Russia-Ukraine War

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 18. Nov 22, 18:22

Back onto thread topic please.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Sat, 19. Nov 22, 00:08

JSDD wrote:
Fri, 18. Nov 22, 09:30
another idea to solve that issue:
separatists in the west of ukraine should proclaim a new country, which is territory-wise not occupied, and choose to join nato ...
let the border be the dnipro river ... then next step, sub-divide the western half of "east ukraine" and put that piece of land to nato .. and so on ^^
The separatists are in Donbass. Not sure how you jumped to that?

Anyways discussing dividing Ukraine is pointless. Ukrainians don't need it, Russia won't allow it, Europe has no authority to do it.

But if you want to discuss these topics, do you want to instead discuss dividing post war Russia, and subsequent de Nazi fying?
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by burger1 » Sat, 19. Nov 22, 17:03

Russian energy infrastructure getting targeted? Large explosion outside St Petersburg.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/explosion ... etersburg/

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Sat, 19. Nov 22, 17:33

burger1 wrote:
Sat, 19. Nov 22, 17:03
Russian energy infrastructure getting targeted? Large explosion outside St Petersburg.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/explosion ... etersburg/
baby steps I guess
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Alan Phipps » Sat, 19. Nov 22, 17:35

I suppose now we should wait for the Russian Defence Ministry to claim it was the direct result of involvement by British/NATO Special Forces, as with NordStream. We do seem to get familiar patterns in some of the more unlikely propaganda claims being made.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 20. Nov 22, 15:10

Perun recap and summary of Kherson campaign - good post-action analysis and verification of all random stuff we seen all over internet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxR1jmZTLew

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by mr.WHO » Sun, 20. Nov 22, 20:52

Anyway, a video for all those dumb people who would trust Russia with peace agreement:
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 4337301504

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by chew-ie » Sun, 20. Nov 22, 21:16

What's astonishing by that is that there are really people out there who are believing this - like the narrative about Zelenski not making own decisions. That so ... clumsy. :shock:
Last edited by chew-ie on Sun, 20. Nov 22, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Warenwolf » Sun, 20. Nov 22, 21:53

They are referring to Russia–Chechnya Peace Treaty which was nullified in 1999 and Chechen war round 2 started. This is official propaganda so basically what Kremlin is telling its own people is that any treaty with Ukraine will follow the same route as Chechen wars.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by burger1 » Mon, 21. Nov 22, 04:33

Rumour: Russia might be starting another round of mobilization in late December/January. Their current round may have never really ended?

Ambushing random people with letters in apartment building entrances, etc...

https://youtu.be/sYGx-E5KH8I?t=190

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by UnknownObject » Mon, 21. Nov 22, 21:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex7Z2XqTDaw
Ukrainian version of "Njet, Molotoff"
Last edited by UnknownObject on Tue, 22. Nov 22, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Alan Phipps » Mon, 21. Nov 22, 22:08

Please don't post solitary links without saying what they are, what you think about them and something of their relevance to the topic. I personally tend not to open links without provenance.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Mon, 21. Nov 22, 23:55

Warenwolf wrote:
Sun, 20. Nov 22, 21:53
They are referring to Russia–Chechnya Peace Treaty which was nullified in 1999 and Chechen war round 2 started. This is official propaganda so basically what Kremlin is telling its own people is that any treaty with Ukraine will follow the same route as Chechen wars.
Well... to compare to bloody, hugely unpopular and a lost war - that'd be a good one, I'd enjoy it, but not out of line with Kremlin. Russia is kinda short on proud moments and proud wars. Best we can do is a WW2 celebration without acknowledging the rest of the world.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 00:24

fiksal wrote:
Mon, 21. Nov 22, 23:55
Warenwolf wrote:
Sun, 20. Nov 22, 21:53
They are referring to Russia–Chechnya Peace Treaty which was nullified in 1999 and Chechen war round 2 started. This is official propaganda so basically what Kremlin is telling its own people is that any treaty with Ukraine will follow the same route as Chechen wars.
Well... to compare to bloody, hugely unpopular and a lost war - that'd be a good one, I'd enjoy it, but not out of line with Kremlin. Russia is kinda short on proud moments and proud wars. Best we can do is a WW2 celebration without acknowledging the rest of the world.
Can they really be proud of WW2 since they came in initially on the side of the Nazis? I mean, sure, they realized they made a mistake after Germany betrayed them, but that's not what the Soviet Union wanted and kinda flies in the face of any so called "de-nazification" efforts of theirs or modern day Russia.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by UnknownObject » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 06:18

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 00:24
Can they really be proud of WW2 since they came in initially on the side of the Nazis? I mean, sure, they realized they made a mistake after Germany betrayed them, but that's not what the Soviet Union wanted and kinda flies in the face of any so called "de-nazification" efforts of theirs or modern day Russia.
No, the Soviet Union was not an ally of the Nazis. The Soviet Union and the 3rd Reich hated each other since 1933 and prepared for the war, and Molotov-Ribbentrop's pact was just an attempt to delay the inevitable war, and Stalin was aware the pact was to be broken sooner or later. Actions of the Soviet Union in 1939-1940, including the infamous treaty "On friendship and borders" with Nazis, were just to establish their own sphere of influence, not to help Hitler to expand his own one.
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Warenwolf » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 14:04

fiksal wrote:
Mon, 21. Nov 22, 23:55
Well... to compare to bloody, hugely unpopular and a lost war - that'd be a good one, I'd enjoy it, but not out of line with Kremlin. Russia is kinda short on proud moments and proud wars. Best we can do is a WW2 celebration without acknowledging the rest of the world.
I had more in mind (and I suspect they too) the end of Chechen war 2 - when Kadyrov Senior was installed and de facto Chechenia was reintegrated into Kremlin's fold. The only reason they would mention Khasavyurt Accord.

