 to add a win 10 os from chinese windows key resellers
Last edited by burger1 on Tue, 1. Feb 22, 17:33, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 17:26

euclid wrote:
Tue, 1. Feb 22, 16:52
I've built my own rigs since the 80s, roughly every 10 years, but I've never found it cheaper to buy a prebuilt. Well, I guess time has changed ;-)
With video card pricing the way it is, yes, times have changed. Although, were you including the cost of the Windows installation in your self-built PCs?

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by euclid » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 18:05

Uhh right you are with the gfx card resource shortages. The OS is not an issue. For years now I order all parts via one small local computer shop. The owner is very good at sourcing stuff. In exchange he provides the OS for "free" (guess he makes enough profits on all the parts).

Cheers Euclid
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 1. Feb 22, 21:21

Computer store near me sells parts. They assemble the machine from those parts, if customer wants, for 90€.

They do have some setups too, like the ones in OP. A "Gaming PC" for 2100€ contains:
Spoiler
Show
CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K, 3.7/4.9 GHz
MB: ASUS Intel Z690 -based
GPU: ASUS NVIDIA Geforce RTX 3060 Ti, 8GB GDDR6
RAM: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3600MHz
Storage: 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD
Optical: - (No place it the case)
CPU Cooler: Alpenföhn Dolomit Premium
Case: Kolink Castle
PSU: 750W 80+ Gold
OS: -
Other: Wi-Fi & Bluetooth
Note that some items are not exactly specified, but overall there is more details than on the OP store.

With (tower) air cooler the size of the case can be an issue. More efficient ones do not fit into every case.


It is quite possible that a prebuilt setup is cheaper now than parts that you simply pick from shelf (and if you have those parts assembled a bit cheaper still).
Moreover, the GPU's can be prioritized to those prebuilt setups and as separate have clear premium (or none are available).

It is different when you cherry-pick the components from special offers. Then you get the part cheaper, but pay with your time.

Perhaps Falcrack goes for Linux? It could be cheaper than the MS Windows.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by Falcrack » Wed, 2. Feb 22, 03:33

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 1. Feb 22, 21:21
Computer store near me sells parts. They assemble the machine from those parts, if customer wants, for 90€.

They do have some setups too, like the ones in OP. A "Gaming PC" for 2100€ contains:
Spoiler
Show
CPU: Intel Core i5-12600K, 3.7/4.9 GHz
MB: ASUS Intel Z690 -based
GPU: ASUS NVIDIA Geforce RTX 3060 Ti, 8GB GDDR6
RAM: 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4 3600MHz
Storage: 1TB M.2 NVMe SSD
Optical: - (No place it the case)
CPU Cooler: Alpenföhn Dolomit Premium
Case: Kolink Castle
PSU: 750W 80+ Gold
OS: -
Other: Wi-Fi & Bluetooth
Note that some items are not exactly specified, but overall there is more details than on the OP store.

With (tower) air cooler the size of the case can be an issue. More efficient ones do not fit into every case.


It is quite possible that a prebuilt setup is cheaper now than parts that you simply pick from shelf (and if you have those parts assembled a bit cheaper still).
Moreover, the GPU's can be prioritized to those prebuilt setups and as separate have clear premium (or none are available).

It is different when you cherry-pick the components from special offers. Then you get the part cheaper, but pay with your time.

Perhaps Falcrack goes for Linux? It could be cheaper than the MS Windows.
Falcrack does not go for Linux, not at all!

The system you quoted me is for 2100 euros, and in US dollars, that is ~$2400, compared to the system I found for $1690 that has the same CPU and graphics card. Now I guess I am just the sort of guy who asks for advice and then ignores it when given, but I went ahead and ordered the CyberPower computer. If I find there are deficiencies (such as the CPU cooler), I will buy a better options and apply it. The RAM it comes with I am not concerned about, since I already likely have better RAM in my current comp, and if the RAM provided with the new prebuilt computer is inferior, it will just find a home in the computer going to the kids.

With the exception of laptops, I've always assembled computers from individually purchased components, but I find that with the price of GPUs these days, that is not really the case anymore. Maybe if I kept waiting for a year or two, the market would change and the price would come down. I guess I'm just impatient! But it was the wife who suggested me getting a new computer (so the kids could get my old one for their schoolwork), so if she was going to get onboard with this, I was not going to let that chance go to waste. It was also her who picked out the CyberPower computer after she had spent a while researching the options, including buying the components and assembling them ourselves as we were used to doing.

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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by felter » Wed, 2. Feb 22, 05:25

So I ended up on a well known UK seller's website just out of curiosity to see what they were selling, and I have to say they are far superior to that American seller. Not just the hardware, but the website itself. An example for a similar computer:

Ebuyer

The information on what the computer is, what the components are even the photographs are a better quality, let alone when you get to the bottom of the page the comments are about the computer being sold while the American site is about how good the seller is and no customer information on the product being sold. The American seller gives you little to no information on what it is you are actually buying, while the UK seller gives you everything you need to know. Makes me feel like the American site is hiding something.

Falcrack, when you get your computer, you need to do some benchmarking, so we can see how good or bad it actually is. I would recommend doing the testing on your current computer, out of the box for the new one and then again after you change anything, which I find crazy as If I was getting a new computer I wouldn't be thinking I will have to change this, that or the next thing when I get it. Personally, I think you are being ripped off, but hey it's your money and I hope it works out for you.
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Re: choosing a gaming computer

Post by burger1 » Wed, 2. Feb 22, 05:58

Probably the better choice of the two. The ibuypower one definitely would have required a new case.

run memtest86.

run crystal disk.

watch gpu and cpu temperatures. Air block in liquid cooler when shipping can cause cooling issues.

check gpu slot for cracks during shipping. gpu sag going to be an issue?

make sure all ram is showing up in task manager and at the correct speeds. Maybe xmp isn't stable or they just left it at stock speeds? might be nice to know maybe even if your getting rid of the ram.

run unigine heaven free version to test gpu.

plays some games?

check device manager for unknown devices, warnings, etc...

check power supply sticker.

check ram tabs are all lined up and the ram is in.

check the cooler. socket 1700 coolers are different than socket 1200 and previous coolers. Hole spacing, height, cpu die size? Might get free or paid cooler adapter kits.

might have to buy more case fans?

check all wiring plug ins.

look for tabs on the metal i/o shield on the back sticking into ports. Like ethernet port, usb ports, etc...

front usb, etc... ports work or crash pc?

pc comes with win 11. Might need to make extra hard drives gpt if they are mbr. Can easily lose your data in win 11 so back stuff up.

look for diagnostic lights on the mainboard. pc can run but still have the lights on. Cpu might not be contacting the pins ok. Maybe they bent the pins and bent them back?

reset the bios before putting in the new ram. Pc might black screen. Unplug pc, press power button a few times, remove cmos battery for 3+ minutes, put battery back, etc... and try to boot. Set xmp after removing the cmos battery or the ram will run at lower speeds. Check mainboard manual on other pc to see if it supports the ram speed. On ~slower cpus it might just crash also. Might have to manually overclock the ram vs choosing an unstable xmp profile.

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