W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

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red assassin
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by red assassin » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 00:15

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:56
greypanther wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:44
OK, all very interesting, but it's not really helping, at least not me. :) :wink:

I have looked in the BIOS and can see nothing obvious, don't know where to look really, any suggestions? The CPU is an intel i9-9900K, so not exactly that old, but still discontinued. :roll: The motherboard is an Asus one, forget the number, but it seems I need to drop Asus an email to try and find out which way to go.

I was hoping this PC would last beyond 2025 to be honest, my last one, which is still running fine on Windows 7, ( not on the internet! )is about 10+ years old. Ah well no point worrying about it yet I suppose, perhaps start saving for the next PC though...
Look for a setting called "PTT" (intel chipsets) or "fTPM" (AMD chipsets).
I found this screenshot of an Asus Intel BIOS, though I don't know how consistent they are between devices:
https://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content ... 45x484.jpg
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 00:45

That's wot it looks like in mine. If he has an ASUS, should be right there.

BTW, don't be alarmed if your PC power cycles a couple of times after enabling that setting. Seems to be necessary to enabled certain parts of the firmware.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 09:45

Gigabyte's Intel Z170 chipset-based motherboard (6th gen CPU, aka Skylake) released 2015 (latest "BIOS" 2018) has both a header for physical TPM module and Intel Platform Trust Technology (PTT). The option is in "Peripherals" tab.

Gigabyte's Intel Z87 chipset-based motherboard (4th gen CPU, aka Haswell) released 2013 (latest "BIOS" 2014) has only a header for physical TPM module. No PTT.


*) "BIOS" as both really have Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI), not Basic Input/Output System. The old acronym has stuck.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 10:03

I'm lucky that by 10.2025 I'll be around that part of a cycle where I'll be looking for replacement of both my laptops (one will be 7-years old and other will be 5-years old).
Hopefully by then W11 will get out of all infancy stage quirks.

One thing I'm concer is that Microsoft meme that every second Windows is crap, and MS seems to be unable to break the meme.

IMO it would be best if MS would keep support last two systems and decomission it only, when third one is released.
I upgraded from Win7 to Win10 (and from XP to Win7 before), skipping Win8 and Vista altogether - many of my friends complained alot about them, so I'm happy I skipped.

If Win11 would be crap, I'd wish to do the same, but it might be impossible, if they stop support Win10 and get into Win11 only.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 11:40

BTW I found this at the bottom of Win11 wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11

In a separate support document, Microsoft has now confirmed that TPM chip is not required upon approval from the company.[71] Additionally, users will be able to bypass the TPM requirement by modifying their registry or installation media.[72]

[71]
https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/2 ... thout-tpm/

[72]
https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/2 ... quirement/


Both things doesn't seems like set in stone, so this still might change either way.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by greypanther » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:44

red assassin wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 00:15
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:56
greypanther wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:44
OK, all very interesting, but it's not really helping, at least not me. :) :wink:

I have looked in the BIOS and can see nothing obvious, don't know where to look really, any suggestions? The CPU is an intel i9-9900K, so not exactly that old, but still discontinued. :roll: The motherboard is an Asus one, forget the number, but it seems I need to drop Asus an email to try and find out which way to go.

I was hoping this PC would last beyond 2025 to be honest, my last one, which is still running fine on Windows 7, ( not on the internet! )is about 10+ years old. Ah well no point worrying about it yet I suppose, perhaps start saving for the next PC though...
Look for a setting called "PTT" (intel chipsets) or "fTPM" (AMD chipsets).
I found this screenshot of an Asus Intel BIOS, though I don't know how consistent they are between devices:
https://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content ... 45x484.jpg
Thank you, both you and Vertigo 7, I have now found it and it is indeed there. :thumb_up:

It is not labelled as TPM though, but Intel Trusted Platform or something similar. Why the need to make things cryptic? Why not just use plain language? Certainly it would lower my blood pressure! :roll:

