W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

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Vertigo 7
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 17:22

They do indeed and most companies have a refresh cycle, usually aligned with warranty or lease terms, to replace end user systems every few years.

Besides, you're likely not gonna see businesses jump on Windows 11 until 2023, at the very earliest.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by matthewfarmery » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 17:43

By businesses, they might have computers that are both old and new. especailly if they are self employed. From some of the comments I have read on a few videos. Those with intel boards are going to suffer the most.

The main problem is, if your CPU isn't 8th gen or newer, it will not have the TPM chip period. Instead there maybe a place on the MB for the chip, (depending on MB) but here is also the thing. if that MB is old, then its a very high chance that the MB manufacturer will not have the TPM module in stock. So for many Intel base systems, they will be out of luck. if AMD ryzen 2 or newer. You will be fine. As its possible to to enable something similar in the MB BIOS.

For intel, You can enable something called PTT, which is similar, I just checked my MB BIOS, and don't see anything called that. So yeah, a lot of intel systems will be dead in the water unless they keep to older windows. OR MS backtracks.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 18:16

Oh psh. People whine every single time MS releases a new OS and their dinosaur computer won't run it. By the time Windows 10 reaches EOL, 8th gen intel systems will be up to 8 years old, well past typical replacement periods for most users.

But hey, good news there. If you have a digital license for your OS (IE, tied to a MS account you own), when you do eventually get a new machine, you can transfer the license to your new hardware and get a free upgrade to Windows 11.

Just like CDPR was totally fine despite the predictions of doom, so too will be MS.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 19:22

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 18:16
Oh psh. People whine every single time MS releases a new OS [...]
Viewn from a comfortable distance of a stable OS, that seems so incredibly funny to me, to watch people perform that ritual each and every time since the earliest versions and MS just ignore their user's complaints. Instead of consequently walking away many people stay paralized like the poor little mouse about to be eaten by the cat, if you guys allow me the analogy. Bon appetit, MS !

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 19:50

BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 19:22
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 18:16
Oh psh. People whine every single time MS releases a new OS [...]
Viewn from a comfortable distance of a stable OS, that seems so incredibly funny to me, to watch people perform that ritual each and every time since the earliest versions and MS just ignore their user's complaints. Instead of consequently walking away people stay paralized like the poor little mouse about to be eaten by the cat, if you guys allow me the analogy. Bon appetit, MS !
Why do you believe MS is obligated to support hardware that is discontinued by the manufacturers, and has been before their new OS even hits the market? Most people won't even be impacted by that exclusion. So, some dude still has a 286 running Windows 3.1 and he should be able to run Windows 11 too? Clearly there has to be a cut off, and why not let that cut off be at the current hardware being manufactured and actively supported by said manufacturers?

But that's from my view of a stable windows build. I can't even remember the last time I experienced a system crash, at least one that wasn't due to hardware failure. But hey, eebcac is a way of life for some people.
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BaronVerde
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:22

Nonsense, I did neither say or imply that, I agreed with your assertion that people always whine but in the end surrender.

Quite frankly, gamers may not be aware, some applications still run on old hardware, some 'murrican official stuff still on IBM PCs and Cobol, To widen people's views a bit, there's also a lot of legacy stuff on last milleniums hardware written in Fortran/Cobol in finance and banking that gamers aren't aware of. There was a call last year by IBM to the Opoen Source community for programmers to help comb through old code because apparently they lacked the manpower, and the knowledge. You have less problems with proven stuff than allways running after the latest fashion, though one might eventually run past the point where legacy stuff becomes a burden. But that has nothing to do with fancy gamer stuff. Systems are rockstable because they are not changed or adapted to every newfangled piffle.

Apart from that, as long as we can, I choose not to surrender my privacy and control over my machine to the cloud, MS or the likes. It is not at you to criticize or ridicule it.

