Russia-Ukraine War

[Cpt.Jericho]

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

..and this suppose to make Russia less bad...how?
Starving tens of millions of people, your own and not your own is still starving millions of people - no matter if it was done directly or indirectly, consciously or by sheer incompetence.
This war course of actions (pillage and looting of crops and forests, bombing of power plants), suggest it's more of a continous conscious tradition.
Complete disregard not only towards Ukrainian civilians, but even towards Russian conscripts, is also in line with historical Russian behavioral patern.


This build an image of nation and goverment full of psyhopaths that need to be walled off, instead of craving the double penetration by Putin pipes.

You're omitting major parts of that part of history.

1. It wasn't the Russian gouvernment (neither current nor past) but the gouvernment of the USSR.Which means: there was no such thing as our people or not our people.
2. Stalin was Georgian not Russian.

By neglectingthose non-Ukrainian death, you also belittle the losses of people in other parts of the USSR.

But, hey, since Russia invaded there aren't any Nazis in Ukraine anymore; corruption there is non-existent; and every dime sent there is helping the troops fighting the good fight.
Oh, I almost forgot: Information coming from Ukraine is always right, never propaganda that goes unchecked into print.

P.S.: @JSDD
There are no hippies in the German gouvernment. Only post-pacifists, post-anti-nuclear powerists, post-environmentalists and pre-millionaires (and some pre-billionaries, probably).

[Chips]

very clever

as "clever" as the attempt to accuse russia of genocide for a famine in ukraine, thats what the current hippi-led government of germany these days does
omitting all those facts (most people dont know) that ... (you can read them in german wikipedia)
--> in kazachstan, twice as many people died (relative to the population, but today nobody seems to care about that, at least not in the german government)
--> in russia, the famine caused almost the same number of starved people (3 million in russia, 3.5 in ukraine)
--> nobody "killed" anybody, people just starved to death because of political (lets call them) "mistakes" which led to a "peasants war"
--> "kulaks" were exterminated or deported, those remaining peasants didnt earn much for their work so at some point in time they tried to flee the fields

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLfoJTW ... WallStreet
--> hunger was always present in the soviet union of the 1930s, even in tsarist times peaants in central russia crawled over the fields to find something to eat

..and this suppose to make Russia less bad...how?
Starving tens of millions of people, your own and not your own is still starving millions of people - no matter if it was done directly or indirectly, consciously or by sheer incompetence.
This war course of actions (pillage and looting of crops and forests, bombing of power plants), suggest it's more of a continous conscious tradition.
Complete disregard not only towards Ukrainian civilians, but even towards Russian conscripts, is also in line with historical Russian behavioral patern.


This build an image of nation and goverment full of psyhopaths that need to be walled off, instead of craving the double penetration by Putin pipes.

You're omitting major parts of that part of history.

1. It wasn't the Russian gouvernment (neither current nor past) but the gouvernment of the USSR.Which means: there was no such thing as our people or not our people.
2. Stalin was Georgian not Russian.

By neglectingthose non-Ukrainian death, you also belittle the losses of people in other parts of the USSR.

But, hey, since Russia invaded there aren't any Nazis in Ukraine anymore; corruption there is non-existent; and every dime sent there is helping the troops fighting the good fight.
Oh, I almost forgot: Information coming from Ukraine is always right, never propaganda that goes unchecked into print.

P.S.: @JSDD
There are no hippies in the German gouvernment. Only post-pacifists, post-anti-nuclear powerists, post-environmentalists and pre-millionaires (and some pre-billionaries, probably).

They also didn't mention:

The Cambodian Genocide
The Armenian Genocide
The Rwandan Genocide
The Greek Genocide
Dzungar genocide
Assyrian Genocide
Croatian Holocaust
Hutus during the first congo war
Armenian massacres
Romani Genocide
Darfur
Ikiza
Asiatic Vespers
Isaaq Genocide
Anfal Genocide
Crimean Tatars
Guatemalan genocide
Aboriginal Genocide of Queensland
Rohingya genocide
Bosnian genocide
Parsley Massacre
Haiti Massacre
Yazidis
Moriori genocide
Uyghur
Punic wars (third)

but why would they... I'd need convincing why failing to mention any of the above (or any other instance) in the same breath is remotely relevant or pertinent. In fact, please outline why its supposedly relevant to acknowledge every instance, or talk about every instance, otherwise it undermines any instance being discussed.

Oh wait, whataboutery doesn't require it does it

[Cpt.Jericho]

Well, ignore the fact that todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.

