W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

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Vertigo 7
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Tue, 19. Oct 21, 14:39

Terre wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 08:34
"Receiving a prompt for administrative credentials every time you attempt to print" added to the list.

Windows 11 known issues and notifications
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 728msgdesc

Microsoft Windows 11 Support Statement (Inkjet Printer) from Brother.
https://support.brother.com/g/b/osconte ... n&ossid=14
You might receive a prompt for administrative credentials every time you attempt to print in environments in which the print server and print client are in different times zones.

Note The affected environments described in this issue are not commonly used by devices designed for home use. The printing environments affected by this issue are more commonly found in enterprises and organizations.

-pretty significant detail to leave out and not something exclusive to Windows 11 either.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 19. Oct 21, 20:13

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 14:39
Terre wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 08:34
"Receiving a prompt for administrative credentials every time you attempt to print" added to the list.
... not something exclusive to Windows 11 either.
That is probably same or related to ... recent weeks we were not able to print if (Enterprise) Windows 10 was not up to date and OS X clients could not print at all. Something about print server. My Linux has had troubles authenticating to ("SMB") server all the time, but at the time printing was supposedly impossible ... I was able to print. :? Point is, nobody had Windows 11; one can perhaps blame MS at large, but not 11 in particular.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 20. Oct 21, 04:08

jlehtone wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 20:13
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 14:39
Terre wrote:
Tue, 19. Oct 21, 08:34
"Receiving a prompt for administrative credentials every time you attempt to print" added to the list.
... not something exclusive to Windows 11 either.
That is probably same or related to ... recent weeks we were not able to print if (Enterprise) Windows 10 was not up to date and OS X clients could not print at all. Something about print server. My Linux has had troubles authenticating to ("SMB") server all the time, but at the time printing was supposedly impossible ... I was able to print. :? Point is, nobody had Windows 11; one can perhaps blame MS at large, but not 11 in particular.
Ehh, I dunno. Wouldn't think that'd be related. There's been some changes to the print queue service to remediate the print nightmare CVE and it's entirely possible something got overlooked that impacted printing from a different time zone - something in of itself that wouldn't be a routine occurrence. I'd imagine the total number of impacted users would be pretty small. But if there was something that broke printing in general for non-windows clients, with as much printing that goes on with all of the hospitals my org deals with, emails would have been flying and it's been quiet on that front. Perhaps someone got over zealous with security policies or something trying to secure the print servers?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 20. Oct 21, 10:12

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Wed, 20. Oct 21, 04:08
Perhaps someone got over zealous with security policies or something trying to secure the print servers?
I would not be surprised.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Chips » Thu, 21. Oct 21, 14:04

matthewfarmery wrote:
Mon, 18. Oct 21, 15:50
I was in hospital recently, (had a nasty insect bite) and te screens behind the doc, I'm, pretty sure the OS was still windows 7, I had a feeling it was. And the NHS (national health service) in the UK, is struggling. so I doubt they will have the money to upgrade systems to support windows 11, especially if some computers / servers are still on windows 7. So again, it might be easy to say, businesses can upgrade. But reality is, those of the small business end especially in the UK / EU with raising costs. May have to decide what to do. and again I doubt many will be happy with this change.

So very wrong of MS to think everyone will have the funds to able to afford £2000+ systems.
Erm, won't that be because software they're running isn't compatible (or hasn't been tested fully) with windows 8/10/11 etc. Otherwise they'd have rolled out windows 10 upgrade surely.

Where was I working where it was Windows XP still only 5 years ago :D :D :D They've moved on now... but it's not the OS version that limited them per se. It was the simple fact that programs/applications they rely upon were either non compatible or more likely, not tested to ensure working fine, with a newer version. I know some were legacy and the cost of re-writing was ... lets put it this way. Big budgets required, and since the network was air gapped, they deemed it not significant enough risk at that time to prioritise their budgets for OS upgrades.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by CBJ » Thu, 21. Oct 21, 16:19

Chips wrote:
Thu, 21. Oct 21, 14:04
Erm, won't that be because software they're running isn't compatible (or hasn't been tested fully) with windows 8/10/11 etc. Otherwise they'd have rolled out windows 10 upgrade surely.
It's the bit in brackets in your post that slows down OS rollout in large organisations, particularly ones like hospitals where software failure could be life-threatening. You have to be 100% sure that all the software your users need will run on the new OS, and that there won't be any interoperability problems during the rollout either. Luckily these sorts of large organisations will also have extended support contracts with Microsoft, to ensure that the OS platform they are running doesn't go out of support (for them, at least) before they are ready to switch.
matthewfarmery wrote:
Mon, 18. Oct 21, 15:50
So very wrong of MS to think everyone will have the funds to able to afford £2000+ systems.
This is a strawman argument. Systems capable of running Win11 simply don't cost £2000. In fact you can get a laptop that will run Win11 for £200, even now after all the price rises. A business that can't afford to spend £200 with 3 years' warning to replace a 10+ year old PC probably has bigger issues than its IT systems.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 22. Oct 21, 04:20