Reading up in the technical help forum here (and else where) there are Windows OS crashes, freezes, hangs, becomes unresponsive, blocks input, etc every other day.
Last edited by BaronVerde on Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:38

BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:22
Apart from that, as long as we can, I choose not to surrender my privacy and control over my machine to the cloud, MS or the likes. It is not at you to criticize or ridicule it.
Well you be sure to keep that in mind the next time you use Google for anything or shop on Amazon. Surely you wouldn't use either of those if you're that worried about your privacy and not just looking for excuses to crap on MS.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:46

I don't use Google (though the logic is not in the front end any more, so it doesn't really matter) and rarely shop on Amazon (books and videos, twice this year so far). And you're right, having a credit card means the shopping habits are scrutinized. That's unfortunately unavoidable, but a different quality than taking control over the private machine by a proprietary company.

Which is avoidable if people just want to, we don't have to submit 'cause there are less malicious alternatives, that's my main point ;-)
Last edited by BaronVerde on Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:49

BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:46
I don't use Google (though the logic is not in the front end any more, so it doesn't really matter) and rarely shop on Amazon (a handful of times a year, books and vdieos). And you're right, having a credit card means the shopping habits are scrutinized. That's unfortunately unavoidable, but a different quality than taking control over the private machine. Which is avoidable if people just want to, we don't have to submit 'cause there are alternatives, that's my main point ;-)
If we don't have to "submit 'cause there are alternatives", then what's justification for your argument to submit to your alternative?
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by BaronVerde » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:53

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:49
If we don't have to "submit 'cause there are alternatives", then what's justification for your argument to submit to your alternative?
You know the answer, don't you ?

Anyway I am out. You're not my opponent and I value many of your posts, but just an argument for the sake of an argument costs me too much time right now. Nice evening !

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:03

BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:53
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:49
If we don't have to "submit 'cause there are alternatives", then what's justification for your argument to submit to your alternative?
You know the answer, don't you ?

Anyway I am out. You're not my opponent and I value many of your posts, but just an argument for the sake of an argument costs me too much time right now. Nice evening !
I couldn't possibly know what's in your mind. I have some assumptions that center around large assumptions on your part, but that's as far as I'll go with that.

What first hand experience do you have with Windows? A lot of the information you've alluded to are things I see from internet bloggers that don't actually use the OS.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:09

Let's talk about the topic software and not other posters thanks.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by greypanther » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:44

OK, all very interesting, but it's not really helping, at least not me. :) :wink:

I have looked in the BIOS and can see nothing obvious, don't know where to look really, any suggestions? The CPU is an intel i9-9900K, so not exactly that old, but still discontinued. :roll: The motherboard is an Asus one, forget the number, but it seems I need to drop Asus an email to try and find out which way to go.

I was hoping this PC would last beyond 2025 to be honest, my last one, which is still running fine on Windows 7, ( not on the internet! )is about 10+ years old. Ah well no point worrying about it yet I suppose, perhaps start saving for the next PC though...
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:56

greypanther wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:44
OK, all very interesting, but it's not really helping, at least not me. :) :wink:

I have looked in the BIOS and can see nothing obvious, don't know where to look really, any suggestions? The CPU is an intel i9-9900K, so not exactly that old, but still discontinued. :roll: The motherboard is an Asus one, forget the number, but it seems I need to drop Asus an email to try and find out which way to go.

I was hoping this PC would last beyond 2025 to be honest, my last one, which is still running fine on Windows 7, ( not on the internet! )is about 10+ years old. Ah well no point worrying about it yet I suppose, perhaps start saving for the next PC though...
Look for a setting called "PTT" (intel chipsets) or "fTPM" (AMD chipsets).

Btw the I9-9900k is still very much in production. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en ... 0-ghz.html Their EOL is set for dec this year.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Mailo » Sun, 27. Jun 21, 23:01

I personally hold no allegiance to any OS, though the last time I installed Linux on my machine was ~1996. The only reason why I use Windows is because 95%+ of my Steam library and 80%+ of my off-Steam games require it. If / when that changes I'll take a look at all available OS and pick the one that fits best. But currently, that list of suitable OS only has one entry.
BaronVerde wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 21:22
Apart from that, as long as we can, I choose not to surrender my privacy and control over my machine to the cloud, MS or the likes. It is not at you to criticize or ridicule it.