[Falcrack]

Well, ignore the fact that todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.

The USSR was simply Russia that was subjugating the rest of the Soviet Republics. The heart and core of the USSR was Russia.

[Cpt.Jericho]

That's fake-news.

[Falcrack]

That's fake-news.

The term "fake news" is most often thrown around by those who themselves play fast and loose with the truth.

[Cpt.Jericho]

USSR wasn't Russian-led. Unless you can quote a source that can reliable validate that only Russians have led the USSR.
Which they haven't as:

a) Stalin was born inTiflis, which is Georgia these days
b) Brezhnev was born Kamianske, which is Ukraine the days

And talking about being fast and loose with the truth: No Russian missle has hit Poland rencently killing two; it was was a Soviet one.

[fiksal]

Alright, let check today with our local historian and USSR specialist, Cpt Jericho

todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.
...
USSR wasn't Russian-led.

You need to be a bit more precise with what you are asking.

USSR was formed by joining republics into it. The capital of USSR was Moscow. The capital of Russia is also Moscow.
USSR was lead by the Communist party, that had headquaters in Moscow.
When USSR disolved, its responsibilities went to newly formed Russia, and new president, Yeltsin.

Do you want links or can you google the above?

Politically and economonically USSR and Russia are very different. But to most Russians, Russia is the USSR and the continuation of the previous state.


re: "USSR wasn't Russian-led".

Is this a quesiton of citizenship, nationality or some blood purity? What years? It also not the same thing as your first question.

That's fake-news.

The term "fake news" is most often thrown around by those who themselves play fast and loose with the truth.

Oh yes, the Lügenpresse

[mr.WHO]

It's always convinient for Russia to claim good things from USSR, but the moment something bad is mention, it's always "USSR is not Russia".

It's like claiming England is not the United Kindom, yet it's hard to find people blaming Welsh or Irish for British imperialism.

Russia is USSR sucessor, legally, historically and mentally.
It doesn't mean anything that Stalin was born in Georgia, since he spent most of his life and ruled from Moscow.
Again it's very convinient that vast majority of Russians see Stalin as great leader, but the moment there is pointing fingers it's "Stalin was Georgian".

[fiksal]

if one says in Russia that Russia isn't USSR, vice versa, or didn't lead it, you'd be laughed at all the way to Gulag.

anyways, I am down to a good thread on Stalin and USSR if we want. Would be curious to know what our local fans of Putin think of Stalin

[mr.WHO]

Russia announcing it's Lebensraum (+ ein russian volk to everyone there):
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 3760073729

At least they are kind enough to give us 10-20 years to prepare welcome party.

<Poland dials US>
PL -Hello, those X-37 orbital bombers, I want 6 of those!
US - We only have 3!
<Poland drops the phone>
<Poland dials South Korea>
PL - ORBITAL BOMBERS! DON'T ASK QUESTIONS.
SK - if you want factory and a space port with that, then we have a deal.

[fiksal]

Russia announcing it's Lebensraum (+ ein russian volk to everyone there):
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 3760073729

At least they are kind enough to give us 10-20 years to prepare welcome party.

I double checked the translation at least, it's correct. Russian fascism on display.

But hey, indeed, that was nice of them to give a timeline.

I have a counter offer. What if, in lets say in 9 years Russia is several peaceful countries?

[Warenwolf]

Russia announcing it's Lebensraum (+ ein russian volk to everyone there):
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 3760073729

At least they are kind enough to give us 10-20 years to prepare welcome party.

I double checked the translation at least, it's correct. Russian fascism on display.

But hey, indeed, that was nice of them to give a timeline.

I have a counter offer. What if, in lets say in 9 years Russia is several peaceful countries?

I wonder what tune those that claim that NATO serves no purpose and should be dissolved will sing now...

Russia 1 is state owned television and propagates largely the official position of Kremlin and Kremlin's desired influences on the larger Russian opinion. According to wiki, it is viewed by 75% of the population.

[mr.WHO]

I have a counter offer. What if, in lets say in 9 years Russia is several peaceful countries?

That would be nice dream, but I'm afraid it's wishful thinking.

We are living in a strange timeline where Polish Space Force is more likely than peace in Europe.

We bought & lease several recon satellites and develop domesticaly produced micro-sattelites.
Aparently we funded 1/3 of Stalink terminals donated for Ukraine, so we probably have Elon on speed dial as well.

Give us 15 years, daily murder/rape/pillage threats from Putin cronies as motivation and we will reach the stars out of sheer necessity.