CBJ wrote:
Thu, 21. Oct 21, 16:19
Chips wrote:
Thu, 21. Oct 21, 14:04
Erm, won't that be because software they're running isn't compatible (or hasn't been tested fully) with windows 8/10/11 etc. Otherwise they'd have rolled out windows 10 upgrade surely.
It's the bit in brackets in your post that slows down OS rollout in large organisations, particularly ones like hospitals where software failure could be life-threatening. You have to be 100% sure that all the software your users need will run on the new OS, and that there won't be any interoperability problems during the rollout either. Luckily these sorts of large organisations will also have extended support contracts with Microsoft, to ensure that the OS platform they are running doesn't go out of support (for them, at least) before they are ready to switch.
What's often the case is that some developer/vendor wrote some app a thousand years ago and went out of business, but the doctors/staff in certain clinics just have to have that application and there isn't a suitable replacement available or potential replacements carry a ridiculous price tag with it. In my experience, it's most frequently associated with MRI and XRay imaging applications.

Some of the bigger names in the medical field, like Cerner, Athena, McKesson, Epic, FetaLink, and others have been pretty good about keeping their applications ready to move into newer OS's. And there's also the cloud hosting, which many of them are embracing, which makes replacing end user systems trivial, thankfully.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Terre » Fri, 22. Oct 21, 08:11

A little light reading.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by alt3rn1ty » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 02:40

There is always the possibility that those out there without TPM2 who have specifications otherwise very capable of running windows 11 (I'm guessing but I think that would be a lot of machines not worth turning your nose up against from MS POV), may well get windows 11 offered eventually. Once MS have hoovered up the majority of the captive market and maybe made a few decide its time for a new machine, they may decide to ease off on the system requirements to suck everyone else in. Probably wont ever be available for really old systems, but if its just a case of TPM2 holding it back, MS changing their mind sometime next year would not surprise me and they will then be in a more experienced position to decide they can additionally support a few more machine specifications for the duration of win 11. I mean why not?, its more people using a Microsoft Account and OneDrive for MS to hoover up the market research data from onboard their cloud servers :)
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 03:09

I doubt it. What would be the point? There's no cpu/mobo combo in production today that doesn't have tpm 2.0 integrated and that's been the case for a few years now. That would be taking a step backwards as far as security is concerned. With all the whining some engage in about security and windows, one would think that a decision to exclude systems that are incapable of a certain security standard from running W11 would be applauded.

It's interesting too that no one raised an eyebrow that there's no 32 bit offering of Windows 11. Some how, people managed to transition from running 32 bit versions of Windows and their worlds didn't come to an end. All of those 8 and 16 bit apps they used to run haven't mattered for many years and that door is about to be officially shut. But some how this tpm issue does matter?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Gavrushka » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 08:24

I gotta say, I can now wholeheartedly approve of Microsoft's decision to enforce a security level that precludes less watertight systems from using it. The financial outlay for a system capable of supporting Win 11 is small, and I think I'm right in saying that all but the most basic of new systems will support it. (Those that don't are in the main due to inadequate storage, rather than poor security, I believe?)

But what has me scratching my head is why was my system, less than a year old and costing well over £2,000, supplied without the security protocol enabled? Is it a 'factory setting' default or did the system builders disable it?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by pjknibbs » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 12:24

Gavrushka wrote:
Mon, 25. Oct 21, 08:24
But what has me scratching my head is why was my system, less than a year old and costing well over £2,000, supplied without the security protocol enabled? Is it a 'factory setting' default or did the system builders disable it?
Realistically, until Windows 11 made it an actual requirement, you wouldn't need TPM in most cases as a home user. Business users had more of a case for having it enabled.

Of the five machines I use on the regular (two laptops, work PC, TV/Media streaming PC and gaming PC) only the gaming PC is capable of being upgraded to Windows 11, but I'm going to hold off a few months to actually update that one. I have four years to replace the others with newer kit.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 12:43

Question - currently on both my laptops I have to get into update menu and I see that they are compactibilie with Win11, but the update will be unlocked at later term.