Reading up in the technical help forum here (and else where) there are Windows OS crashes, freezes, hangs, becomes unresponsive, blocks input, etc every other day.
For the vast majority of users though switching from Windows to Linux would switch that surrender of privacy and control over the machine from MS to whoever made the Linux distribution, as both are equally black box-y to them. And while I agree with you about the "ridicule" part, it is kind of the point of a discussion board to also criticize.

I do realize this is somewhat of a chicken - egg problem ... more people switching would lead to more software / games / drivers being ported or created for Linux ... but you cannot expect companies to give up multiple years of revenue to switch to a different OS for no (to their view) discernable benefit.
And I will not do without my Steam library, especially as doing without would be nothing more than an empty gesture.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by red assassin » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 00:15

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:56
greypanther wrote:
Sun, 27. Jun 21, 22:44
OK, all very interesting, but it's not really helping, at least not me. :) :wink:

I have looked in the BIOS and can see nothing obvious, don't know where to look really, any suggestions? The CPU is an intel i9-9900K, so not exactly that old, but still discontinued. :roll: The motherboard is an Asus one, forget the number, but it seems I need to drop Asus an email to try and find out which way to go.

I was hoping this PC would last beyond 2025 to be honest, my last one, which is still running fine on Windows 7, ( not on the internet! )is about 10+ years old. Ah well no point worrying about it yet I suppose, perhaps start saving for the next PC though...
Look for a setting called "PTT" (intel chipsets) or "fTPM" (AMD chipsets).
I found this screenshot of an Asus Intel BIOS, though I don't know how consistent they are between devices:
https://www.legitreviews.com/wp-content ... 45x484.jpg
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by Vertigo 7 » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 00:45

That's wot it looks like in mine. If he has an ASUS, should be right there.

BTW, don't be alarmed if your PC power cycles a couple of times after enabling that setting. Seems to be necessary to enabled certain parts of the firmware.
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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 09:45

Gigabyte's Intel Z170 chipset-based motherboard (6th gen CPU, aka Skylake) released 2015 (latest "BIOS" 2018) has both a header for physical TPM module and Intel Platform Trust Technology (PTT). The option is in "Peripherals" tab.

Gigabyte's Intel Z87 chipset-based motherboard (4th gen CPU, aka Haswell) released 2013 (latest "BIOS" 2014) has only a header for physical TPM module. No PTT.


*) "BIOS" as both really have Unified Extensible Firmware Interface (UEFI), not Basic Input/Output System. The old acronym has stuck.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 10:03

I'm lucky that by 10.2025 I'll be around that part of a cycle where I'll be looking for replacement of both my laptops (one will be 7-years old and other will be 5-years old).
Hopefully by then W11 will get out of all infancy stage quirks.

One thing I'm concer is that Microsoft meme that every second Windows is crap, and MS seems to be unable to break the meme.

IMO it would be best if MS would keep support last two systems and decomission it only, when third one is released.
I upgraded from Win7 to Win10 (and from XP to Win7 before), skipping Win8 and Vista altogether - many of my friends complained alot about them, so I'm happy I skipped.

If Win11 would be crap, I'd wish to do the same, but it might be impossible, if they stop support Win10 and get into Win11 only.

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Re: W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

Post by mr.WHO » Mon, 28. Jun 21, 11:40

BTW I found this at the bottom of Win11 wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_11

In a separate support document, Microsoft has now confirmed that TPM chip is not required upon approval from the company.[71] Additionally, users will be able to bypass the TPM requirement by modifying their registry or installation media.[72]

[71]
https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/2 ... thout-tpm/

[72]
https://www.windowslatest.com/2021/06/2 ... quirement/


Both things doesn't seems like set in stone, so this still might change either way.

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