Russia-Ukraine War

[mr.WHO]

Classic boy who cried wolf. Russia wasn't even lying when they told everyone they didn't fire the missile, and the fact that nobody believed them for the barest moment is the icing on the cake.

Ironically, Polish goverment and miltiary officials were cautious with pointing fingers for whole time.

The missile impacted around 15:40, then there was goverment silence till 21:00, short statement that something fell and it's investigated.
Then work for whole night and official statement today morning, when we had more complete picture.

...in the mean time, half of the world sends their thoughts and prayers, signs of support and general outcry onto Russia direction

it's kinda reassuring the things didin't go like in badly written action movie.


Oh, and this will put a wrench in Russian narrative that Poland is somehow hellbent on destroying Russia on every possible opportunity.
<sad JASSM noises in the background> Shhh, my boy, we'll get them next time <evil villain laughter>

[burger1]

Wonder if Ukraine used a captured s300 system with missiles that had been modified to attack surface targets?

[fiksal]

Oh, and this will put a wrench in Russian narrative that Poland is somehow hellbent on destroying Russia on every possible opportunity.
<sad JASSM noises in the background> Shhh, my boy, we'll get them next time <evil villain laughter>

it won't matter, it's all part of the western plan to destroy Russia

The rocket that fell on Tuesday in a Polish border village turned out to be Ukrainian. This has been recognized in the West. But they are not ready to accept in Kyiv, insisting on the Russian trace. At the same time, today - from newspapers, which is characteristically British, to the White House - there are a lot of statements in the spirit that Russia is guilty, regardless of the results of the investigation.

Our ambassador was summoned to the Polish Foreign Ministry. At night, he was handed a note demanding immediate clarification, although no one really knew anything yet. Our Foreign Ministry responded by inviting the Polish ambassador at a reasonable time. True, for some reason, a temporary attorney arrived, who spent about 20 minutes in the building on Smolenskaya Square and left without comment. Later it was announced: Moscow demanded an immediate end to anti-Russian speculation and called on Warsaw not to get involved in provocations that suit the Kyiv regime.

Grigory Yemelyanov knows why it is necessary to talk specifically about provocations and how events developed during the day.

[JSDD]

Classic boy who cried wolf. Russia wasn't even lying when they told everyone they didn't fire the missile, and the fact that nobody believed them for the barest moment is the icing on the cake.

Ironically, Polish goverment and miltiary officials were cautious with pointing fingers for whole time.

its one thing if your neighbour gets his as* kicked by the "orcs" ... but another if it's you whos feelin' the pain first hand
in the first case, you can pull out all rethorical tricks to make you look good/cool/hard/noble/..whatever
in the latter case, people wanna see what you gonna do about the issue => "big talk" doesnt matter that much then ... (but that what our politicians are specialized in)

imagine, it is actually a russian missile that has hit that polish border:
-- what you gonny say? ... risk war with russia? (without nukes under your control?) ... suicidal
-- or would you say "sh*t happens, lets forget that issue" ... makes you lokk not that "cool" as a "leader" (no matter what country you represent)
-- another thing: whould you say "yeahh, it was the russians, lets go to war! who'll escort our handful of tanks to russia??" .. and risking, that nobody does ...
(doesnt look that good, neither)

first who "confirmed" that it wasnt a russian missile, were the americans ... who dont wanna risk nuclear war (not even with north korea), keeping the polish "calm"

[Warenwolf]

[
its one thing if your neighbour gets his as* kicked by the "orcs" ... but another if it's you whos feelin' the pain first hand
in the first case, you can pull out all rethorical tricks to make you look good/cool/hard/noble/..whatever
in the latter case, people wanna see what you gonna do about the issue => "big talk" doesnt matter that much then ... (but that what our politicians are specialized in)

imagine, it is actually a russian missile that has hit that polish border:
-- what you gonny say? ... risk war with russia? (without nukes under your control?) ... suicidal
-- or would you say "sh*t happens, lets forget that issue" ... makes you lokk not that "cool" as a "leader" (no matter what country you represent)
-- another thing: whould you say "yeahh, it was the russians, lets go to war! who'll escort our handful of tanks to russia??" .. and risking, that nobody does ...
(doesnt look that good, neither)

first who "confirmed" that it wasnt a russian missile, were the americans ... who dont wanna risk nuclear war (not even with north korea), keeping the polish "calm"