When the update will be avaliable, with there be some kind of intrusive/irritating pop up like in the past with Win10 update?

Or will it just sit quite in update menu till I decide to run it?

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 25. Oct 21, 17:53

pjknibbs wrote:
Mon, 25. Oct 21, 12:24
Gavrushka wrote:
Mon, 25. Oct 21, 08:24
But what has me scratching my head is why was my system, less than a year old and costing well over £2,000, supplied without the security protocol enabled? Is it a 'factory setting' default or did the system builders disable it?
Realistically, until Windows 11 made it an actual requirement, you wouldn't need TPM in most cases as a home user. Business users had more of a case for having it enabled.

Of the five machines I use on the regular (two laptops, work PC, TV/Media streaming PC and gaming PC) only the gaming PC is capable of being upgraded to Windows 11, but I'm going to hold off a few months to actually update that one. I have four years to replace the others with newer kit.
ehhhh it does help add a layer of protection for home users as well. The TPM is used to encrypt stored passwords and authentications with Windows Hello if you're using a pin or biometrics to log in instead of the default encryption mechanism as well as provide some protections against root kits and ransomware. On the whole, it's better to have than not and it won't impact your day to day operations in the slightest.

As to why it was disabled prior, the only reason I can think of is there's the possibility you may have to wipe the TPM before reinstalling an OS. As a matter of fact, if you have to reinstall Windows from fresh using the same PC but a clean drive, the secure boot feature will have a hash stored for the previous iteration of Windows and will need to be reset before the BIOS will allow a new OS to be added.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Tue, 26. Oct 21, 07:54

mr.WHO wrote:
Mon, 25. Oct 21, 12:43
Question - currently on both my laptops I have to get into update menu and I see that they are compactibilie with Win11, but the update will be unlocked at later term.

When the update will be avaliable, with there be some kind of intrusive/irritating pop up like in the past with Win10 update?

Or will it just sit quite in update menu till I decide to run it?
Huh, I guess my question has been answered today.
It's just windows update icon in lower right-corner similar to a normal one, but with blue dot insted the orange one - not intrusive nor irritating - I guess Microsoft learned some lessons since Win10.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by felter » Mon, 1. Nov 21, 03:54

So win 11 is supposed to be the most secure OS that Microsoft has made, it even has that TPM thingy majig. So what would happen if you released a Malware virus from 2016 onto it, well let's see what happen when Memz is introduced to it, I mean the virus was released around the middle of 2016, so you would expect the most modern and secure OS to zap it straight away, right. :D
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 1. Nov 21, 04:43

felter wrote:
Mon, 1. Nov 21, 03:54
So win 11 is supposed to be the most secure OS that Microsoft has made, it even has that TPM thingy majig. So what would happen if you released a Malware virus from 2016 onto it, well let's see what happen when Memz is introduced to it, I mean the virus was released around the middle of 2016, so you would expect the most modern and secure OS to zap it straight away, right. :D
What passwords, accounts, data, etc. were compromised by this pseudo malware?

To the uninitiated, it certainly looks like a virus. But everything it does, users can do themselves without admin permissions. You've fallen victim to hollywood type theatrics.

Now, if that thing gained access to data or areas of the system a standard user account cannot, then your security mockery may have merit. Likewise, if it attempted to propagate itself to other systems, again, cause for concern. But none of that happened.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by felter » Mon, 1. Nov 21, 05:07

It was just a bit of fun, although Memz is an actual virus and can totally screw up your computer if you get infected with the wrong version of it or take it too far. Originally it was made as a prank that ended up in the wrong hands and was engineered as a proper trojan virus. But nonetheless, Win 11 should have blocked it. By the way you can easily download the virus if you want to use it for a prank, but be warned, take it too far, and it will destroy the computer's OS.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 1. Nov 21, 05:29

The program the dude was running was clearly not a real virus, which is my point. The variant that IS actual malware that injects code into the boot sector would absolutely not work on Windows 11 since Windows 11 boots via UEFI only and not MBR. Furthermore, the boot loader is protected by the Secure boot and TPM features, that would help prevent malware from executing at boot up. link for more information.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Wed, 3. Nov 21, 09:16

Just updated my HP Envy laptop and I can't really say that there is much difference. Difference icons and typeface and a few bits of the UI have been "modernised" but it doesn't feel much different (especially if you left align the taskbar). Not tried some of the "new" stuff yet.

Edit - So the laptop will only connect via 2.4g wifi now! If I force it to connect to 5g (turn off 2.4hg) it connects but reports "no internet". Marvellous ;)
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