I have not enabled it yet, as that seems like it could present other new problems, or so the warning says... Any more information about TPM and how needed it is on a desktop running Windows 10? Seems to me to be not needed at the moment, so maybe best left alone for now. MS also seem to be backtracking a little. If it ain't broke, don't try to mend it? :)

Edit: Just to add, THANK GOODNESS FOR THIS FORUM AND THE REMAINING CLEVER PEOPLE THAT STILL FREQUENT IT. It might be a lot quieter than it used to be, but still essential for idiots like me! :D
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 14:14

greypanther wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:44
It is not labelled as TPM though, but Intel Trusted Platform or something similar. Why the need to make things cryptic? Why not just use plain language?
TPM is an international standard (ISO/IEC 11889) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module
Does ISO/IEC have any plain language entries? :roll:

Intel's PTT is a firmware implementation of TPM. Kind of like "Wartburg 353" was a "car". PTT is from 2013, released with Intel 4th gen CPU's.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 19:09

Image

I'll post up my thoughts after I give it a work out.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by greypanther » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 20:08

jlehtone wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 14:14
greypanther wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 12:44
It is not labelled as TPM though, but Intel Trusted Platform or something similar. Why the need to make things cryptic? Why not just use plain language?
TPM is an international standard (ISO/IEC 11889) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module
Does ISO/IEC have any plain language entries? :roll:

Intel's PTT is a firmware implementation of TPM. Kind of like "Wartburg 353" was a "car". PTT is from 2013, released with Intel 4th gen CPU's.
I suspect you misunderstand, or maybe I do! I am sure TPM is the correct and accepted name for it, however, Asus and Intel do not appear to use it, they have their own phrase. I mean why make it easy when a more esoteric way is better, eh? If they want to rename it something else, ( goodness knows why they need to, ) wouldn't it be at least common courtesy to inform users of this in provided literature about products? :roll:

Without the help/translation provided here, I would still be none the wiser...
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 20:36

Isn't "ibuprofen" well-known name for a painkiller? Why is the list of brand names of drugs that are effectively ibuprofen longer than my screen? Marketing, IPR, trademarks, ...

For whatever reason Intel has named their non-hardware product in their own way.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53

this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png

So far, everything is going smoothly. Only thing that doesn't seem to be working correctly is pinning things to the start menu, but likely a bug, though the "All apps" and searching by name still work as expected. Still, so far everything I've thrown at it thus far is working just as it did in 10 and the migration was no headache at all... just a few reboots, login, done.

Anywho, gonna let it bake for a short while and i'll be back with my experiences with this first round of the insider release.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by red assassin » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53
this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:54

red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Mon, 28. Jun 21, 21:53
this is freaking cool... so simple, why didn't they do this sooner? can't tell you how many times this would have come in handy...

https://i.imgur.com/1WzpBWL.png
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Wow, you're right. Wasn't even aware they released that... but still glad it's being included and default for W11...

as far as 3rd party terminals, I knew they were out there but I've never looked into them since the stock terminals got the job done. Oh well, new for me and I'm sure i'll make use of it.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 05:19

So after the first good bit of the day dinking around with this, I've not run into anything show stopping. All the games I have recently played still run just fine, including X4. My VPN and MFA stuff still works as do all of my work related client apps, and virtualizations. So business as usual.

Some things will take some getting used to, which I'll detail below, but overall, it's Windows and they're not reinventing the wheel so if you're familiar with Windows 10, 11 likely won't be a shock to migrate to.

Bear in mind, this is based on the first dev preview release so the final GA release could be different.

Some things that have notably changed:

File explorer - gone are the copy/paste shortcuts from the right click menu. Instead they've been moved to the top bar and into a static menu if you right click and then click "show more options", which will bring up the same right click menu that's present in Windows 10. Along with that, the ribbon has been removed completely and the top portion of file explorer is dedicated completely to file management and sorting options.
Image

If you don't use keyboard shortcuts for copy/paste and such, I can see having quick access to them at the top of file explorer enabling you to perform those tasks slightly faster, but you will have to retrain yourself to use them.