Russia strong argument after their performance in Ukraine so far? You are grasping at straws for proofs that Russia is great (again).
Well, if Kremlin was so convinced that NATO lacks unity (like you are right now) they would have attacked Turkey back in 2015 when they shot down their airplane when the mentioned airplanes kept crossing into their airspace despite warnings.

The only thing Kremlin regime has demonstrated beyond any doubt is their total ineptness. Whenever I thought they reached new bottom - they convinced me that they can get worse. If they cannot handle Ukraine, they would not be able to handle Poland either.

As to nukes - they work both ways buddy. Putin knows that, otherwise he would be launching first strike at US or UK already.

[fiksal]

starting to think JSDD is a Russian agent trying to convince everyone to lay down arms and welcome Russian occupation

[JSDD]

The only thing Kremlin regime has demonstrated beyond any doubt is their total ineptness. Whenever I thought they reached new bottom - they convinced me that they can get worse. If they cannot handle Ukraine, they would not be able to handle Poland either.

lets wait and see ...
a few months more into this war, and ukraine gonna be destroyed. their economy non-existent. many have fled already that country.
who's gonna risk settling / investing in cherson / bachmut / charkiv if you cant be sure that the war is gonna break out over there (again)?

starting to think JSDD is a Russian agent trying to convince everyone to lay down arms and welcome Russian occupation

and you gotta be the (grand)daughter of mccarthy, correct ?!
jokes aside, i just dont see a ukrainian victory coming ... and since they are not ready to negotiate peace, the situation in that country worsens day by day

another idea to solve that issue:
separatists in the west of ukraine should proclaim a new country, which is territory-wise not occupied, and choose to join nato ...
let the border be the dnipro river ... then next step, sub-divide the western half of "east ukraine" and put that piece of land to nato .. and so on ^^

[mr.WHO]

lets wait and see ...
a few months more into this war, and ukraine gonna be destroyed. their economy non-existent. many have fled already that country.
who's gonna risk settling / investing in cherson / bachmut / charkiv if you cant be sure that the war is gonna break out over there (again)?

So far Ukraine is on a road of victory streak last two months.
As for who will want to invest? Pretty much everyone in EU and most of the West - South Korea didn't had an investor problem despite constant threads of war and nuking.
Oh and Russia might invest as well, if those Russian fund blocked in the West will be donated as reparations

another idea to solve that issue:
separatists in the west of ukraine should proclaim a new country, which is territory-wise not occupied, and choose to join nato ...
let the border be the dnipro river ... then next step, sub-divide the western half of "east ukraine" and put that piece of land to nato .. and so on ^^

Nice projection of Putin delusions - there is no "Separatist" movement in the west, nor nato annexation. Pretty much the mirror reflection of this is done right now by Russia in the east...and it's failing

[Warenwolf]

The only thing Kremlin regime has demonstrated beyond any doubt is their total ineptness. Whenever I thought they reached new bottom - they convinced me that they can get worse. If they cannot handle Ukraine, they would not be able to handle Poland either.

lets wait and see ...
a few months more into this war, and ukraine gonna be destroyed. their economy non-existent. many have fled already that country.
who's gonna risk settling / investing in cherson / bachmut / charkiv if you cant be sure that the war is gonna break out over there (again)?

Yeah, pro-Putin crowd has predicting Ukrainians demise three months away for while now. And here we are with Russians right now digging trenches in Crimea 50-80 km behind the current front lines. Ukraine is far from winning this war but Kremlin is even farther away (or maybe they can't read maps and are !advancing" in wrong direction whole time).