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by fiksal » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 14:59

Warenwolf wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 14:04
fiksal wrote:
Mon, 21. Nov 22, 23:55
Well... to compare to bloody, hugely unpopular and a lost war - that'd be a good one, I'd enjoy it, but not out of line with Kremlin. Russia is kinda short on proud moments and proud wars. Best we can do is a WW2 celebration without acknowledging the rest of the world.
I had more in mind (and I suspect they too) the end of Chechen war 2 - when Kadyrov Senior was installed and de facto Chechenia was reintegrated into Kremlin's fold. The only reason they would mention Khasavyurt Accord.
That ending is nothing to be proud of either. Chechnya has own laws, and doesn't allow outsiders mess with it. Kadyrov is the best character Kremlin has to offer, everyone everywhere is afraid of him. Russian police would be shot dead, Kadyrov said, if they were to enter his territory; politicians publicly apologize to Kadyrov. Chechnya didn't lose that war.

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 00:24

Can they really be proud of WW2 since they came in initially on the side of the Nazis? I mean, sure, they realized they made a mistake after Germany betrayed them, but that's not what the Soviet Union wanted and kinda flies in the face of any so called "de-nazification" efforts of theirs or modern day Russia.
I am not really sure, we have only known facts to go on, hard to say what Stalin and his band would do if Hitler wouldn't have attacked.

As a blood thirsty murderer himself, was there a scenario when Stalin could be buddies with Hitler? Was there a scenario where Hitler didn't see Russians as lesser?
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Warenwolf » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 21:12

fiksal wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 14:59

That ending is nothing to be proud of either. Chechnya has own laws, and doesn't allow outsiders mess with it. Kadyrov is the best character Kremlin has to offer, everyone everywhere is afraid of him. Russian police would be shot dead, Kadyrov said, if they were to enter his territory; politicians publicly apologize to Kadyrov. Chechnya didn't lose that war.
Well, lets for moment look away from the obvious part that having state leader as Kadyrov on permanent basis cannot be defined as winning however you look at it :wink: .

That being said, I see Kadyrov as a client of Kremlin. I am not saying that you are wrong regarding the civil regulations and such but undeniably his military forces are integral part of the Kremlin's forces with Putin even promoting the guy*.
As we clearly can see in Ukraine where Chechens are being used as cannon fodder for Kremlin. Kinda not something an independent nation would ever willingly chosen to do (help Kremlin conquer Ukraine for....nothing?)

*https://www.dw.com/en/chechen-leader-ra ... a-63368656

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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by JSDD » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 21:34

UnknownObject wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 06:18
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Tue, 22. Nov 22, 00:24
Can they really be proud of WW2 since they came in initially on the side of the Nazis? I mean, sure, they realized they made a mistake after Germany betrayed them, but that's not what the Soviet Union wanted and kinda flies in the face of any so called "de-nazification" efforts of theirs or modern day Russia.
No, the Soviet Union was not an ally of the Nazis. The Soviet Union and the 3rd Reich hated each other since 1933 and prepared for the war, and Molotov-Ribbentrop's pact was just an attempt to delay the inevitable war, and Stalin was aware the pact was to be broken sooner or later. Actions of the Soviet Union in 1939-1940, including the infamous treaty "On friendship and borders" with Nazis, were just to establish their own sphere of influence, not to help Hitler to expand his own one.
the only goal(s) for the nazis was to get control of the oil fields in the caucasus and the wheat areas in ukraine ... "lebensraum im osten" (a.k.a. living space in the east)
soviets just stood in the way of achieving these goals. before that, soviets "schooled" germans how to use real tanks / paratroopers and what not ...

but the same was true for the soviets ...
without azerbajans oil fields and all the grain / wheat from ukraine, communism (under lenin/stalin) wouldn't be able to develop the country in the right direction

the soviet idea / principles weren't that bad ... among the anthems they sang was "La Marseillaise" and "l'internationale". inspired by the age of enlightenment and the ideals of the french revolution, ready to shake off the "ancien regime" that held europe hostage for moer than 1000 years (after the roman era).
the only problem was, that those in power (lenin / stalin / others) tried to justify violence and oppressive measures by the state to achieve those ideals ...
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Re: Russia-Ukraine War

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 22. Nov 22, 22:17

" .. the only problem was, that those in power (lenin / stalin / others) tried to justify violence and oppressive measures by the state to achieve those ideals ..."

Unfortunately, current leadership seems bent on repeating those mistakes of the past in neighbouring nation states as well as at home.
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