The Start menu - There's plenty of pictures of the start menu out there and there's not a whole lot you can do to it, other than move the taskbar alignment to the left or center, which does move the start menu with it. The bug I mentioned in a previous post about not being able to pin items did resolve itself after a reboot so I can pin w/e I want to it. Tbh, I did get rather used to grouping apps in the start menu in Windows 10 and I had a layout I liked. I'm fine with the smaller icons in Windows 11 start menu, but perhaps there's an opportunity to optionally use grouping with the pinned stuff on the start menu.

The start menu doesn't grow if you pin a bunch of stuff to it. It seems to have a static height/width relative to the position of the start button. Instead, if you add a bunch of stuff it'll create additional pages to scroll through. Though pinning everything you install is likely unnecessary as there is still the "all apps" sub menu that lists everything alphabetically as it is in Windows 10.

Settings - lotta changes to settings but they've made it less cumbersome to navigate and have more logically grouped things together. Not gonna go over much of this in detail since most folks won't likely be spending a lot of time in there, but I will say it's snappy and easier to find what you're looking for.

Snapping - this is a feature I was looking forward to and I gotta say it's pretty neat. Hover your mouse over the maximize button on any app and it'll bring up predefined layouts that will fit whichever monitor dimensions you're using the app on and will highlight each section of the divided up window to pick an app to fit to it. But it doesn't stop there. Each of the horizontal and vertical boundaries created can be moused over and drug to dynamically resize apps on either side of it to meet your needs. As was mentioned in the unveiling announcement, all of those apps you've snapped are grouped together in the task bar so if you minimize any or all of them, you can hover over any of those applications and the grouping will be there next to the preview thumbnail and can restore them all back to the way you had them positioned.


For now, in conclusion, my experience has been fine thus far, minus one bug where the taskbar icons aren't populating on my other monitors despite that being enabled. I'll peruse the android app offerings in the coming days, if there's any in there I might be interested in running, just to see how that plays out. Everything seems stable, however, and feels faster... not that Windows 10 was at all slow for me, and it does look a bit nicer, to me at any rate. I'll be interested to see where this goes over the next few months.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by pjknibbs » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:21

red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Never heard of that before, so I just went and installed it. Interesting little tool. Vertigo, in Windows 11 is that what you get when you right-click the Start button instead of the Powershell option that's there in W10?

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:31

pjknibbs wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 07:21
red assassin wrote:
Tue, 29. Jun 21, 00:30
Isn't that just Windows Terminal? It's been available for Windows 10 since 2019. And don't get me wrong, it's solid and leagues better than the old console, but there have been third party terminals for Windows that do all this for decades, never mind for other operating systems.
Never heard of that before, so I just went and installed it. Interesting little tool. Vertigo, in Windows 11 is that what you get when you right-click the Start button instead of the Powershell option that's there in W10?
yeah, windows terminal and windows terminal (admin)
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 30. Jun 21, 00:52

They fixed HDR! I just flipped it on for the first time in forever and it's clean, even with just text and SDR content. I'm gonna leave it on from now on...
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 09:28

Kinda interesting YT video why you shouldn't install Win11 if you do not meet requirements:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF6lu6IzIo8

IMO there is no pressure since Win10 will still be fully supported till October 2025 (and probably partially way beyond that, just like Win7 was).


Personally, I plan to update from Win10 to Win11 in spring, to let them iron any bugs and issues for a few months, just in case (again, no pressure, no FOMO, plus in case something would actually go wrong I don't have to go find the fixer in ****** atumn weather :D ).

Edit:
One of Win11 reviewes that poped-up in my YT feed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnlqKXijyY4

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 19:00

BTW, aparently the free upgrade from Win10 to Win11 will be available till mid 2022.

Still, who knows?
The same was suppose to be from Win7/8 upgrade to Win10, yet it was possible to do free update for very very long (or still is? I updated my old Laptop Win7 to Win10 like two years ago).

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by felter » Wed, 6. Oct 21, 23:32

Can you move the task bar to the left-hand side with the start button in the top left-hand corner, like the way I have it right now?
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