As to investments in Ukraine:
Company across the hall of the one I am working in, is interested investing in Kiev to take advantage of relatively cheaper developer resources which we have deficiency of in Nordics. This is basically continuation of their successful pre-war strategy of acquisitions in eastern Europe (from my understanding).
I have also one friend who is also interested in investing in certain type of building material production since they are very sought after material after a war but that depends on existing market conditions. He had already made his first fortune in Balkans after wars finished there and he and his son think they can repeat his strategy in Ukraine post-war.

Now, granted that is not much of data pool but what I have NEVER heard, is someone asking whether investing in Russia would be a good idea after this war. In fact, I know many (mainly in pharmacy industry) who got out from there post-2014 and are now happy that have seen the signs coming. So you see - wars have a cost both ways.

So if you are asking who is willing to invest in Ukraine - not the type of people who you typically find in leftist or far right movements , people who worship Putin's style of leadership. They are not the type that thinks - generally the others do that for them .

[chew-ie]

another idea to solve that issue:
separatists in the west of ukraine should proclaim a new country, which is territory-wise not occupied, and choose to join nato ...
let the border be the dnipro river ... then next step, sub-divide the western half of "east ukraine" and put that piece of land to nato .. and so on ^^

Nice projection of Putin delusions - there is no "Separatist" movement in the west, nor nato annexation. Pretty much the mirror reflection of this is done right now by Russia in the east...and it's failing

Well, in Germany there are some useful idiots (pov Putin) steared up by Putins propaganda (Querdenken, AfD & the like) - but luckily they are minorities and in decline for the last few months. Those tried to push the narrative that NATO is evil & yada yada bla.

As to investments in Ukraine:
Company across the hall of the one I am working in, is interested investing in Kiev to take advantage of relatively cheaper developer resources which we have deficiency of in Nordics. This is basically continuation of their successful pre-war strategy of acquisitions in eastern Europe (from my understanding).
I have also one friend who is also interested in investing in certain type of building material production since they are very sought after material after a war but that depends on existing market conditions. He had already made his first fortune in Balkans after wars finished there and he and his son think they can repeat his strategy in Ukraine post-war.

Now, granted that is not much of data pool but what I have NEVER heard, is someone asking whether investing in Russia would be a good idea after this war. In fact, I know many (mainly in pharmacy industry) who got out from there post-2014 and are now happy that have seen the signs coming. So you see - wars have a cost both ways.

So if you are asking who is willing to invest in Ukraine - not the type of people who you typically find in leftist or far right movements , people who worship Putin's style of leadership. They are not the type that thinks - generally the others do that for them .

Our company also prepares for the phase after the war and will invest in Ukraine. In fact, I'm hiring Ukraine developers which will then be "deployed" in our Ukrainian projects & branches as soon as situation stabilizes. (construction industry)

[mr.WHO]

Winter has arrived:
https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/15 ... 6470768640

[JSDD]

Our company also prepares for the phase after the war and will invest in Ukraine. In fact, I'm hiring Ukraine developers which will then be "deployed" in our Ukrainian projects & branches as soon as situation stabilizes. (construction industry)

why don't you go for indian devs? they are even cheaper ^^
(cause profitsss seems like your one and only key performance indicator, otherwise you'd hire here in germany / other D.A.CH regions, which makes communication easier)

let me ask the question from the other side:
when do you think, the average ukrainian will have the same living standard as they had in pre-war times?
(you know ..the guy on the street you walk by each day when going shopping an so on)

... and what effect has the daily shelling / missile / drone attacks on that "date" ??
no one wants to live in fear, especially if you have opportunities elsewhere (nearby) => ukrainian "brain drain" already happened ...
(former) industrial areas of ukraine are either already occupied by orcs or mainly destroyed

foreign investments may bring a "better living standard" BUT ...
thats the kind of investments that all of europe and the US dont allow the chinese to make inn their respective countries, because of "strategic geopolitical issues"

==> isnt that funny ?! .. you are persuading ukrainians to take "medicine" you yourselves are shying away from ...