[clakclak]

Russia announcing it's Lebensraum (+ ein russian volk to everyone there):
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/stat ... 3760073729

At least they are kind enough to give us 10-20 years to prepare welcome party.

I double checked the translation at least, it's correct. Russian fascism on display.

But hey, indeed, that was nice of them to give a timeline.

I have a counter offer. What if, in lets say in 9 years Russia is several peaceful countries?

I wonder what tune those that claim that NATO serves no purpose and should be dissolved will sing now...
[...]

I will indulge you. I was never a true opponent of NATO, but I would lie if I would say that I was not sceptical of it in the past. For a bit of context. I was born after the fall of the Soviet Union. To me the first thing associated with NATO that I followed with political interest was operation Resolute Support in Afghanistan. Now you may understand why that did not exactly convince me of NATO. Add to that Turkey's attacks against groups which had previously been supplied and supported by other NATO countries and to me NATO seemed like a disorganised and quarrelling relic from another time. Saying that my impression didn't change when Russia invaded Ukraine would be wrong. A new situation forced me to re-evaluate my previously held opinion. I will probably never run naked through the streets waving a NATO flag, but I have changed my opinion on NATO's existence in so-far as I can understand why it gives people a very warm feeling of security and safety. NATO is an effective deterrent not only on paper and I was wrong in my assesment of the value of such a deterrent in our current times.

[JSDD]

Well, ignore the fact that todays Russia isn't the USSR as much as you want.

The USSR was simply Russia that was subjugating the rest of the Soviet Republics. The heart and core of the USSR was Russia.

perhaps by "subjugating" you also mean making crimea a gift to the ukrainians, right !?
seems like you are ignoring the fact that half of europe had tendencies to intstall a soviet government in their respective countries (in germany / hungary / italy / ...)
in bavaria for example people installed a mini soviet union, but were knocked down by right-wing paramilitaries

They also didn't mention:

... (huge list of genocides)

but why would they... I'd need convincing why failing to mention any of the above (or any other instance) in the same breath is remotely relevant or pertinent. In fact, please outline why its supposedly relevant to acknowledge every instance, or talk about every instance, otherwise it undermines any instance being discussed.

Oh wait, whataboutery doesn't require it does it

kazachstan was part of the same government
kazachstan lies just beside ukraine
kazachstan was also starving, in a MUCH more serious way

if you jump out of the woods, and start shouting "oh holodomore" while cuddling among ukrainians, and ignoring kazachstan, you are just a showcase for "selective perception" (that my view on it )

[mr.WHO]

kazachstan was part of the same government
kazachstan lies just beside ukraine
kazachstan was also starving, in a MUCH more serious way

if you jump out of the woods, and start shouting "oh holodomore" while cuddling among ukrainians, and ignoring kazachstan, you are just a showcase for "selective perception" (that my view on it )

Except that Kazahstan is mostly arid wasteland, while Ukraine is literally the most fertile land on European continent - you really have to put your mind to it in order to have people starving in Ukraine.

[fiksal]

I have a counter offer. What if, in lets say in 9 years Russia is several peaceful countries?

That would be nice dream, but I'm afraid it's wishful thinking.

It is now. First Russians need to turn on Kremlin, or Putin's regime needs to collapse due to inability to defeat Ukraine.

Hopefully there are some thoughts on this for "post war" Russia among world leaders and Russian folks alike, right now. Someone's gotta drag the country out of the Tsarist imperialism and fascism.

[mr.WHO]

It is now. First Russians need to turn on Kremlin, or Putin's regime needs to collapse due to inability to defeat Ukraine.

Hopefully there are some thoughts on this for "post war" Russia among world leaders and Russian folks alike, right now. Someone's gotta drag the country out of the Tsarist imperialism and fascism.

Looking how they treat their own conscripts, I don't see how this can be done "peaceful".
I don't think there will be another Yeltzin, climbing on the tanks.

[fiksal]

It is now. First Russians need to turn on Kremlin, or Putin's regime needs to collapse due to inability to defeat Ukraine.

Hopefully there are some thoughts on this for "post war" Russia among world leaders and Russian folks alike, right now. Someone's gotta drag the country out of the Tsarist imperialism and fascism.

Looking how they treat their own conscripts, I don't see how this can be done "peaceful".
I don't think there will be another Yeltzin, climbing on the tanks.

Yeltzin time wasnt quite peaceful either. At least one person died I recall, and tank fired onto a government building. Just mild unsuccessful revolution I guess.

Putin's regime never approached anything peacefully, I dont see why anyone else should.