[chew-ie]

Our company also prepares for the phase after the war and will invest in Ukraine. In fact, I'm hiring Ukraine developers which will then be "deployed" in our Ukrainian projects & branches as soon as situation stabilizes. (construction industry)

why don't you go for indian devs? they are even cheaper ^^
(cause profitsss seems like your one and only key performance indicator, otherwise you'd hire here in germany / other D.A.CH regions, which makes communication easier)

It's not about being cheaper. The "use developers from india" is old news and long begone. Either they aren't cheap anymore or those who did employ them realized that cheap also means low quality. But that's not the point - skilled programmers are to date nowhere to be found and / or are highly valuable. So it's win-win for us for getting new personnel at all which we also can combine with our long-term prospects. The reality in IT is that those with skill go the freelancer route. Devs from A. CH. stay where they are. D. is empty - for years now. And those not employed are for a reason. Heck, I'm even staffing with career changers.

let me ask the question from the other side:
when do you think, the average ukrainian will have the same living standard as they had in pre-war times?
(you know ..the guy on the street you walk by each day when going shopping an so on)

... and what effect has the daily shelling / missile / drone attacks on that "date" ??
no one wants to live in fear, especially if you have opportunities elsewhere (nearby) => ukrainian "brain drain" already happened ...
(former) industrial areas of ukraine are either already occupied by orcs or mainly destroyed

foreign investments may bring a "better living standard" BUT ...
thats the kind of investments that all of europe and the US dont allow the chinese to make inn their respective countries, because of "strategic geopolitical issues"

==> isnt that funny ?! .. you are persuading ukrainians to take "medicine" you yourselves are shying away from ...

Those paragraphs don't make much sense to me - so no reply from my side.

[Chips]

Those paragraphs don't make much sense to me - so no reply from my side.

You're not alone Oddities of postings.

[Warenwolf]

It's not about being cheaper. The "use developers from india" is old news and long begone. Either they aren't cheap anymore or those who did employ them realized that cheap also means low quality. But that's not the point - skilled programmers are to date nowhere to be found and / or are highly valuable. So it's win-win for us for getting new personnel at all which we also can combine with our long-term prospects. The reality in IT is that those with skill go the freelancer route. Devs from A. CH. stay where they are. D. is empty - for years now. And those not employed are for a reason. Heck, I'm even staffing with career changers.

Same experience I had made in North Europe although my expertise these days is biz development and management. Those SW devs that are not employed are not employed for a very good reason.

[Alan Phipps]

Back onto thread topic please.

[fiksal]

another idea to solve that issue:
separatists in the west of ukraine should proclaim a new country, which is territory-wise not occupied, and choose to join nato ...
let the border be the dnipro river ... then next step, sub-divide the western half of "east ukraine" and put that piece of land to nato .. and so on ^^

The separatists are in Donbass. Not sure how you jumped to that?

Anyways discussing dividing Ukraine is pointless. Ukrainians don't need it, Russia won't allow it, Europe has no authority to do it.

But if you want to discuss these topics, do you want to instead discuss dividing post war Russia, and subsequent de Nazi fying?

[burger1]

Russian energy infrastructure getting targeted? Large explosion outside St Petersburg.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/explosion ... etersburg/

[fiksal]

Russian energy infrastructure getting targeted? Large explosion outside St Petersburg.

https://nypost.com/2022/11/19/explosion ... etersburg/

baby steps I guess

[Alan Phipps]

I suppose now we should wait for the Russian Defence Ministry to claim it was the direct result of involvement by British/NATO Special Forces, as with NordStream. We do seem to get familiar patterns in some of the more unlikely propaganda claims being made.